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What would happen if...


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#1
Mystery

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A noble made a contract with another noble? Is it even possible?

Maybe Rai had a contract with the previous lord which is why he can also control blood?!!
Any thoughts?

#2
Urek Mazino

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It seems possible.
Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#3
krackenker

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As it's been said:
The Nobles have two figures that we hold in high esteem, one is the political ruler, the Lord.
The other one is the Noblesse what watches over us with his almighty power, Cadiz.... Raizel is the Noblesse.
(it was something like that, that Regis grandpa said (sudden black out and forgot his name)

As the strongest being Rai should have the controll over blood and to me it's more likely that Lord position is somehow contracted into governing blood then the Noblesse. (however I think that both is able to as their own power, just that the Noblesse is stronger.. he is the 'power' of the two beings of power (other one is political leader)

#4
Mystery

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As the strongest being Rai should have the controll over blood and to me it's more likely that Lord position is somehow contracted into governing blood then the Noblesse. (however I think that both is able to as their own power, just that the Noblesse is stronger.. he is the 'power' of the two beings of power (other one is political leader)


The Noblesse is the symbol of power so I guess it would make sense if Rai is (or was) stronger even than the previous Lord.
It could be like you say...


It is also possible that the Lord actually decides who the Noblesse is!
Who else could give the Noblesse the "absolute authority/right" to punish/kill other Nobles as per his judgement?
The Lord chooses a powerful noble whom he can trust and then forms a contract(the Lord takes blood).
The contracted noble gains even stronger power. So his own original powers in addition to those obtained by entering in a contract with the Lord(who himself would be pretty strong) effectively making him the symbol of power aka Noblesse.

Edited by Arawn, 01 November 2012 - 02:11 PM.


#5
Nihonomaruh

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The "previous Lord's" age is 2000+ and Rai's current age is 1000+ so does that mean Rai got his power from the "previous lord"? because Rai is only the Noblesse that has been intruduced in the whole Manhwa...

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#6
Urek Mazino

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The Noblesse is the symbol of power so I guess it would make sense if Rai is (or was) stronger even than the previous Lord.
It could be like you say...


It is also possible that the Lord actually decides who the Noblesse is!
Who else could give the Noblesse the "absolute authority/right" to punish/kill other Nobles as per his judgement?
The Lord chooses a powerful noble whom he can trust and then forms a contract(the Lord takes blood).
The contracted noble gains even stronger power. So his own original powers in addition to those obtained by entering in a contract with the Lord(who himself would be pretty strong) effectively making him the symbol of power aka Noblesse.

Rai's blood and soul are his Soul Weapon (according to Gejutel), I have a feeling the power of the Noblesse is genetic.

The "previous Lord's" age is 2000+ and Rai's current age is 1000+ so does that mean Rai got his power from the "previous lord"? because Rai is only the Noblesse that has been intruduced in the whole Manhwa...

I believe those ages are assumptions, the Previous Lord couldn't remember how long he had lived, Frankenstein has stated Rai has lived much longer than he has, Frankenstein is 820+ years old, so I don't think it means Rai was contracted by the Previous Lord but it doesn't mean he wasn't contracted (I'd think the contract would end after his death in that situation though).
Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#7
Mystery

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The "previous Lord's" age is 2000+ and Rai's current age is 1000+ so does that mean Rai got his power from the "previous lord"? because Rai is only the Noblesse that has been intruduced in the whole Manhwa...

...
Rai's blood and soul are his Soul Weapon (according to Gejutel), I have a feeling the power of the Noblesse is genetic.
...

This just got my brain racking!!
Off-topic:
From what we know the soul weapon is made of the souls of the ancestors.The ancestor's soul along with his powers is passed on in a physical form...

If you think about it, it should be impossible for anyone to use his own soul as a physical weapon.
How could anyone materialize his own soul and yet live to use it as a weapon? If the entire soul materialized into a weapon that being should die, right?
Maybe it's possible with a part of the soul (I think this what the previous lord and the Keirta clan leader did!)
This means that you can only have a physical soul weapon if you already possess someone else's soul-since you can't materialize your own soul.

Since Clan leaders pass on their own soul as soul-weapon, the same could be said about the Noblesse.
But if the previous Noblesse had passed his/her soul weapon to the current Noblesse aka Rai, Rai's soul weapon would have had a material form.

Now we know that Rai soul weapon doesn't have a material form.This means that there has been only one Noblesse so far and that is Rai!!

