Zui Wu Dao

It's not immature, it's about revenge, pride, bonds etc. just go read some xianxia novels and you will get the gist of it.

Also, waht you say up there applies more to people that come from a family with power, their kids are more likely be spoiled and act more this way.

Getting stuck up on revenge and prides over lives is what i see as immature. As in, not mature enough to be able to swallow the pride, to forgive and forget, or to know that someone's life is more than simply just a nuisance even if its someone that you have no feeling towards, amongst other "immature" things.

If a character lacks those quality that defines a mature person then he is immature, not as an insult but in the form of a description.

Manchild part is an insult though. "Yer an adult, grow up and act like a good one!"

So villains in xianxia are all immature manchild-ren? wasting time and lives on grudges, Is that a mandatory "enemy" characteristic for xianxia?

Still, I'd definitely prefer mc to not stoop to that same level despite being in xianxia. D:

[If MC does, the series better be damn well engaging or i wouldn't be following in first place.]

 

Btw thanks for this series. I'm quite liking it.

It's not immature, it's about revenge, pride, bonds etc. just go read some xianxia novels and you will get the gist of it.

Also, waht you say up there applies more to people that come from a family with power, their kids are more likely be spoiled and act more this way.

In xianxia, if they don't like you they kill you or make you suffer, that's all really. If they can't kill you right of the bat, be it 10 years later or 20 years(Time doesn't matter), they will still seek you out and kill you.

So villains in xianxia are all immature manchild-ren? wasting time and lives on grudges, Is that a mandatory "enemy" characteristic for xianxia?

Still, I'd definitely prefer mc to not stoop to that same level despite being in xianxia. D:

[If MC does, the series better be damn well engaging or i wouldn't be following in first place.]

Btw thanks for this series. I'm quite liking it.

Spoiler

 

That would've been more convincing to me if you based it on your knowledge of this specific author, and not xianxia in general. Like Gen Urobuchi a.k.a "Urobutcher" and his wtf-endings, Studio SHAFT for their rather.. flexible artstyles, etc. Even then!

That still doesn't warrant you calling the logic of "letting enemy live" flawed though! Not when its based on your knowledge of fantasy comics. Unless you meant it being flawed just in xianxia universe, there may be some validity in that.

 

And that was the initial question. Why do you think "letting enemy live" was a flawed logic or argument, was it based on your knowledge specifically of xianxia genre? Do you think it also applies to reality?

 

Also, i did abit of goog- researching on "xianxia" because i keep calling chinese comic-ishs manhua. Apparently it literally means "immortal hero" and its based more on taoism or buddhism than just martial art. Meaning the doctrines of those religions also have an impact. Being a buddhist myself i can say my personal "moral standards" isn't that unrelated since... well ive been influenced by buddhism. Combining that and the "immortal hero", him letting enemies live was the right choice imo.

 

Butting in on cheese's reply, if someone's "secretly" crossdressing it MEANS they dont want to crossdress non-secretly cos of reasons. Fear of being shamed could be one of the reasons.

And killing scenario... you cant feel anything if you're killed. Cos u ded. >_>

Death's not a deterrent, its elimination. Fear in the face of death may be a deterrent as a threat but its "worthless" when they don't live to feel the effect of deterrence.

In xianxia, if they don't like you they kill you or make you suffer, that's all really. If they can't kill you right of the bat, be it 10 years later or 20 years(Time doesn't matter), they will still seek you out and kill you.

I spilled my drink when you've said that the religious doctrine play a role. Because it could not be further from the truth.

The Xianxia genre is 99.8% pure power/revenge fantasy.

TVTrope lied to me!

That was a fast release.

Off-topics

Spoiler

Also, i did abit of goog- researching on "xianxia" because i keep calling chinese comic-ishs manhua. Apparently it literally means "immortal hero" and its based more on taoism or buddhism than just martial art. Meaning the doctrines of those religions also have an impact. Being a buddhist myself i can say my personal "moral standards" isn't that unrelated since... well ive been influenced by buddhism. Combining that and the "immortal hero", him letting enemies live was the right choice imo.

It's cool if you dont wanna reply. You did say you want to be done with this.

That was a fast release.

Off-topics

It's cool if you dont wanna reply. You did say you want to be done with this.

Hahahah the hype and cliffhanger is real ! Thanks for the chapter !

These cliffhangers common on manhuas are really a pain, at least the RAWs go up to ch47.

