54 replies to this topic

[Cydric]

I'm starting this topic because I want to see how many other fans of Freezing want to see Kazuya finally get serious. I think he really needs to start using his stigmatic body and "Freezing" rather than let the girls get into all these cat fights! (Not that I'm entirely complaining about the fights but why does he just stand there the whole time like an idiot?)

Personally, I want to see Kazuya get into some action like in the anime! Please leave a comment and tell me what you think.

[Viscoun]

yeah definitely think so too, it seems like the limiter in general, not just kazuya, has become essentially useless these past few chapters, they're just like male escorts standing around watching the girls. it's like they're only there to watch a show or something. maybe we'll get some limiter action later on in the story.

it is a bit pointless to make a forum thread for this though. all you'll get is a choir of voices agreeing with you and some lone minority saying that they want more fanservice or something, forget kazuya. still, i have to agree with what you said.

[Valvatorez]

When does charcther devoplment ever happen in a Kim Dal Young manga? it's something that seems to be very low on his priority list.

Kazuya is one of the most useless protagnests in manga, not even Shinji or Shiro Emiya was that pitiful. When it comes to useless main charcthers its a race that Young seems to be the only participant of.

[Cydric]

[quote/] it is a bit pointless to make a forum thread for this though. all you'll get is a choir of voices agreeing with you and some lone minority saying that they want more fanservice or something, forget kazuya. still, i have to agree with what you said. [/quote]
I figured when I started this thread that there would be a lot of people who would agree. However, I don't think that it's pointless. Maybe someone has an opinion about why it should just be the girls fighting and the limiters stay out of it. My idea when I started this thread was to get more opinions about the story and learn how many people want to see character progression.

[Viscoun]

I figured when I started this thread that there would be a lot of people who would agree. However, I don't think that it's pointless. Maybe someone has an opinion about why it should just be the girls fighting and the limiters stay out of it. My idea when I started this thread was to get more opinions about the story and learn how many people want to see character progression.

i see, that's true, i was thinking about that as well.

[FreezingObsessed33]

Think of it this way. The reason you develop other characters more than the protagonist is because you want to leave it open for him to grow. The more companions he has the more he has to fight for. Like when Satellizer got pissed of when Ganessa took the shot for her in the like fortieth chapter. If you didn't see the progression in the character and how she changed it would have been lame to show off her abilities any other way. From a cold hearted lone wolf that was strong but not strong enough. To a loving and caring person that had the strength to fight for what she cared about. Its just a way to leave the story more open and more people interested. It wouldn't make a good story line if he just constantly went in there froze everyone and let Satellizer just beat on them. It wouldn't even make his abilities special. It would make it seem to over used. In Manga and Anime the more the main character has to fight for or with the stronger he or she becomes. Its not that he is wimp or anything. Its just in his passive nature to not fight. So of course your not going to see him charge into battle constantly. Shiro and Shinji eventually maned up to the challenge. So Kazuya will have his time. I think he is probably the last person that is going to show off his real abilities. They are going to improve his relationships with the other characters first before they give him any good "screen time".

I don't mind the girl fights but i really enjoy the back stories of the characters. I think it gives the manga more of a emotional feel. So how i feel on the topic is that it is fine the way it is going to be honest. I just want to know more of Chiffons back story.

Edited by FreezingObsessed33, 18 December 2012 - 08:13 AM.

[Ziell.]

Think of it this way. The reason you develop other characters more than the protagonist is because you want to leave it open for him to grow. The more companions he has the more he has to fight for. Like when Satellizer got pissed of when Ganessa took the shot for her in the like fortieth chapter. If you didn't see the progression in the character and how she changed it would have been lame to show off her abilities any other way. From a cold hearted lone wolf that was strong but not strong enough. To a loving and caring person that had the strength to fight for what she cared about. Its just a way to leave the story more open and more people interested. It wouldn't make a good story line if he just constantly went in there froze everyone and let Satellizer just beat on them. It wouldn't even make his abilities special. It would make it seem to over used. In Manga and Anime the more the main character has to fight for or with the stronger he or she becomes. Its not that he is wimp or anything. Its just in his passive nature to not fight. So of course your not going to see him charge into battle constantly. Shiro and Shinji eventually maned up to the challenge. So Kazuya will have his time. I think he is probably the last person that is going to show off his real abilities. They are going to improve his relationships with the other characters first before they give him any good "screen time".

I don't mind the girl fights but i really enjoy the back stories of the characters. I think it gives the manga more of a emotional feel. So how i feel on the topic is that it is fine the way it is going to be honest. I just want to know more of Chiffons back story.

Jessus...
but have to agree, i would also like a litlle bit more background on Roxane and the other genetics but you already have Chiffons back story in First Chronicles

[FreezingObsessed33]

It is a small part of it but you don't know how she got to know her abilities or how she become the way she was. It is small part i want to know a lot more. I also agree i want to know Roxanne's back story and Ouka's.

[svines85]

Think of it this way. The reason you develop other characters more than the protagonist is because you want to leave it open for him to grow. The more companions he has the more he has to fight for.