This also means that Rai actually doesn't have a soul weapon...
Or maybe that Rai uses part of his own soul as the soul weapon. This explains his weakening state after using his powers.
Since it's his own soul and moreover only a part of it, it cannot have a material form (not enough "quantity" for materialization?)

On-topic:
I think ever everyone missed the other part:
What would happen if a noble made a contract with another noble?
Since they are already prefect beings what would they turn into??

Edited by Arawn, 03 November 2012 - 04:36 PM.


#8
MGIBBS

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I wouldn't say that Rai has been the only noblesse. I agree with what you said about not being able to use your own soul as a soul weapon. That you must be given a soul first and from someone willing. But being a physicist myself I can't help but look at this from an energy (power) perspective.

From Einstein's E=mc^2 equation we understand that matter is highly compressed energy. To form a physical object a lot of energy is needed so the majority of the souls energy received goes into creating matter so only a fraction of the power can be utilised by the clan leader. To me this is why Rai is the strongest and why it damages him to use it. Since Rai's soul weapon, the souls of the previous Noblesse's he has received, has no physical form he gets to utilise all of the souls energy as power to supplement his own natural talents i.e mind control and blood control. I think all nobles can inherently use blood control (contracts) but to use a blood field requires a lot of power more than most nobles posses. Like a wire if you put more current through it than it can handle it will heat up and break i.e. a fuse. the higher the current the more energy loss to heat. rai's body is like a wire. it was designed to only hold one nobles power. mind control uses much less power than a blood field so Rai can easily use mind control without over heating.

forming a physical soul weapon might very well be a safety limiter to prevent nobles from using more power than their bodies can handle. The noblesse might either be the first clan to use a soul weapon before the danger was realised and subsequent clans learned to use a physical form or the noblesse deliberately overrides this to get more power.

#9
Urek Mazino

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Now we know that Rai soul weapon doesn't have a material form.This means that there has been only one Noblesse so far and that is Rai!!

What would happen if a noble made a contract with another noble?
Since they are already prefect beings what would they turn into??

First how you got to the conclusion that Rai has been the only Noblesse, I'll never understand, second I'd assume the Noble would get stronger, although such a thing is likely outlawed, I'll assume you meant perfect, if it's a Noble contracting a Noble why would a form change be necessary?
Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#10
strixflash

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I dont believe Rai had a contract with anyone. Well if Rai and Lord had then he would have known when Rai was in danger. This whole idea of contract seems BS to me.
Rai is the Noblesse, and I believe Noblesse have his own bloodline and thats the reason of their abnormal strength just like Lord. Well Rai have his own soul weapon(no physical form)~a point which further proves he is a part of strong family background(Previous Noblesse).
Seeing the current story progress I believe Rai will be the last as well. (You know I find its hilarious when someone says Shinwoo or Regis will be the next Noblesse.....)

Noblesse Forever!

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#11
Nihonomaruh

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What would happen if a noble made a contract with another noble? Since they are already prefect beings what would they turn into??


Hmmm... about this... how does a noble contract with a human? i think biting the human is not the answer because if they bite them they would turn into what they call "mutant" right? So i guess they form a contract by giving them some of their blood because vampires get their power from their blood right? So if a noble forms a contract with another noble doesnt make any sense at all because they had the same type of blood... so "a noble contracting another noble" is not even possible right? correct me if i am wrong this is only a made up theory for me... And nobles arent the "perfect beings" but the "NOBLESSE" itself is what you can call the perfect being because it is a given title to a specific being among the nobles...

Edited by Nihonomaruh, 04 November 2012 - 03:20 PM.

will_of_fire_by_manga_wolf-d5qr0am_zps43

 

"My sin is my own existence."

 
Νεχ ποσσυμ τεχυμ ωιωερε, νεχ σινε τε.
Nec possum tecum vivere, nec sine te.
I can live neither with you, nor without you.
 
Nihil Sine Nefas
Nothing without a sin

#12
Urek Mazino

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Hmmm... about this... how does a noble contract with a human? i think biting the human is not the answer because if they bite them they would turn into what they call "mutant" right? So i guess they form a contract by giving them some of their blood because vampires get their power from their blood right? So if a noble forms a contract with another noble doesnt make any sense at all because they had the same type of blood... so "a noble contracting another noble" is not even possible right? correct me if i am wrong this is only a made up theory for me... And nobles arent the "perfect beings" but the "NOBLESSE" itself is what you can call the perfect being because it is a given title to a specific being among the nobles...

We don't actually know if Nobles can contract Nobles hence all the speculation, so your theory could be right.