Ehh? Death is a terrible deterrent! People do deadly things ALL the time. Seriously. Google "Is threat of death a good deterrant"

 

 

It's worthless as a deterrent. Now shame. Man, shame can motivate some serious behavior.

shame. well shame is still a powerful weapon but it depends on the shame. would a guy who secretly wear's women's clothes truly suffer if he's forced to wear them in public? will he truly fear the effects?
 

as for death. well, it also depends on the situation. killers often have a few screws loose anyway so not surprising if they don't fear it. but a robber? drunk driver? drug dealer? what about them?

@yoruno,

i can see this will never go anywhere. so i'll simply say this and be done.
 

my outlook on the situation is based on my knowledge of the genre of this story, xianxia. those guys did exactly what i knew they would. in fact it would have been a miracle if they just let it go. i've seen this happen plenty of times before. so to you it might seem like there was no need to kill them but to me it was like reading a giant billboard saying 'kill them or you'll suffer for it.' of course MC as plot armor so he won't die because of it or be crippled, but he did get punched around a bit, and has a new enemy because of it.

Yeah cuz killing is hard.My life over anyone else that's the right mindset when you do it.

Anyway great chapter ! MC luck in action again ! +1 cute girl in the party!

anyways im done with this topic, it's gotten boring.

It turns out that whatever culture you are from, murder is hard on human beings. It propagates suffering on the part of the killer and the victim.  Comics tend to be pretty cavalier about it, but real people continue to have nightmares for the rest of their lives.

PTSD's a b***h. You don't even need to have killed or been killed by someone, just going through the attempts can potentially screw you over for life. =[
 

[spoiler] I feel this discussion isn't about choices anymore, but about morals...anyway, it's not about playing god, i frankly doubt anyone think about control over one's life in such a situation. And thing such as morals are defined by how various factors affect one's mentality. in a society with solid laws like in the majority of our world nowadays, it's normal to have one standard of morals. in another places/times, there was no problem in killing people. even today, some people know it's a crime to kill, but have no problem in killing - in our eyes they are wrong, in their eyes, they are not, for their morals are not the same as ours. In this manhua, you can see those two brothers who have grown in their bandit clan. they may actually not be morally bad, cuz for them, there's no problem in "play god". that place doesn't seem to have a universal set of laws in the city/country/world, it's a place where the strong prevail over the weak. in such a place it may not matter at all if the MC kills or not his enemies, it may be morally wrong in his clan (actually, i doubt it would be, given there was almost no real problem in the girl's sister almost killing him, and the old man killed that bandit clan master's dad), but it will not be morally bad, nor good, it would be just him killing his enemies for whatever reason, even if there's no reason for such. you can see in this chapter that leader guy said he just went for the kill for the lulz and the MC was more annoyed about not having any reason for this waste of time than about the other one being "bad". in the end, in that world to kill is not really a sin, and they don't even waste time thinking about the other's hopes, rights and "playing god". they just kill or don't kill according to their own reasons and mentality. the MC prolly did not kill them because he did not really see any reason to do so. he did not even think about what would happen if he did kill them or not.

TL;DR: thing's like "bad" and "good" are defined by one's morals, which may be different for some people. for you: it's bad to kill defeated enemies or "play god" with them, for others: not. in the end, things like "right/good" or "wrong/bad" are all about perspective, and in a unbiased and neutral, logic world, it just doesn't really matter, for there's only act, reason and consequence. if you look in a perspective without morals, from a logic standpoint, killing them may have made his life easier. if it would be right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

What you are talking about is called moral relativism. It's a cop out. Of course if everything is relative to culture and situation, there is no ability for someone not in that exact situation to make a judgement on it. In reality, peoples actions have consequences. While I personally think a coherent and complete system of moral rules is impossible, mathematically impossible, it does not excuse us from considering the effects of actions.

It turns out that whatever culture you are from, murder is hard on human beings. It propagates suffering on the part of the killer and the victim.  Comics tend to be pretty cavalier about it, but real people continue to have nightmares for the rest of their lives.

meh, i bet if we did start killing drunk drivers, there'd be a lot less of them. death is a powerful deterrent after-all. but anyway, all im saying is you're focusing too much on the moral aspect.  all im saying is the right decision would have been to kill those guys. morally wrong? maybe. but still would have been better than letting the trash live, to cause him grief later.
 

i wouldn't be so black and white about this in a more 'civilized' environment then it would be more complicated. but in the situation of this manhua, they live in a more dog eat dog world, where the strong survive and the weak are trampled upon. it's fine to take a moral high road, but expect to die a quick death if you don't have plot armor.

 

i also happen to be tired of the cockroach scenario, manga does enough of that.

 

anyways im done with this topic, it's gotten boring.