The reality at this point is that he's not the protagonist. He certainly was introduced that way but you just can't have a main character marginalized as much as his character has been and still consider it one of the driving forces of the plot. When you take a hard look at the entire manga to date, his character's contribution essentially boils down to the role of a side or supporting character. The story is about Stella and the Pandoras, the role his character has actually played is only support to that.

[Valvatorez]

Think of it this way. The reason you develop other characters more than the protagonist is because you want to leave it open for him to grow. The more companions he has the more he has to fight for. Like when Satellizer got pissed of when Ganessa took the shot for her in the like fortieth chapter. If you didn't see the progression in the character and how she changed it would have been lame to show off her abilities any other way. From a cold hearted lone wolf that was strong but not strong enough. To a loving and caring person that had the strength to fight for what she cared about. Its just a way to leave the story more open and more people interested. It wouldn't make a good story line if he just constantly went in there froze everyone and let Satellizer just beat on them. It wouldn't even make his abilities special. It would make it seem to over used. In Manga and Anime the more the main character has to fight for or with the stronger he or she becomes. Its not that he is wimp or anything. Its just in his passive nature to not fight. So of course your not going to see him charge into battle constantly. Shiro and Shinji eventually maned up to the challenge. So Kazuya will have his time. I think he is probably the last person that is going to show off his real abilities. They are going to improve his relationships with the other characters first before they give him any good "screen time".

Trying to leaving things open is nothing more than laziness. Actually it would be an improvement if his powers weren't beholden to the author's personally backwards fetishes, as the story would be more coherent if Young didn't make Kazuya a moron. However that seems to be Young's personal image of a nice guy, an utterly useless contemptible moron with no redeeming qualities.


Kazuya will never do so, the purpose of Freezing has never been character development and drama for the sake of drama like a Soap Opera or shoujo/yoai manga. A sudden convenient change in character behavior really doesn't count if it done via flashback and if its too inconvenient for the author to kill off any character except for the Mary Sue(the Cake Girl). . Kazuya is well passed the manning up stage that Shiro ,Shinji and most Seinen protagonists reached at he same point. They have grown up mentally in less time then Kazuya has. Long before the time his would be girlfriend get allowed herself to sexually abused by her own brother(less then a page of resistence and Stockholm Sydrome isn't charcther devopment) behind his back , nor was he useful when they fought with the purple haired Mary Sue.

Edited by Commissar Valvatorez, 28 December 2012 - 12:10 PM.

[Beelz]

When does charcther devoplment ever happen in a Kim Dal Young manga? it's something that seems to be very low on his priority list.

Kazuya is one of the most useless protagnests in manga, not even Shinji or Shiro Emiya was that pitiful. When it comes to useless main charcthers its a race that Young seems to be the only participant of.

I gotta agree... well there are afew of his works that have decent main characters... the one that comes to mind would be Legend of maian... although Felix starts off crappy hes pritty decent now... also Phantom Kings main character isn't useless so its not like he can't do good male leads.

Now i best get on topic... I do agree that Kazuya is useless and tbh i wouldn't mind him being useless if he didn't have the potential to be awesome.... Its like he created Kazuya solely to piss people off... he gives us a useless male lead who lets be honest has the potential to be a total badass and then what does he do with said potential he fucking leaves it on the shelf gathering dust.... and there is nothing more fustrating than spending each chapter hoping to see said male lead do something worthwhile and then getting fuck all but the same old useless A-hole who lets be honest does fuck all. Pardom my french... i got going and well couldn't stop till it was all out.

On another note i think Kazuya is my biggest problem with Freezing... he needs to stop twiddling his thumbs and start acting like a worth while protagonist.

[Cydric]

[quote/] The reality at this point is that he's not the protagonist. He certainly was introduced that way but you just can't have a main character marginalized as much as his character has been and still consider it one of the driving forces of the plot. When you take a hard look at the entire manga to date, his character's contribution essentially boils down to the role of a side or supporting character. The story is about Stella and the Pandoras, the role his character has actually played is only support to that. [/quote]
I have to agree that Kazuya is almost like a supporting character at this point. However, I still think that Young plans on making him use his powers at some point. Kazuya still has the ability to really become the protagonist because of his powers but obviously Young has a plan on when that will happen. An example of Im Dal-Young's writing, where the protagonist takes a while to shine, would be The Legend of Maian in the original section. Personally, I think that Young wants to try and build the story up in order to make Kazuya shine. However, at the moment it looks like it's backfiring because he's taking too long to do it. I really do think he has some sort of plan in order to reveal Kazuya's powers and I will continue to read until that happens. Hopefully it won't be much longer though

[Squirly]

The most frustrating thing about Kazuya not showing any real development is that we can see all these other characters plotting and scheming in the background and the 'protagonists' are always, always reacting to it, usually badly. We never really see them taking action or working to avoid their fate. Kazuya standing at the sides of a battle and shouting "Senpai!" while doing absolutely nothing is pretty indicative of the kind of attitude to the greater story arcs. Unless you're a villain, or at least a dodgy character, you apparently just wander through life in a daze until horrible things happen.