I dont believe Rai had a contract with anyone. Well if Rai and Lord had then he would have known when Rai was in danger. This whole idea of contract seems BS to me.
Rai is the Noblesse, and I believe Noblesse have his own bloodline and thats the reason of their abnormal strength just like Lord. Well Rai have his own soul weapon(no physical form)~a point which further proves he is a part of strong family background(Previous Noblesse).
Seeing the current story progress I believe Rai will be the last as well. (You know I find its hilarious when someone says Shinwoo or Regis will be the next Noblesse.....)

Good points, the Lord would've at least known if Rai was dead or alive, also you'd think someone would've noted Rai to have a similar aura if that was the case (the 12th Elder had a similar aura to his contractor). Shinwoo or Regis the next Noblesse, people actually think that?

Edited by Urek Mazino, 04 November 2012 - 08:51 PM.

Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#13
strixflash

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Good points, the Lord would've at least known if Rai was dead or alive, also you'd think someone would've noted Rai to have a similar aura if that was the case (the 12th Elder had a similar aura to his contractor). Shinwoo or Regis the next Noblesse, people actually think that?

Its common sense that Rai have his own power rather than depending on someone even if its Old Lord. Well just because he is governor of blood doesnt makes him a contractee with Lord. All the things so far have shown that he have his own powers(& a soul weapon,also a temple) though they are life consuming in nature.
Sigh~Even after all the explaination in season 3 & 4 how can someone come up with such a ridicuolous theory?
Now people will only believe if authors says that Rai and Old Lord didnt form a contract with each other,right?
People really lack sense to even understand such things......
Yup,there are hundreds of idiots who post theories in which they say that Rai will make Shinwoo or Regis as next Noblesse. Thankfully those idiots are not the members of Batoto :)

Edited by strixflash, 05 November 2012 - 06:59 AM.

Noblesse Forever!

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#14
Urek Mazino

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Its common sense that Rai have his own power rather than depending on someone even if its Old Lord. Well just because he is governor of blood doesnt makes him a contractee with Lord. All the things so far have shown that he have his own powers(& a soul weapon,also a temple) though they are life consuming in nature.
Sigh~Even after all the explaination in season 3 & 4 how can someone come up with such a ridicuolous theory?
Now people will only believe if authors says that Rai and Old Lord didnt form a contract with each other,right?
People really lack sense to even understand such things......
Yup,there are hundreds of idiots who post theories in which they say that Rai will make Shinwoo or Regis as next Noblesse. Thankfully those idiots are not the members of Batoto :)


I agree with your points, I wouldn't be too surprised if the Lord and Noblesse were in some way related. Yeah people may only believe things after the author states them, however I'm sticking to my "contracts end when either party dies" theory. Shinwoo the next Noblesse, ahh so funny, Frankenstein enhancing him is somewhat believable but it's still unlikely (more likely than Noblesse hax).
Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#15
Mystery

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First how you got to the conclusion that Rai has been the only Noblesse, I'll never understand, second I'd assume the Noble would get stronger, although such a thing is likely outlawed, I'll assume you meant perfect, if it's a Noble contracting a Noble why would a form change be necessary?

I assumed that if there had been a previous Noblesse he would have passed on his soul-weapon to Rai...
In this case the soul-weapon would have to be transferred in a physical form-since that's how the clan leaders and even the lord transferred their own souls along with their powers. So Rai's soul-weapon should have had a material form if he received it from a previous Noblesse. But it doesn't!! So he never received a soul weapon i.e there was no previous Noblesse who left Rai a soul-weapon!
Although MGIBBS explanation is also viable...

I dont believe Rai had a contract with anyone. Well if Rai and Lord had then he would have known when Rai was in danger. This whole idea of contract seems BS to me.
Rai is the Noblesse, and I believe Noblesse have his own bloodline and thats the reason of their abnormal strength just like Lord. Well Rai have his own soul weapon(no physical form)~a point which further proves he is a part of strong family background(Previous Noblesse).
Seeing the current story progress I believe Rai will be the last as well. (You know I find its hilarious when someone says Shinwoo or Regis will be the next Noblesse.....)

Crombell didn't knew Mary was in danger...
Seirra didn't knew Regis was in danger until their mental connection was broken.
(even if they don't have a contract it provides some reference as to how the connection works)
Roctis didn't knew that the 12th elder was in danger till he died, because he didn't keep check on elders activity 24/7.
Maybe the Lord also did the same? And only when Rai went to his sleep that the Lord realized that something was seriously wrong?

