Dungeon ni Deai wo Motomeru no wa Machigatte Iru Darou ka Gaiden - Sword Oratoria

slight correction. its BEST to be able to fight monsters of similar or slightly higher level than you are and you did put a good point about this series having game-like dungeon system but there's a major difference between this series and a game.

 

Its been established before in the main series that it is possible for much higher level monster to appear at places where low level people are gathering. it clearly has been shown before and it will be shown again later on that Bell does NOT always have the luxury of choosing his enemy. In that situation, Hestia Knife is clearly lacking. In that situation, a weapon with static yet high power is definitely better for short term of use (The minotaur's great sword for one) though it remain just that, short term or even one time use.

Minor detail I feel the need to point out. Slightly higher level should not be fought. A minotaur is only level 2. The highest level adventurer is still only level 7. The correct description would be slightly stronger.

An onion knight may certainly become the strongest at the end point but it doesn't not start out as the strongest
and be injured or even defeated at any point of the journey.
As long the onion knight does not die and does give up, it can still continue on.

That's why the loli doesn't understand the whole point of the knife and can only see the end result yet forgets
This is the story of the weakest becoming the strongest, not a story of how the strong become overpowered.

Chapter 32 make me think Aiz and her parent are from a clan that used to be strong but was destroy by some incident, maybe Zeus or Hera's clan, that is the reason Zeus adopted Bell as his grandson.

Its been established before in the main series that it is possible for much higher level monster to appear at places where low level people are gathering. it clearly has been shown before

 

I mean, it's the very first scene of the series really.

Not only Bell but any member of the Hestia familia(although he is the only member now) and yes that it grows with the user. But the story is RPG based and dungeon system which would suggest that you will need to fight monsters with the same level as you are or a bit higher. Any more than that would mean death so using Hestia knife would be most beneficial because:

1. You won't need to change weapon every time you get stronger since it's ATK scales with the user, thus allowing you to dedicate your income on other items like armor, potions, etc.

2. It is sufficient because the ATK rate is always enough for the monsters you fight since as I said before, the monsters are equal or a bit higher than the user so it will always deliver the desired result

3. It won't break because as long as the user can handle the enemies, then that would mean that the knife can also handle the amount of damage it can have during a battle

4. And yes, an ATK 80+ weapon is really good but you won't be fighting monsters that high yet so having a weapon like that would not be cost-efficient for a starting adventurer like Bell.

slight correction. its BEST to be able to fight monsters of similar or slightly higher level than you are and you did put a good point about this series having game-like dungeon system but there's a major difference between this series and a game.

 

Its been established before in the main series that it is possible for much higher level monster to appear at places where low level people are gathering. it clearly has been shown before and it will be shown again later on that Bell does NOT always have the luxury of choosing his enemy. In that situation, Hestia Knife is clearly lacking. In that situation, a weapon with static yet high power is definitely better for short term of use (The minotaur's great sword for one) though it remain just that, short term or even one time use.

Its difference between type of weapon. remember that Hestia Knife is the type of weapon that works ONLY for Bell and one that grows stronger as Bell gets stronger. That gives 2 point of interest on the knife:

 

1. if anyone else but Bell is to use it, it will be no better than a butter knife

2. It won't be an "Exceptionally impressive" weapon until Bell is stronger. You can think on which one is better between a static Atk +80 weapon and Weapon that gain the same Atk stat as your level with the cap level of 100. Eventually, the latter will surpass the former but it won't be until the user is Level 81 and above.

Not only Bell but any member of the Hestia familia(although he is the only member now) and yes that it grows with the user. But the story is RPG based and dungeon system which would suggest that you will need to fight monsters with the same level as you are or a bit higher. Any more than that would mean death so using Hestia knife would be most beneficial because:

1. You won't need to change weapon every time you get stronger since it's ATK scales with the user, thus allowing you to dedicate your income on other items like armor, potions, etc.