[svines85]

@Jcsaxton

Yeah, getting back to the original topic, I for one certainly agree with you and wish Kazuya would "get serious" and deliver on the promise I thought his character had in the early part of this story. Given his initial introduction, this story has turned out drastically different than I expected when I started reading it a little over three years ago.

To me, he really was the main character for roughly the first 40 or so chapters..........but everything changed after that. From there we went to the quasi-s/m sexual relationship of Stella and her (step?) brother, where Stella essentially became the entire focal point of the story, and from there to the E-Pandora arc, which further marginalized Kazuya and his role for the next 40+ chapters as the story turned to in-depth governmental workings and the relationships of the various Pandoras......... in addition to Stella. Even at this point, 20 more chapters later, though he's being somewhat re-integrated into the story.........it's still as a side character to the far stronger (presence-wise) female characters...........now he's a "prize" to be fought over.

It'd be nice if your Legend of Maian parallel turns out to be true.........I really think we're missing out on a great potential character in Kazuya and the action a "most powerful limiter ever" could bring to the story...........but I do still enjoy this story, however things turn out for him.

[Rune.]

I didnt realize that this thread existed. I have found kindred spirits, indeed.

In any case, Im Dal Young should just write a plot twist where the Limiters all die for some reason. Let's be real: they are all meaningless. The Pandoras fight each other anyway, regardless of the Freezing ability of their Limiters. Maybe Im Dal Young will get smart and give the Limiters some sort of stigmata cancer or stigmata herpes ('cause, you know, the Pandoras insert their stigmata into their Limiters) that manifests when a special Nova arrives or something.

P.S.: Kazuya sucks. That is all.

Edited by Rune., 03 March 2013 - 03:27 AM.

[svines85]

I didnt realize that this thread existed. I have found kindred spirits, indeed.

P.S.: Kazuya sucks. That is all.

Hahaha!!! well, he's barely got a little more screen presence than air at this point..........but just barely. xD

and it really has gotten a little bit better in the last half-dozen chps or so, so maybe there's still hope for him to man-up and turn back into a leading character again.

[Rune.]

maybe there's still hope for him to man-up and turn back into a leading character again.

Considering that we're already so far into the story (Volume 17. Wow), I really couldn't care for Kazuya any less than I do now. Think about that: 17 volumes. Barely any character development. At this point I'd rather read about Satella (weird nickname, by the way, they should just stick with Stella. Much easier to say), her development, Ticy's transformation into a complete badass (I still miss Chiffon. Insane and lovable, such a fantastic combination.), Arnett vs. Charles (I actually want Arnette to win, just because), and some other stuff.

I think that the main reason Kazuya is still a part of the series is so that Satella and Rana (and now Ouka) have something to play with. For one thing, he's an incredibly weak romance partner. He's the "best friend" at best. He's also stupid, lame, and just so... unnecessary. The girls are better off having romances between themselves. They're all badasses, anyhow, in their own ways. Maybe Im Dal Young's afraid of yuri.

[svines85]

17 volumes.....yup, and to me that's the biggest problem with Kazuya. I really do think he'll end up being a pivotal character.....be it a traditional "badass" type character or some other twist that puts him in a central role..........and that the author has allowed him to languish soooo long means that when it does happen it will be all the more implausible.

[orphen21]

well at least he got to first base with Stella already

[Deadshadows]

I agree that Kazuya is useless now, but if i remember correctly he is the only limiter who can freezing without making the thing they need to do (dont remember the name and im sleepy) and he is pretty strong while at it, it's just what some people need more imagination for the use of the character ...

 

Just imagine a little something which could be possible using some fact :

Limiter cant use power without been with a pandora ...

1rst pandora was Kazuya's sister ...

She was (if i remember correctly) mostly stigmata ...

 

If Kazuya have some stigmata compability (cause same family of 1rst pandora) and Gengo have inserted some in him (or was born with them or something like this) without him knowing and making them inactivable, it'll explain why he can use freezing without pandora cause he is one himself ...

 

 

Kazuya is one of the most useless protagnests in manga, not even Shinji or Shiro Emiya was that pitiful.

 

 I don't totally agree with it, Shinji was not a real magician, but still made what it could (even if he was mad (mostly cause of his grand-father)) but it have limited Rider stats a lots, Emiya is a magician without knowledge but an incredible sensibility for magic if you make the mix of the 2 you'll have one hell of a magician ... Just remember who Archer is and in a 1vs1 match vs Berserker and Ilya he have killed it 5 time and he haven't traced Excalibur ... And if you havent played the game you dont know the 2nd path nor the 3rd (well the 2nd u could know mostly if you have watched the UBW movie), UBW can match Gate of babylon (and dont forget about Nive Lives Blades Works)... Archer/Shirou who can fight mostly on par with the 2 stronger servant ... And he is useless ??? Well maybe not this usefull as he could have been ...

 

I think you shoud have understand by this speech and my avatar what its my favorite manga/anime/novel game ...

 

ps : Sorry for the little out of subject ... (and sorry if theire is a lots of fault, engrish not my native language )