39 replies to this topic

[Akasha]

Since we already saw several fighting scenes and confrontations ... and since some major fighting might still happen during this arc ... it might make sense to analyze what we know already from the Manhwa, the authors statements as well as side materials, ecetera and to discuss how Purebloods, Quarter and Halfs, be they Fighter, Mages or Commoner, far in the world of Kubera if they have to fight against Sura (up to Nastika in human form) with all the tools (like god items, ecetera) and all the cooperation they got (as well as the small but real option to summon gods) at their disposal.

[fiveseconds]

Well, we know that it's basically impossible for a human to fight a Nastika. Maybe like 0.1% chance if there were like 50 elite magicians with items like the Cloak of Bondage.

A lot of humans, however, can destroy a weak Rakshasa (ex Cloche in the night it rained fire). I wouldn't think this occurs frequently. Maybe as a last resort.

They can possibly kill first/second stage Upani. From third and up it's hard to tell. Asha can kill Upani up to fourth stage but she's the cream of the crop.

And Maras... well, basically any magician can kill those.

[Rillet]

4th and 5th stage Mara are considered dangerous to the average human.

Mara's have taken the place of animals in the Kubera universe.

The main issue is Humans have very little vigor compared to Sura, but have the advantage in numbers to both Nastika and Gods. They can reproduce indefinitely and their offspring don't get weaker every generation.Humans could easily kill a Nastika in Sura form if enough of them fought together. (Probably the entire human population though...)

In the long term, Humans will surpass the Sura unless they eliminate them completely. Every Nastika dead is damaging the entire group.

[krackenker]

It's true that humanity as a race has the advantage over time against Suras, because once the Nastikas are dead.... thats pretty much it.
Although, if Suras probably wanted to they could kill off the entire human race.... (maybe not as easy now with the prevention for Nastikas in human realm, but still possible just more time consuming.

I also belive that once the last Nastika dies, that's the end of this universe, somehow it fits with why Visnu tries to balance it and creating different realms, it's like the balance will cause the end of it... just a theory without much thinking yet, but it does somehow fit.

[Boredoom]

So there's somebody else who believes the same as me! (The part about Maras taking over as animal population).

Maras is eaten mostly, but then again there's fish fillets & beef jerky, now I do wonder where they come from, seeing as there's no (not shown at least) animals.

[youngdoom]

Hi, I've been a long time lurker, but I have followed the Kubera forums for a while now.

So far there have been at least two (that I can remember) instances where we see animals. They aren't stock animals like cows or pigs though. Just some rabbits and birds.

In chapter 43, Yuta is walking around with some birds singing.
http://vatoto.com/read/_/80761/kubera_v1_ch43_by_the-company

In chapter 57, god Kubera is feeding some rabbits
http://vatoto.com/read/_/94535/kubera_v1_ch57_by_the-company


Sorry I couldn't figure out how to paste the pictures directly, so I just pasted the links

Edited by youngdoom, 19 November 2012 - 07:22 PM.

[Akasha]

Then there is this small green animal Kaz Lehn (the young guy and Kuberas friend from back then when she lived her village ... by the way ... just noticed right now, is he really triple Nil?) keeps on top of his head as we saw him during Sagaras infiltration while she was on her way to Brilith.

But since many animals we saw until now appered to be rather strange, either it´s some strange case of biology or they are low, low, low level Sura (the last guess is unlikely, based on how people appear to treat them).

Guess humans don´t have an easy time but there appear to be some things that powerful magic users can still do. Briliths Bhavati Agni (with her triple Agni attribute and excellent divine affinity of beyond 2.000) managed to be a threat to Sagara in her human form, so other - more skilled and powerful - magic users should still be a considerable threat, even if they still have to fight as team ands use other means (like transcedentals or god items) to oppose such powerful opponents ("average" human form Nastika, 3th and 4th stage Rakasha). Sura form Nastika are certainly beyond the abilities of humans to face, tough.