2. It is sufficient because the ATK rate is always enough for the monsters you fight since as I said before, the monsters are equal or a bit higher than the user so it will always deliver the desired result

3. It won't break because as long as the user can handle the enemies, then that would mean that the knife can also handle the amount of damage it can have during a battle

4. And yes, an ATK 80+ weapon is really good but you won't be fighting monsters that high yet so having a weapon like that would not be cost-efficient for a starting adventurer like Bell.

I said too much but in short,

I angry with you guys said that Hestia's Knife is "assumed trash weapon"

while it is one of the best weapon out there.

Its difference between type of weapon. remember that Hestia Knife is the type of weapon that works ONLY for Bell and one that grows stronger as Bell gets stronger. That gives 2 point of interest on the knife:

 

1. if anyone else but Bell is to use it, it will be no better than a butter knife

2. It won't be an "Exceptionally impressive" weapon until Bell is stronger. You can think on which one is better between a static Atk +80 weapon and Weapon that gain the same Atk stat as your level with the cap level of 100. Eventually, the latter will surpass the former but it won't be until the user is Level 81 and above.

This story is pretty good, but I just can't bring myself to like Lefiya as a character. To me she's the weak link of this manga.

Cant say that she is my favorite but a like her, she is funny to watch, but I get what you might dont like in her she ihas atitudes that are a little irritating.

Wait, was that a death flag for Finn?!  There at the beginning?

This story is pretty good, but I just can't bring myself to like Lefiya as a character. To me she's the weak link of this manga.

Because she have almost started on the path of Explosions.

you know what that means....

 

Time to only master 1 skill, strongest skill.

Maybe you already knew.

Anime confirm. April 2017

Why are Lefiya reaction faces the best?

Because she have almost started on the path of Explosions.

I said too much but in short,

I angry with you guys said that Hestia's Knife is "assumed trash weapon"

while it is one of the best weapon out there.

Last I checked, people don't normally need to do a full body pivot to take advantage of angular momentum to cut tofu. Maybe I should have studied in the school of culinary Kendo or something?
 

Or maybe the manga is just taking its cues directly from the LN source material, where the powered-up Mino was actually smart and cunning enough to treat the Hestia Knife with extra caution, and Bell only managed to use it to take off it's arm after deliberately tricking it so he could finally get a single clean hit while the Mino was caught off-guard.
 

You kind of just blew up your own point there.

Yes, Bell can basically use the Hestia Knife as an unbreakable knife to block (well, technically it would be "parrying") attacks... Which means that he has to use another weapon to counter-attack while he's using it to block!

 

If the Tofu (or any soft material like mattress or toilet paper) is even bigger than your body, try anyway if you can cut it with knife in 1 hit without try swing like Bell. Even with Tofu is as big as a head, I need use 2 hands and adding my own weight to cut it in 1 hit.

 

And Thank you for your info ( I really mean it), I don't read the Novel so I don't know it. That really helpful info.

Even a smart and power up Minotaurus is afraid of Hestia's knife, the knife that the other guys assumed as trash weapon.

 

And I said use it to block/parry because It can not be broken, and you can counter-attack after parry with same weapon, not really need use other weapon.

You just justified everything I have said earlier. Bravo!
I see you don't even understand the obvious theme of the weapon at all.

Here, let me help you again. Look at the attachment.

Spoiler

 

yeah, I quote that picture just for your info. your (not too strong, not too weak) comment.

I thought you just read only it and assume it weakest / trash weapon and don't read the cheating part.

That weakest / trash weapon that you guys assumed.

 

 

You don't see the Goddess said that was a cheating weapon ?

And how he can easy cut Minotaurus with assumed trash weapon ? Even other weapon is useless.

That Minotaurus to Bell (because how how level Bell is) is like Udaeus (an dungeon raid boss level) to Ais , just simple kill him enough to impress all gods to level up.

The loli's special. It eats meteor garlic and meteor spice

It only become trash/weak when not in Bell's hand but in Bell's hand it can cut Minotaurus like tofu.
He just never remember use it (in his left hand) to hit the Minotaurus but use the trash knife his right hand and fire spell or steal Minotaurus Trash Greatsword.

