Ichigeki

All you are doing is proving my point for me. The kind of physique displayed in the manga isn't attainable unless you are on a specific diet and training regimen. You don't get that kind of tone from just working in the fields. Body builders have to do steroids, eat shit tons of protein, train all kinds of muscle groups specifically and actualaly dehydrate themselves shortly before a competition for that kind of look.

I get that it's just an aesthetic thing the author is going for but very few people looked like that until relatively recently in human history. I mean, fuck, even in the fifties the average person wasn't getting proper nutrients and as such militaries complained that their recruits were too thin (and I'm talking about industrial nations here).
 

They're not medieval. This manga is set in 1868.

Given that there was no comparable era of advancement like the Renaissance in Japan until Europeans kicked in the door I feel it appropriate to call their society medieval. They had feudal lords still at that time, had they not? And in any case, those peasants' lives surely weren't much different from those of medieval peasants.

Probably the most unrealistic part about this manga is the extent to which these medieval paupers are ripped.

 

They're not medieval. This manga is set in 1868. Japanese peasants in this period were muscular but wiry. The reason is a combination of hard work building up the muscles and a poor vegetarian diet preventing buildup of body fat. They could not have gained the amount of muscle mass shown in this manga because of the latter; simply not enough protein.

 

 

That said, there were peasants in Edo with noticeably heavy muscular build: Dock workers. These guys lived on a diet of fish (mostly tuna) and rice which was cheap back then in Edo thanks to a combination of excess rice from daimyo tributes and lack of preservation methods forcing fishermen to discount their unsold catch. Big fish like tuna were especially cheap by the pound because only food sellers could handle them whole. 

 

As for the samurai, contemporary writers and some photographs of sumo matches (until the Meiji Restoration sumo wrestlers were almost all samurai) indicate that samurai were built like The Mountain, but smaller: Strong upper body and muscular arms but with a lot of body fat and often somewhat distended stomach. This is incidentally the build of the earliest professional sumo wrestlers at the start of the 20th century, not the extreme overweight build we see today resulting from decades of competitive sumo rules.

 

they're farmers, not paupers... made strong by hard physical labour

 

Actually, I find it surprising how many people have been discussing the matter of these peasants' physique. The author suggests they are an exception to the rule because they used to throw heavy rocks by way of working out (chapter 1).

 

I dunno about that stuff, but I've seen people say samurai were lean and agile, not muscular. And farmers engaged in hard work would become strong, but not develop the muscles we associate with male beauty in contemporary times. So yeah, it requires some suspension of disbelief to accept their depiction in this manga.

 

Then again, I may be wrong, but I doubt their blades would have been as sharp as described here.

Probably the most unrealistic part about this manga is the extent to which these medieval paupers are ripped.

they're farmers, not paupers... made strong by hard physical labour

Probably the most unrealistic part about this manga is the extent to which these medieval paupers are ripped.

So, a sumo ring where you practiced swordmanship with bokuto, eh? Is the mangaka implying that Ushigoro invented kendo?

This manga is so fun. They're literally disposable assassins but they look like they're having fun doing it despite being peasants not so long ago. The best part is that while it appears that they are goofing around, they're actually good at their job.

Ichigeki: Skeletor's Japanese Vacation

With that first line you just know this is gonna be good ...

This makes much more sense now - if that was what the author deliberately intended to convey
Also realized that Japanese peasantry seemingly lack use of machete/cleaver/falchion tools which could generally be used as effective impromptu weapons. The chinese Dadao for instance was ubiquitous to the extent that even during their civil war, a large part of their factions were only armed with that hulking beast of a machete. Then again it might just be a lack of media depiction.

 

Japanese peasants used a form of machete/hatchet tool called a nata and a form of billhook called a kama. In the Edo period, Tokugawa laws regulated the size, shape, and weight of nata and kama available to the peasantry, much like medieval German laws regulated civilian ownership of bladed tools to the messer (knife). Predictably, much like "naughty" civilians in the German principalities developed the langmesser ("long knife" - basically a short sword), crafty Japanese peasants also developed nata and kama into fighting tools. If you're familiar with ninja lore, the kusari-gama (lit. kusari = chain, kama = billhook) was a specialty weapon adapted from the latter. The nata was developed into a long-handled hatchet because Tokugawa laws only regulated the blade, not the handle. Ironically, when oriental martial artist adherents in the West today refer to the nata, they normally think of the long-handled weapon instead of the original cleaver.

 

Side note: In the sengoku period, the samurai polearm naginata originally had a nata blade on a long pole. This later evolved into a dadao-shaped blade, then even later into the katana-on-a-stick we're familiar with today.

 

On the subject of dadao use by Chinese troops during the Civil War, this has long been debunked by historical research. The myth arose from the various photographs of specialist close-combat troops in the REAR of the line (where the Western photographers usually stayed) lurking around waiting to be called to clear buildings. There was an embargo on rifle sales to China prior to WW2, which led to a severe shortage of firearms for the troops. However, after the Chinese Civil War, the PLA destroyed or recycled more than 60 million handguns of various types captured during the fighting or confiscated after, as part of Mao's civilian disarmament program. This is what the vast majority of combatants were actually equipped with during the CCW, not dadaos. China had large factories churning out crazy numbers of civilian-model handguns, plus various metal shops churning out dubious blowback "mystery pistols". Troops were armed mostly with these, with only the most trusted elites equipped with proper rifles and machine guns.

