10 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

I see the extort money line was improved to make sense, but there is still something that doesn't make sense to me, even after change.

"There are some people who slip through the clutches of the law...

And there are some people who could just as easily live without"

I assume based on context and what follows after that the two parts of these are two opposing dicotomies shown for contrast. But none of that is evidenced in this text. Plus that second part seems like a hanging sentence or something. Live without what? Material possessions maybe? That would be another assumption based on the context of the story as a whole, but not at all evidenced in the text.

"Someone who can live without the law"

"sound(s) truely decent"

Er, sounds like a outlaw, a potential criminal. I would note before the change the hanging line that said live without (unknown) use to say live without the law too. Once again, based on context of the storyline I could assume that this actually means something like "Someone who does the right thing regardless of the law".

Perhaps "live" in korean means to live a path of goodness or rightiousness or something, rather then just litterally living, as in breathing, eating, deficating, moving around, in which case, that doesn't translate in english like that. I mean in english we have the concept of "truely living" as in "living life to the fullest", which is more about enjoying life rather then doing the right thing and would not likely elicite a respond of "sound(s) truely decent"

Edited by truepurple, 07 December 2012 - 05:44 PM.

[Goobera]

...there are some people who could just as easily live without the law

This means "there are some people who are so innocent and 'naive' and good, that they could live without law/police/courts/prosecution, and still would instinctively act good and stay nice".. I think this was especially meant towards Leez and her ways of bringing back stolen goods, protecting the weak, fighting for her friends no matter what, saying thank you after receiving something, and bowing in front of anyone new she meets etc... But we know that Leez has a dark side too, her "revenge trip", so even she would not be able to "live without the law", and if she one day should accomplish her sinister plans, she will indeed have to live in regret

Basically this sentence is meant to describe someone too good, too kind, too nice and too naive to be true for this world ^^ Law and police are only needed as long as people commit crimes, so someone who never ever commits a crime does not need law and police to bring him/her back on the "right path" ^^

A criminal would be "someone who denies that laws exist", or "someone who does not WANT to have laws (but they are dearly needed to protect the rest of us against his/her crimes)". A person "who does not need any laws" is the typical angel, who never harms even a small critter ^^

I suppose the confusion here arises from the similarity of meaning between "need" and "want". Because we can say often "I do not need this=I do not want this", one could wrongly understand "a person who does not need the law" would mean "a person who does not want the law".

But here it is meant as "the need, the necessity, the call for etc" That person does not create the necessity for laws to exist, since he/she is too good to be true...

Edited by Goobera, 07 December 2012 - 06:11 PM.

[truepurple]

Where does the word "need" or "want" appear in the text? So so I fail to see the pertinence of that whole paragraph and the one following after.

As far as all that before the need/want bit, all that is based on presumption based on having read the rest of the story(you even referenced other parts of the story yourself),

• We know Leez is a good person.
• We know Asha is trying to talk the priest out of claiming the bracelette, even if the stolen good laws were changed, giving Asha every reason to want to describe Leez as a good person.
• We know it elicits a response of "sound(s) truly decent",

So we can assume

"There are some people who slip through the clutches of the law...
And there are some people who could just as easily live without"

"Someone who can live without the law"

means Asha is talking up Leez and the priest is echoing this sentiment. But not based on any of those words quoted there as they are near gobbledygook to me. They could be translated with black bars instead of words and I would have a similar idea of their meaning

Edited by truepurple, 07 December 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Goobera]

Sorry, out of exhaustion (was a long Friday at work today) =_=;; I messed up "do not need" and "could live without", but in the end the reasoning stays the same ^^ One could confuse "I could live without it" with "I do not want it"...

Edited by Goobera, 07 December 2012 - 07:54 PM.

[svines85]

@truepurple

Yup, that part of the dialogue was somewhat confusing (at least to me), like you point out though, when taken in context, we know what was meant by it. It is what it is.

[Kreiri]

I understood it as "some people don't have to be told 'if you do X, you will be punished' to understand that doing X is wrong".

[truepurple]

@svines85
Sure, but it would be nice to have a more nuanced understanding of the text, to understand exactly how Asha is praising Leez/Kubera.

Might be kreiri, but I would be interested in knowing how you arrived that that conclusion.

[paraquat]

It's not really that hard to figure out how she is praising Leez. Either Leez is innocent, and therefore has no need of the law, or Leez's personal morals are strong enough that she would be able to conduct herself in an ethical fashion without laws. In many theories of ethics, individuals that refrain from doing evil things from fear of being punished are of a lower moral standard than individuals that are able to avoid evil things because they believe that is the "right" way to live. The statement can be taken different ways, sure, but if you are praising someone then you would be using those terms in one of those two contexts, rather than interpreting it as meaning an "outlaw."

Edited by paraquat, 07 December 2012 - 10:41 PM.

[Eleean]

I guess in that part it's meant to say that law and ethical precepts are two different things, and there are people who have such a strong moral that they could even live without the law, and even if the law permitted something it is considered wrong, they would not use that loophole for their own benefit, because first of all they follow their ethics, their moral, and they believe in it.
Yes, the sentence could be used to describe a criminal who really believes in what he does, but I guess it is suggested also that "they can leave without the law" because they will never do anything openly contrasting it, as they already know what it's right and what is wrong even without the law.

Edited by Eleean, 07 December 2012 - 11:16 PM.

[foremostproxy]

Being able to live without needing enforced laws and rules is a good thing. It means you have a strong moral compass.

Laws are, in their purest form, the absolute minimum of human decency. The Earth Priest even mentions how "decent" such an individual would have to be. Asha is stating that even without having the law stipulate that Leez give back the bracelet, Leez would do so anyways

Funny how Asha has such an absolutely high opinion on Leez when she's not around

[Mizura]

It's confusing to us, but it might be a Korean expression that's clear to Koreans. When I tried to Google Translate that part before the translations were out, I got more or less the same thing as The Company, so the translation here is quite literal.