Spoiler

Last I checked, people don't normally need to do a full body pivot to take advantage of angular momentum to cut tofu. Maybe I should have studied in the school of culinary Kendo or something?
 

And if you read the main series again, you will see he use a lot of useless attack even though his knife can cut the Minotaurus but he never bother continue using it (because author want an epic battle).

Or maybe the manga is just taking its cues directly from the LN source material, where the powered-up Mino was actually smart and cunning enough to treat the Hestia Knife with extra caution, and Bell only managed to use it to take off it's arm after deliberately tricking it so he could finally get a single clean hit while the Mino was caught off-guard.
 

He can also use it to block, it's unbreakable knife.

You kind of just blew up your own point there.

Yes, Bell can basically use the Hestia Knife as an unbreakable knife to block (well, technically it would be "parrying") attacks... Which means that he has to use another weapon to counter-attack while he's using it to block!

It only become trash/weak when not in Bell's hand but in Bell's hand it can cut Minotaurus like tofu.
He just never remember use it (in his left hand) to hit the Minotaurus but use the trash knife his right hand and fire spell or steal Minotaurus Trash Greatsword.

Spoiler

 
And if you read the main series again, you will see he use a lot of useless attack even though his knife can cut the Minotaurus but he never bother continue using it (because author want an epic battle). If he use it, he just need AT MOST 5 hit to kill it (assume 1 hit cut 1 limb and last hit cut the head). He can also use it to block, it's unbreakable knife.
 
And please remember this knife is current only lvl 1 = Bell 's Level with Rank S stats = any noobie advanture.
Bell with rank S Stats even use Minotaurus greatsword but not cut as sharp as this lvl 1 knife.
=> So its buff isn't just lvl but also stats rank.
 
 
Beside FYI, I think I remember when he fight silverback, Hestia upgrade his status and the knife also grow stronger, make him enough to kill silverback.

Spoiler

A weapon that can reach the top on its own is CHEATING for a blacksmith. Don't ever make The Goddess craft a godly weapon like that again.

You just justified everything I have said earlier. Bravo!
I see you don't even understand the obvious theme of the weapon at all.

Here, let me help you again. Look at the attachment.

Both arguments over the knife are plausible in my opinion. The knife, coupled with Realis Phase is icing on the cake though. I'm not sure I like realis phase. Bell is a hardworker, but so are other adventures - his hardwork just pays off a lot more. There was another comment on another forum said by a guy who felt them same;
 
"I don't like Realis Phrase. Oh I know, it's a way for him to catch up fast but it cheapens everyone's effort to reach where they were before. Sure he works for it, but not as much as he should have.
Aiz took a year to become level 2. Risking her life at the dungeon at age seven , never resting until she's sick, to get strong so she won't lose anyone else again. Tiona and Tione were

  , Lili spent years being a thief because she needed money to free herself. Welf had .

 

Why did Bell get Realis Phrase and not them? Because he wants to catch up to Aiz? They're more deserving of it. Mind you, I really like Danmachi but I just can't really like Realis Phrase and it's implications" 

I thought it was a pretty good argument. The comment came from here https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/5iguo8/danmachi_sword_oratoria_teaser_visual_by_kiyotaka/

That is your personal opinion. Please provide evidence where your assumption is mentioned in the story, novel or manga.


"Not too weak, Not too strong" as said by Hephaestus is basically the weapon's theme.
When it grows with the user, it is at its weakest when the user is at Level 1.

 

It only become trash/weak when not in Bell's hand but in Bell's hand it can cut Minotaurus like tofu.

He just never remember use it (in his left hand) to hit the Minotaurus but use the trash knife his right hand and fire spell or steal Minotaurus Trash Greatsword.

 

And if you read the main series again, you will see he use a lot of useless attack even though his knife can cut the Minotaurus but he never bother continue using it (because author want an epic battle). If he use it, he just need AT MOST 5 hit to kill it (assume 1 hit cut 1 limb and last hit cut the head). He can also use it to block, it's unbreakable knife.