Ehh? Death is a terrible deterrent! People do deadly things ALL the time. Seriously. Google "Is threat of death a good deterrant"

It's worthless as a deterrent. Now shame. Man, shame can motivate some serious behavior.

Sadly not an update.

It's fine that you fine it funny. Yes i AM saying its ridiclous to kill someone because they can get you killed in the future.

By that logic i should kill drivers that drink cos i cross roads a lot and some drunk driver just might run me over, and i would have no way to prevent him from drinkdriving.

the manhua/manhwa comparison was in reply for netcuca. the two has generally distinct stereotype for MC.

meh, i bet if we did start killing drunk drivers, there'd be a lot less of them. death is a powerful deterrent after-all. but anyway, all im saying is you're focusing too much on the moral aspect.  all im saying is the right decision would have been to kill those guys. morally wrong? maybe. but still would have been better than letting the trash live, to cause him grief later.
 

i wouldn't be so black and white about this in a more 'civilized' environment then it would be more complicated. but in the situation of this manhua, they live in a more dog eat dog world, where the strong survive and the weak are trampled upon. it's fine to take a moral high road, but expect to die a quick death if you don't have plot armor.

i also happen to be tired of the cockroach scenario, manga does enough of that.

anyways im done with this topic, it's gotten boring.

It's fine that you fine it funny. Yes i AM saying its ridiclous to kill someone because they can get you killed in the future.

By that logic i should kill drivers that drink cos i cross roads a lot and some drunk driver just might run me over, and i would have no way to prevent him from drinkdriving.

the manhua/manhwa comparison was in reply for netcuca. the two has generally distinct stereotype for MC.

you forgot [/spoiler]

Quite bad at trolling.Maybe another time.

If I was bad at trolling, these things from 2 years ago shouldn't exist.

https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/9375-needed-taggenre-suggestions/

https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/13860-webtoon-long-form-comic-category-for-search/

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/10478-list-of-community-suggestions-we-are-going-over/

They're the entire reason we had a webtoon tag in Batoto, so go blame them.

clip of above link:

• The genre "Webtoon" as there are many webtoons and how they differ from traditional manga/manhwa.

(I don't bother with the Tag system when I read on Batoto, nor do I touch them at all since I registered here, but if the system is setted there by Batoto, what can I do about it?)

Hey guys, I made this fan page of Zui Wu Dao on facebook. https://www.facebook.com/zuiwudao

I always post chapters from bato.to. Hope it's allowed to post my fan page here. 

Like us and spread the word around!

Spoiler

For one, its not that credible to lump all kinds of MC under one moral compass, its going to differ between each authors authors and series. Korean manhwa in general are rather heavy and drama-oriented and many of em has that strange moral standing like you said but.. for one this one's a chinese manhua. They are generally not THAT extreme. Sides, You simply just cant categorize the MC of "A fairy tale for the demon lord" with this or "Hataraku maosama!" as having same moral standing. And yes some people wouldn't reflect, but that is for him to decide not you, and it still doesn't give you the justification to end his life. The moment you yourself are no longer in danger self defense no longer applies, killing the perpetrator just to make sure makes as much as sense as removing a glass off the table so you wont bump into it. I call it paranoia personally.
In this series, the kid instilled fear into the guys with his trap and death threat and that was enough. It shows too, they gave up trying to harm the kid themselves and egg their leader on him instead.
Sure it may be irresponsible to "let the evil roam free so he can hurt others" but the MC's goal isnt to be a hero and it definitely isn't his duty or responsibility to "kill the bad guys". You said it yourself, survival first. Killing bad guy is not an act of survival, keeping yourself alive is.

Killing is a last resort if the threat still exists, but a person that lost the intent to harm you does not pose a threat at that time.

Killing such person to remove future risk is, on top of paranoia, simply trying to play god. passing judgement on someone's life based on your own decision despite not knowing anything about about him apart from what he tried to do to you, discarding his life and future for your own benefit.

Ironically that is also a common motivation for generic bad guys to kill. "you're a nuisance to me so you need to die so you cant annoy me anymore, forever."