 

Another side note: The Chinese People's Armed Police still has specialist close combat units equipped with dadaos. These are mostly deployed in Xinjiang and Tibet to face insurgents equipped with swords and spears. They have even modernized the dadao with modern "tactified" polymer grips.

BTW, the reason why swords are used in this manga (or rather, the historical events described here) is because at this time spears were considered military arms similar to guns and only proper military forces used them. Swords were considered personal sidearms and prestige markings for the samurai, and although ordinances were in effect prohibiting their wearing in Edo, it was practically impossible for the constabulary to disarm the samurai. If the assassinations had been done with spears, it would have been proof positive that proper authorities (either Shogunate or House) were involved. Swordfights could be passed off as samurai brawls.

This makes much more sense now - if that was what the author deliberately intended to convey
Also realized that Japanese peasantry seemingly lack use of machete/cleaver/falchion tools which could generally be used as effective impromptu weapons. The chinese Dadao for instance was ubiquitous to the extent that even during their civil war, a large part of their factions were only armed with that hulking beast of a machete. Then again it might just be a lack of media depiction.

A haldberd will be even deadlier with its crushing and piercing attributes

 

Halberdiers were for the most part professional fighting men in both Asia and Europe. The only "peasant" halberdiers in Europe were the Swiss, and they're actually second or third sons of landholding farmers instead of true peasants. Elsewhere in Europe, halberdiers were mostly townsfolk or gentry.

 

Japan never used halberds in large numbers, and practically all Japanese halberdiers during the Sengoku era were drawn from the samurai class. It takes a lot of skill and training to use halberds proficiently, as compared to spears. In China, halberds form the majority of most renditions of the "18 arms" used by the military houses (and in wushu today). The Chinese arming manual for spears and pikes written by General Qi Jiguang (Lord Martial Wuyi as worshiped by Confucianists) listed only 8 stances for the spear, 6 for the pike. That's a literal war god's take on spear training. The contemporary Ming-era manual for the 18 arms listed more than 20 stances for each type of halberd (24 for the ji). Presumably, the Japanese would have used something similar to this.

 

BTW, the reason why swords are used in this manga (or rather, the historical events described here) is because at this time spears were considered military arms similar to guns and only proper military forces used them. Swords were considered personal sidearms and prestige markings for the samurai, and although ordinances were in effect prohibiting their wearing in Edo, it was practically impossible for the constabulary to disarm the samurai. If the assassinations had been done with spears, it would have been proof positive that proper authorities (either Shogunate or House) were involved. Swordfights could be passed off as samurai brawls.

Art is not realy bad, just not very easy to read.

Story and characters seem to be good though.

I like the originalty, most of historical manga (or wanabe) speak only of samourai as if peasant and other non aristocrat were non existant or just some background.

Focusing and peasant wanting to become samourai is very interesting imoa.

"it doesn't matter how bad the art is, as long as the story is great"...
the art of this manga is so-so... it probably matches the story...
but the story is no doubt a great one...

If you ever want to arm peasants you should always give them spears. Spears are fucking OP.

 

A haldberd will be even deadlier with its crushing and piercing attributes

God man I love this manga, there aren't really any samurai manga out there

We're back, and ready to roll. Chapter 07 is already cleaned and translated, at proofing right now. Enjoy!

Really glad you guys didn't die. Thanks for the update!

We're back, and ready to roll. Chapter 07 is already cleaned and translated, at proofing right now. Enjoy!

"Real Life"...? What kind if imaginary concept is that?  Aren't all of Death Toll's Translators supposed to be kept chained to their computers and fed on a diet of fish heads and badly undercooked rice?  What about the daily beatings to keep them motivated?

 

Only one lash for every grammar error not corrected by the proofers. I'm down to only three beatings a day!  

The new volume was out today, but our translator is busy in real life till mid-August, so please hang in there a little longer.

 

"Real Life"...? What kind if imaginary concept is that?  Aren't all of Death Toll's Translators supposed to be kept chained to their computers and fed on a diet of fish heads and badly undercooked rice?  What about the daily beatings to keep them motivated?

The new volume was out today, but our translator is busy in real life till mid-August, so please hang in there a little longer.

If you ever want to arm peasants you should always give them spears. Spears are fucking OP.

Coup de grace has a different meaning entirely. It literally means "blow of mercy" and refers to finishing someone off when the outcome is already decided. It has nothing to do with the notion of killing in one blow, but rather ending someone's suffering, putting them out of their misery.

 

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking.

"One strike".

 

It's an allusion to the fact that the peasants' squad is trained to kill their enemy with just one hit. Of the translations proposed, "With one strike" is the closest, and "coup de grâce", the most refined, in my opinion.

 

Coup de grace has a different meaning entirely. It literally means "blow of mercy" and refers to finishing someone off when the outcome is already decided. It has nothing to do with the notion of killing in one blow, but rather ending someone's suffering, putting them out of their misery.

"ichigeki" an appropriate translation would be "first blood" i guess?
well, may be i'm wrong, my japanese has never been that great anyways

 

"One strike".

 

It's an allusion to the fact that the peasants' squad is trained to kill their enemy with just one hit. Of the translations proposed, "With one strike" is the closest, and "coup de grâce", the most refined, in my opinion.