Its common sense that Rai have his own power rather than depending on someone even if its Old Lord. Well just because he is governor of blood doesnt makes him a contractee with Lord. All the things so far have shown that he have his own powers(& a soul weapon,also a temple) though they are life consuming in nature.
Sigh~Even after all the explaination in season 3 & 4 how can someone come up with such a ridicuolous theory?
Now people will only believe if authors says that Rai and Old Lord didnt form a contract with each other,right?
People really lack sense to even understand such things......
Yup,there are hundreds of idiots who post theories in which they say that Rai will make Shinwoo or Regis as next Noblesse. Thankfully those idiots are not the members of Batoto :)

I'm not saying Rai received all his power from the Lord.
The logic here is that the position of the Noblesse had to be bequeathed to somebody who followed the Noble's code of conduct without any compromise. And he had to be strong enough that he could punish even the Clan Leaders for their misconduct.
How many nobles do you think would fulfill these requirements?
It would be somewhat easy to find a noble who followed the Noble's code faithfully but the probability of him being stronger than several clan leaders combined is very low!! Only the Lord would qualify.
So it makes sense to assume that the position of Noblesse comes with some powers, possibly through some sort of ritual.
And making a contract with a strong noble is probably the easiest and fastest way to gain power mentioned so far.

Good points, the Lord would've at least known if Rai was dead or alive, also you'd think someone would've noted Rai to have a similar aura if that was the case (the 12th Elder had a similar aura to his contractor). Shinwoo or Regis the next Noblesse, people actually think that?

I will admit the aura similarity is something that's hard to disprove.
But then again, what if Rai actually had contract with another Lord that ruled before Raskreia's Father?

Edited by Arawn, 05 November 2012 - 03:48 PM.


#16
strixflash

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There is no limit to retardness~
Every time it was said that Rai have his own powers (Please read Season 3 & 4).All his powers are his own.

Now you want authors to show a point which doesnt even exist? You know if you continue like this then thousand more rubbish theories can formed....
Ok,I lost.....You seriousley have given up on common sense.

Noblesse Forever!

Spoiler

#17
Urek Mazino

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I assumed that if there had been a previous Noblesse he would have passed on his soul-weapon to Rai...
In this case the soul-weapon would have to be transferred in a physical form-since that's how the clan leaders and even the lord transferred their own souls along with their powers. So Rai's soul-weapon should have had a material form if he received it from a previous Noblesse. But it doesn't!! So he never received a soul weapon i.e there was no previous Noblesse who left Rai a soul-weapon!
Although MGIBBS explanation is also viable..

I will admit the aura similarity is something that's hard to disprove.
But then again, what if Rai actually had contract with another Lord that ruled before Raskreia's Father?

It's been stated that Rai can't use any of the summoned soul weapons. To answer your question, auras auras everywhere, I have no doubts that Raskreia would've seen her grandfather's aura at least once. So either Raskreia or Gejutel would've made some sort of note about a contract if there was one.

Edited by Urek Mazino, 05 November 2012 - 09:27 PM.

Disclaimer: I'm often rude without realising it so try not to get too offended.

#18
MGIBBS

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If the position of noblesse is passed on through bloodline. Then, if there was a previous noblesse you would expect a clan with the noblesse as a clan leader. But Rai lived in that mansion alone until Frankenstein arrived. I got the impression that the older nobles were uncomfortable in Rai's presence so he avoided them since he could sense their discomfort. he had a large mansion so at one point a large family lived there. I don't see Rai caring if he lives in a mansion or a small house, so he wasn't alone when he moved in there otherwise he would have had a smaller place. the mansion was either given to the Noblesse for becoming the noblesse or he was born in that house and inherited it. What happened to his family?

However, Gejutel called the Noblesse one of their honoured beings but in the shadows so only clan leaders and above knew his identity. Under that reasoning no one should have been bothered that he was noblesse since they wouldn't have known. If noblesse is a hereditary title and the noblesse's life is fragile due to his extreme power then rai should have at least had interactions with the nobles in the past to look for a wife to have children with. Rai has always been about duty in season 3 so he would have had a duty to ensure that there was a successor, since the noblesse has a duty to protect the nobles from rogue nobles. The questions of why Rai lived alone and why nobody but Frankenstein has cared about rai's safety will be of great help in determining the origins of the noblesse. Did he never have a family to look after him when he was a child? Why did rai never start a family of his own?

#19
SevenSeven

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Ok,I lost.....You seriousley have given up on common sense.

Abandon all intelligence all ye who enter here!