[spoiler] I feel this discussion isn't about choices anymore, but about morals...anyway, it's not about playing god, i frankly doubt anyone think about control over one's life in such a situation. And thing such as morals are defined by how various factors affect one's mentality. in a society with solid laws like in the majority of our world nowadays, it's normal to have one standard of morals. in another places/times, there was no problem in killing people. even today, some people know it's a crime to kill, but have no problem in killing - in our eyes they are wrong, in their eyes, they are not, for their morals are not the same as ours. In this manhua, you can see those two brothers who have grown in their bandit clan. they may actually not be morally bad, cuz for them, there's no problem in "play god". that place doesn't seem to have a universal set of laws in the city/country/world, it's a place where the strong prevail over the weak. in such a place it may not matter at all if the MC kills or not his enemies, it may be morally wrong in his clan (actually, i doubt it would be, given there was almost no real problem in the girl's sister almost killing him, and the old man killed that bandit clan master's dad), but it will not be morally bad, nor good, it would be just him killing his enemies for whatever reason, even if there's no reason for such. you can see in this chapter that leader guy said he just went for the kill for the lulz and the MC was more annoyed about not having any reason for this waste of time than about the other one being "bad". in the end, in that world to kill is not really a sin, and they don't even waste time thinking about the other's hopes, rights and "playing god". they just kill or don't kill according to their own reasons and mentality. the MC prolly did not kill them because he did not really see any reason to do so. he did not even think about what would happen if he did kill them or not.

TL;DR: thing's like "bad" and "good" are defined by one's morals, which may be different for some people. for you: it's bad to kill defeated enemies or "play god" with them, for others: not. in the end, things like "right/good" or "wrong/bad" are all about perspective, and in a unbiased and neutral, logic world, it just doesn't really matter, for there's only act, reason and consequence. if you look in a perspective without morals, from a logic standpoint, killing them may have made his life easier. if it would be right or wrong, it doesn't matter.

20 bucks says MC gets teh soul stone.

Wow I'm so glad that the girl didn't rescue him at the last page but rather the soul stone. If the girl woud've rescued him I'd cringe. Thanks OSTNT & Jaimini's box~

Spoiler

For one, its not that credible to lump all kinds of MC under one moral compass, its going to differ between each authors authors and series. Korean manhwa in general are rather heavy and drama-oriented and many of em has that strange moral standing like you said but.. for one this one's a chinese manhua. They are generally not THAT extreme. Sides, You simply just cant categorize the MC of "A fairy tale for the demon lord" with this or "Hataraku maosama!" as having same moral standing. And yes some people wouldn't reflect, but that is for him to decide not you, and it still doesn't give you the justification to end his life. The moment you yourself are no longer in danger self defense no longer applies, killing the perpetrator just to make sure makes as much as sense as removing a glass off the table so you wont bump into it. I call it paranoia personally.
In this series, the kid instilled fear into the guys with his trap and death threat and that was enough. It shows too, they gave up trying to harm the kid themselves and egg their leader on him instead.
Sure it may be irresponsible to "let the evil roam free so he can hurt others" but the MC's goal isnt to be a hero and it definitely isn't his duty or responsibility to "kill the bad guys". You said it yourself, survival first. Killing bad guy is not an act of survival, keeping yourself alive is.

Killing is a last resort if the threat still exists, but a person that lost the intent to harm you does not pose a threat at that time.

Killing such person to remove future risk is, on top of paranoia, simply trying to play god. passing judgement on someone's life based on your own decision despite not knowing anything about about him apart from what he tried to do to you, discarding his life and future for your own benefit.

Ironically that is also a common motivation for generic bad guys to kill. "you're a nuisance to me so you need to die so you cant annoy me anymore, forever."

   I don't really know why he choose to let them live. ......

......When you're a weak lone wolf in a world like that (without a set of laws) It's more about survival first than what is right or wrong.

I dont see how his argument is flawed. Not killing them also means they have a chance to reflect.
I could go on more about why killing is never the best choice but as far as this series goes, some characters are shallow evil for the sake of plot so... MC kid, good guy, no killing or murder. Beasts dont count.

   I don't really know why he choose to let them live. These manhuas have main characters with a strange moral compass that makes them a "good" person that have no real problems with things like killing and generally go with the flow and choose what they want at the time, without truly going by things like "killing is wrong, even if i had let him live after his 7th attempt at my life" and are likely to kill some dozens of bad guys in a moment and let some live for no reason at another. About reflecting,  there are people that simply doesn't want to reflect and will probably try again in another time/way or go try with another person.

 For some killing a person who tried to kill you and may try to get you killed is still wrong. For others (incluiding me) it's not really the right choice to let them keep going with their lives like nothing happened. Not if you give them a choice and they still try to get you killed. So the right choice in that case was to at least somehow prevent them from doing anything to prejudice direct or indirectly him. Even if the only way was killing them. If he was The king of the hill he could do what he wanted, but he's still too weak and is not within friend at the moment. When you're a weak lone wolf in a world like that (without a set of laws) It's more about survival first than what is right or wrong.