 

And please remember this knife is current only lvl 1 = Bell 's Level with Rank S stats = any noobie advanture.

Bell with rank S Stats even use Minotaurus greatsword but not cut as sharp as this lvl 1 knife.

=> So its buff isn't just lvl but also stats rank.

 

 

Beside FYI, I think I remember when he fight silverback, Hestia upgrade his status and the knife also grow stronger, make him enough to kill silverback.

A weapon that can reach the top on its own is CHEATING for a blacksmith. Don't ever make The Goddess craft a godly weapon like that again.

Did they made Bell way more manlier in both face and actions than in the original series' manga, or is it that since this is from Ais' perspective and she developed something akin to Lefiya's yuri vision?

I thought the same... This is just NOT Bell-kun I know...xD :

Spoiler

Yeah, that was clearly Ais own vision of him since it is inside her mind, but i was talking about pages 29, 30, 31, 36 (that serious face) and even 33, where it looks like it is in the real world and from no one perspective.

I think you guys mis-understood what I said.
 
That weapon is best because it was the same as your level.
You can't equip legendary end game weapon when you just start the game anyway (there are stats and level requirement).
In online game, I have end game weapon and equipments +10 in a character but I can't equip it for my another lvl 1 character. And I have to save a lot of money in my max level character, buy a lot of best equipment, grind max grade waiting the other character to reach a certain level to change.
 
But Bell weapon is always become a his level + max grind grade.
(something like that, a weapon we never ever need to change or grind grade or worry about fail when grind and it have same level as you).
 
In this case Bell is level 1 rank S, that weapon is one of the best level 1 rank S weapon (of course it weaker than level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon but Bell have no way to equip level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon yet anyway).

That is your personal opinion. Please provide evidence where your assumption is mentioned in the story, novel or manga.


"Not too weak, Not too strong" as said by Hephaestus is basically the weapon's theme.
When it grows with the user, it is at its weakest when the user is at Level 1.

In this case Bell is level 1 rank S, that weapon is one of the best level 1 rank S weapon (of course it weaker than level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon but Bell have no way to equip level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon yet anyway).

Pretty sure that's not an actual physical limitation in this setting.
 
Adventurers in this series can wield far more powerful weapons than is suitable than their levels. It's more that Hephaestus (and presumably, most Familia that actually wants their members to become stronger over time) just avoids it because it ends up causing the adventurers' growth to stop and/or become stunted, when they try to main weapons they're not ready for.

Hahaha and you should know that, in most games, growth weapons are only good enough for the player lvl, right? If there's a game with a growth weapon and that weapon is OP it doesn't mean bell's will be too. And as you said, it becomes OP only when you reach lvl max.

 

You also know that Tales weapon does 20 damage with 20 kills, which is basically what the weapon is when used by a Lv 1 Bell
Tales make it easy. Grind games can make it 10,000 personal kills for 1 damage up. when you don't know how to strengthen the weapon, what would you do with the weapon after 100,000 kills and you get 10 damage from the weapon? lol

If the weapon is "easy mode", he would just slice through minotaur but would that help him in the long run? No.
"assumed crap weapon" is intentionally made that way to ensure Bell does not rely on the weapon but himself.
You sure you understand why the Lv-based weapon was made?

 

I think you guys mis-understood what I said.

 

That weapon is best because it was the same as your level.

You can't equip legendary end game weapon when you just start the game anyway (there are stats and level requirement).

In online game, I have end game weapon and equipments +10 in a character but I can't equip it for my another lvl 1 character. And I have to save a lot of money in my max level character, buy a lot of best equipment, grind max grade waiting the other character to reach a certain level to change.

 

But Bell weapon is always become a his level + max grind grade.

(something like that, a weapon we never ever need to change or grind grade or worry about fail when grind and it have same level as you).

 

In this case Bell is level 1 rank S, that weapon is one of the best level 1 rank S weapon (of course it weaker than level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon but Bell have no way to equip level 2/3/4/5/6 weapon yet anyway).