Rindhallow apperas to have a rather nasty reputation among Suras and they seemingly hesitate to attack this city ... guess their "death magic" isn´t harmless even if put to test against stronger Sura.

Edited by Akasha, 19 November 2012 - 07:46 PM.

[fiveseconds]

I wouldn't go so far as to say a threat... she wasn't going to kill Sagara any time soon. Sagara just happened to go psycho over that one little injury. Brilith injured her far worse psychologically than she did physically.

And yep, Kaz is triple Nil. It's shown on his profile in the blog.

[Mizura]

In my google translation of races, it mentions that organisms are divided into 4 categories: Astika, Sura, Human and Others: animals, planets etc.
Also, humans eat beef and drink milk, so there are cows around. Some Sura parts are considered delicacies, but I think most humans are likely eating non-Sura animals (if they're delicacies, it means they're Not eating them often). So, it's just Currygom not drawing them, I'm pretty sure there are lots of animals around.

In terms of strength, I'd guess:
- Pureblood humans are weaker than Maras, obviously.
- Quarters are probably equal in strength to low-level Maras. Halfs should be on par physically with mid-to-high level Mara, probably. Many Halfs are hiding in regions with a lot of Sura to escape from hunters, so they should at least be able to survive the occasional Mara encounter.
- An average team of 2 magicians are supposed to be able to handle a group of Maras on non-equal terms (i.e., the Maras are sure to die, but the magicians are expected to survive), so I'd guess that they could probably equal a low-level Upani.
- Fighter Halfs using transcendentals can probably also equal Upanis.
- An exceptional magician like Asha can handle upani up to 4th level with no problem. So she's equal to... well, dunno.
- A group of magicians can take down a mid-level Rakshasa with some trouble.

Halfs are strong physically, but remember that in the flashback about N0, it was said that if it weren't for the nasty shock of having those close to them turn against them, many magicians could have bested the Halfs. This means that high-level magicians at least are actually stronger than most Halfs. So... yeah, human civilians are the weakest, but magicians are decent in power.

Apart from that:
- Rakshasa all seem weaker than 5-zen Gods, we don't know how they compared to lower-level Gods though.
- All Gods are weaker than Nastika.

[themantarays]

Hi, I've been a long time lurker, but I have followed the Kubera forums for a while now.

Sorry I couldn't figure out how to paste the pictures directly, so I just pasted the links

Hi youngdoom! Thank you for creeping out of the shadows! Actually it's better to just post the links because otherwise it takes up a huge amount of space (unless you use spoiler tags). If you want to know for future reference, the easiest way is to just upload the picture to imgur or photobucket or something similar, then copy and paste the BB Code.

As others said, they eat meat at restaurants regularly, and of course low level sura also have to eat something, right? Plus, there are more animals than can be directly placed into the categories of Sura.

[Boredoom]

In my google translation of races, it mentions that organisms are divided into 4 categories: Astika, Sura, Human and Others: animals, planets etc.
Also, humans eat beef and drink milk, so there are cows around. Some Sura parts are considered delicacies, but I think most humans are likely eating non-Sura animals (if they're delicacies, it means they're Not eating them often). So, it's just Currygom not drawing them, I'm pretty sure there are lots of animals around.

In terms of strength, I'd guess:
- Pureblood humans are weaker than Maras, obviously.
- Quarters are probably equal in strength to low-level Maras. Halfs should be on par physically with mid-to-high level Mara, probably. Many Halfs are hiding in regions with a lot of Sura to escape from hunters, so they should at least be able to survive the occasional Mara encounter.
- An average team of 2 magicians are supposed to be able to handle a group of Maras on non-equal terms (i.e., the Maras are sure to die, but the magicians are expected to survive), so I'd guess that they could probably equal a low-level Upani.
- Fighter Halfs using transcendentals can probably also equal Upanis.
- An exceptional magician like Asha can handle upani up to 4th level with no problem. So she's equal to... well, dunno.
- A group of magicians can take down a mid-level Rakshasa with some trouble.

