Videshi

Wow! Two replies and I'm blushing!

First, thank you both. I haven't delved deeply into the forums yet since I only just arrived. But I like what both of you have written. It reinforces my feeling that this is the place to be for my manga addiction.

I am a bit embarrassed by my introductory rant, having slept on it now, but I still stand by it all because it is how I feel.

Weaper:

You are probably correct in suggesting the scanlators I approached were larger. I don't know how to tell how big any of them are. Every scanlator site I visit seems to have what I view as a respectably-sized project list, so I'm just not able to discern such things yet because I lack a frame of reference. I won't mention titles or names because that would give away who they are and I don't want it to be about that.

You are also correct in that the watermark did its job. In retrospect, I applaud the bold move, but I still suggest a change in tactic. Or perhaps it isn't a change at all. I suggest that you re-release a version, water-mark free on the key art pages, or perhaps control a download version that you only send upon request? I don't know. I still have a big problem with defacing the mangaka's work, as you can probably tell.


To amend my introduction post:

I suppose it's evident now that I'm a tsundere whose dam broke and a bunch of stuff gushed out uncontrolled (sort of). I apologize to anyone who was offended.

And with that, I'll be quiet now. <blushes>

Videshi

Hi everyone,

I'm new here. Sorry, but my introduction post is going to be long and something of a rant. But I think it makes clear who I am and how I think. But before I light the bar-b-que, I'll share some other bits of information.

I follow dozens, if not hundreds, of titles. I have many that I pounce on insatiably as soon as I see them listed. One thing about me, though, I have the discipline to not read something that is in domestic (USA) production. For example, I love Kimi Ni Todoke. I won't read it online, though. I will buy it. (I miss Borders!!! T.T) I do make exceptions. When the domestic production was so long ago that I cannot find it new or used any longer, then I will read the chapters I am missing through an online source. Eventually, I will find the hard copy and buy it for my library. I have literally tens of thousands of dollars tied up in manga and anime, and am old enough that I began this back when Robotech was considered "manga". My oldest anime is a $150 VHS of Be Forever Yamato. It is a Japanese release VHS, not a copy. Back when basic VCRs cost more than $300 and minimum wage was $3.25 an hour. I do remember Beta. Ah memories.

I must say that I also understand that not everyone has my resources, not that I really have that many resources any longer (darned economy), so I do not belittle anyone who reads things that are available in domestic release.


So, that was the nice part of the introduction. Now... time to drop the match.

I've been an avid user of MangaFox and Mangahere for quite some time. I started seeing pages in the manga I follow where the scanlators were becoming increasingly unhappy with MF and MH so I decided to start looking into it.

I started by going to the individual scanlators to see what their gripes were. At the risk of offending them, I think they are being whiney-babies about it. However, I can see their points. They donate huge amounts of their own time and resources for their love of manga and to make that manga available to many more people. At first, I thought to show my support by joining a scanlator. I cannot translate, but I am rather proficient at almost every other aspect since I do a lot of document creation and manipulation for my job.

The first thing I discovered when I tried that was just how much of a prima-donna complex some of these scanlators have. If you aren't already doing it for someone else, you pretty much are unwelcome, no matter what your skill set. Egos. We all have one, and I admit I have one myself. It takes a certain amount and type of ego to even try to do scanlation, so it's a necessary evil. But I will say that the experience has led me to believe that the scanlators are just as much to blame for MangaFox, et.al. as the owner's of MF, et.al, themselves.

My message to all scanlators...

This is the internet. Anything on the internet will be stolen, no matter how well you protect it. They will take it by mole, by bot, by screen-capture, but they will take it. Get over it. Appeal to the general good nature of the larger audience by offering an acceptable alternative. Why does MangaFox survive? Because it is an easy place to go to get a HUGE inventory of titles. Sorry, but it's the Wal-Mart approach. Offer everything in one place at cheap prices (free to the user). Tried and true approach. You can't fight it. Don't even try.

Instead, do exactly what you are doing with Batoto.com. Band together, or make an arrangement with someone who can consolidate titles in a manner that is acceptable to you and that will share the proceeds from ad revenue with you. How you work out the split and share is up to you and Batoto, but this is exactly how to fight it. In this way, you get help in your efforts. If you are smart about it, you can even cut your expenses by not needing to pay for the bandwidth and throughput required when hosting the reader. You may not even need your own website at all. Let's face it, that's where a lot of money is needed. How much expense savings would there be if you only had to use the site for information and forum and a link to Batoto for download or reading. The glory of banding together is the potential elimination of redundant expenses across the dozens (hundreds?) of scanlators freeing up capital so as to be able to procure more product.

Keep in mind, Batoto must quickly develop an extensive library. How? Turnabout is fair play. Take it from MF, et.al. Being "the good guys", sit on what you take until you get a response from the scanlator as to whether or not you may use it. If the scanlator is defunct, then put it up. We have to consider orphaned and abandoned projects as our seedy underground's "public domain."

One thing you do NOT do is this crazy excessive watermarking. Look at Love So Life #30. Every page splattered with intrusive watermarking that frankly makes reading the release so annoying that I couldn't finish the chapter. How does that help anyone? How does that help the scanlator? What it tells me, and I suspect a large portion of the audience, is that the scanlator is so petty that they will walk all over the mangaka's work to make their point. Shame on you. If I had any right to do so, I'd demand you apologize to the mangaka for it. You want to watermark, fine. Add bars at the top, bottom, or sides. But do NOT deface the mangaka's artwork with your unwelcome graffiti. Doing it in this manner makes you as bad or worse than MF, in my opinion.

That brings me to the next point. Rights. NONE of us have any rights to do any of this. The scanlators have no rights to provide the product. The audience has no right to view it. Therefore, not one of us has a right to say who may or may not profit from offering the product, save the mangaka and associated publisher(s) themselves. So again, get over it. Quit complaining about the seedy underbelly of the business. Every business has one. Deal with it.

As for me, I will cease using the Wal-Mart brand of manga scanlation sites and use Batoto to show my support for the scanlators and to deny the less-scrupulous any revenue derived from my visits. I suggest that all scanlators immediately put in an informative page in their releases giving reasons why readers should only go to Batoto.com. Then, you will have to watch what the market will do. Batoto should pursue a similar operations model to that of MF, et.al, in that they should look for the same advertisers, especially since the advertisers are not likely to be loyal to anyone, including the owners of MF, et.al., themselves. If you want to beat them, you have to beat them at their own game. Fortunately, it's not hard to do on the internet. If Batoto can be made into the premier reader site, and all the content everywhere directs you to read it here and not there, it's only a matter of time before the "good guys" all come here. The "bad guys" won't care, pay any attention, and won't change no matter what.

Okay. Rant over. Sorry. I'll try to be more cordial from now on. <blushes>

Replies are welcome, even if flaming. After all, if you can't take it, you shouldn't dish it out. ^.~

Videshi