Halfs are strong physically, but remember that in the flashback about N0, it was said that if it weren't for the nasty shock of having those close to them turn against them, many magicians could have bested the Halfs. This means that high-level magicians at least are actually stronger than most Halfs. So... yeah, human civilians are the weakest, but magicians are decent in power.

Apart from that:
- Rakshasa all seem weaker than 5-zen Gods, we don't know how they compared to lower-level Gods though.
- All Gods are weaker than Nastika.

MIzura strikes again! Now I gotta think if there's anything i can add X.x

Some half can probably best good magicians, and suras, depending on their Transcendentals. (I think).

.... D; can't even figure something out to add :I darn it

[BriarRose]

The reason we don't see the other animals (like cows, etc.) might be because they are raised in hidden or well protected places to avoid attracting sura and losing all there animals, afterall most sura are carnivores.

[Arie Hon]

The reason we don't see the other animals (like cows, etc.) might be because they are raised in hidden or well protected places to avoid attracting sura and losing all there animals, afterall most sura are carnivores.

Sura's eat suras . Not other animals ;p.
Remember the chapter about yuta with shuri.
Animals have too little meat.

[Boredoom]

Sura's eat suras . Not other animals ;p.
Remember the chapter about yuta with shuri.
Animals have too little meat.

So why do low rank Suras chase humans if not for food?

[Arie Hon]

So why do low rank Suras chase humans if not for food?

Sport ? . Training ? . Or maybe those sura are so weak they cant even kill other sura.

[Akasha]

Sura need a base food source (that is ... "not other Sura" and as well something that doesn´t consume meat) ... otherwise, the ecological system wouldn´t make much sense.

[Goobera]

I think the common low level Mara attack anything that moves when hungry, no matter what it is, and especially if it is smaller than them. They are not smart enough to sense that Yuta is a high level Sura, we have seen how a Mara attacked him in one of the beginning chapters... So many Mara will attack humans, or animals, or smaller looking Sura, as soon as they see them, and then it would make sense to keep the farm animals closed up in a safe place, probably within city limits/city Barriers.

[Arie Hon]

Animals>Humans>Mara>Upani>Rakshasa>Nastika>Me

[Eleean]

Actually, it was never said that Suras only eat other Suras. And we know of a few of them who have an almost complete diet, depending on the clan. Anyway, it may be possible, based on the talk Yuta and Taraka had, high level Suras need their food to be more precios, to have some sort of power that they are able to recognize, and that's why they don't usually eat "common human food".

And animals do exist, we have seen them on Kubera's plate. And on everyone's, of course, but Leez knows better how to cherish food, so that we'll never forget her glorious eating.

Going back to the main topic, but leaving aside the human-versus-suras (not going back to the main topic ._.), I would gladly see a fight involving Astika and Nastika, and I'm not so sure about the outcome, since a battle is not always fought with mere strenght.

Edited by Eleean, 22 November 2012 - 01:23 AM.

[Boredoom]

Animals>Humans>Mara>Upani>Rakshasa>Nastika>Me

>Universe>Primeval God>Anything> and ME!>Nothing can be here.(except Mizura's translations)

Actually, it was never said that Suras only eat other Suras. And we know of a few of them who have an almost complete diet, depending on the clan. Anyway, it may be possible, based on the talk Yuta and Taraka had, high level Suras need their food to be more precios, to have some sort of power that they are able to recognize, and that's why they don't usually eat "common human food".

And animals do exist, we have seen them on Kubera's plate. And on everyone's, of course, but Leez knows better how to cherish food, so that we'll never forget her glorious eating.

Going back to the main topic, but leaving aside the human-versus-suras (not going back to the main topic ._.), I would gladly see a fight involving Astika and Nastika, and I'm not so sure about the outcome, since a battle is not always fought with mere strenght.

I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THAT TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

Maybe a flasback (long & detailed one) of Nastika & Astika in fights. I would really love to see a size comparasion as well as their Transcendentals.