98 replies to this topic

[5Cats]

@Alexandre: Yeah, they'd have to be nuclear! Otherwise they'd burn literally thousands of gallons of fuel per hour. Heck, per minute! Second?
The scenes of them sliding into port with no tugboat escort are also not realistic, since a ship THAT big would take forever to stop. However, that's tiny potatoes compared to other stuff!

I like the huge ship idea, although the Pravda one is getting rediculous! What's with the "sloped bow" on that thing? It's like 4 km long and serves no Earthly purpose! lolz! Just because "Russian carriers look like that" is no excuse...

Nifty link @Pseudonym, thx! That blogger really likes G&P too!

As for the national vs international: It seems regular G&P just shows Japanese teams (which often (or all except Ooarai?) have nation-specific tanks) while other "branches" of the G&P storyline also show international teams & competitions.

Why would any team limit themselves to one nations tanks if they're ALL crappy? I have no idea... (Italy, Japan, France even) One would expect teams with big money to stock up on the best panzers available, regardless of national origin, eh?
Black Forrest comes close to that, with it's seemingly invincable collection of panzers...

[5Cats]

@Gene Eric Pseudonym: I'm just re-watching G&P #1 now, and something occured to me.
In the opening, Miho says "try to keep the engine noise down". Right?
I've complained about that already, idk about @rockgollum.
The fact is: as much as I just love G&P! It has a LOT of flaws! Many of these flaws are simply inexcusable!
The opponents tanks are racing cross-country, at maximum speed (all of 12MPH or less!) while buttoned up! And Miho is concerned with "engine noise? srsly. That's just stupid.

Then there's a wonderful "drive by" scene which (iirc) @rockgollum didn't like, but I just loved it!

And when Miho takes a shot at them, and (while buttoned up mind you!) they instantly turn and accurately return fire? NOT realistic at all! (@RG complained bitterly about it & I agree)

My point? And I do have one, is that @RG, myself and others have every right AND valid issues in complaining about G&P!
However, I personally think it's fantastic! I think @RG likes it too.
Just because I bitch & complain about the details doesn't mean I don't love it! Not speaking for @RG but I'm thinking he's about the same way too.

Seriously hoping the final episodes will make it all worthwhile AND lead to season 2!

5Cats!

PS: "Strawberry sponge cakes are the best!"

Edited by 5Cats, 10 February 2013 - 02:29 AM.

[Gene Eric Pseudonym]

Since it's addressed to me specifically, this time I'll respond.

In the opening, Miho says "try to keep the engine noise down". Right?
[...]
And when Miho takes a shot at them, and (while buttoned up mind you!) they instantly turn and accurately return fire? NOT realistic at all! (@RG complained bitterly about it & I agree)

In isolation, yes, that does appear to be an inexcusable flaw.

But repeated enough that it's difficult to dismiss it as coincidence, including for the main cast (e.g. episode 6, when Miho immediately turned around inside her also buttoned up tank towards where the Firefly fired from, and both her and Yukari popped up from their hatches to face it straight away)? Adding them up, that makes it seem far less likely to be an unintentional mistake, and more likely to be a deliberate choice.

Unrealistic in the context of being compared to real-life? Yes, obviously so... But if it was a deliberate choice instead of an unintentional mistake, does that also leave open the possibility that Miho (in-universe) knows something that we (the audience) doesn't, when she cautioned her team about engine noise? Well, now that I've brought it up as something to think about, you can make up your own mind about it.

My point? And I do have one, is that @RG, myself and others have every right AND valid issues in complaining about G&P!

Allow me to quote what I said in this post:

I'm not saying that the series is perfect, it's not. I'm not saying that they could not have done a lot better for realism (without sacrificing plot and dramatic impact), they most certainly could have. But given that they make it quite clear from the very beginning that they weren't trying for documentary-level realism, those with unrealistic expectations about realism in this series have only themselves to blame.

[rockgollem]

Some ridiculous internet shit is going on with my provider, so I had problem coming around.

Back and we'll see what happens when new episode comes.

[Alexandre Charron-trudel]

episode 11 summary, since the raw is up (edited for the commie subs version, posted just 15 hours after the tv episode aired)

 

from the beginning of the episode, Miho's team is thoroughly outmatched: miho starts with the following:

 

1. Panzer Mk IV Ausf H, with Schurzen (spaced armor) (flag tank), produced in 1944--80mm of frontal unsloped armor, 30mm of side armor (not including armor skirts) and 20mm of rear armor, and armed with a 75mm L43 cannon, effective against up to 77mm of armor at 1,830 meters

 

2. Panzerjager 38(t) "Hetzer", 60mm of armor sloped at 60 degrees for a total of 120mm of front armor, armed with a 75mm L48 cannon, with similar armor penetration capabilities; it has just 20mm of side armor, and 10mm of rear armor, and is blind to the right side.

 

3. a VK4501, aka the Porsche Tiger, with the 88mm KwK L56, capable of penetrating 99mm of armor at 500 meters and boasting 200mm of front armor. Prone to breakdown.

 

4. a Type 89 otsu, produced in the early 1930s. armed with one 57mm ant-fortification gun, capapble of penetrating 35mm of steel armor at 100 meters. frontal armor sloped at 80 degrees, 17mm.

 

5. a Char B1 Bis, produced in 1928-1935, 60mm of front and side armor, front sloped at 80 degrees. Armament: 1 47mm L32 cannon, capable of penetrating up to 67mm of armor at 100 meters, and one 75mm howitzer, hull mounted, with similar capabilities to the original 75mm assault gun mounted on the Pz Mk. IV.

 

6. a M3 Lee, 50mm of front armor sloped at 80 degrees, for a max of ~70mm of armor. Armament was one M3 75mm gun, with a max penetration of 94mm of armor at 500 yards and one 37mm m4 cannon in a turret, with no penetration capabilities worth mentioning.

 

7. one Type 3 Chi-nu, a renovated Chi-Ha with a Type 3 75mm anti-aircraft gun, max penetration of 63mm of armor at 1000 yards. had 50mm of unsloped armor at the front. (knocked out)

 

8. One Sturmgeschutz III, 80mm of front armor and one 75mm L43 gun. 105mm max penetration.

 

versus the Kuromorimine team of 20 vehicles:

 

1. two Tiger IIs, mounting the same gun as the VK4501, with 120mm of sloped frontal armor at 60 degrees, for a maximum armor thickness of 240mm of frontal armor

 

2. one Jagdpanzer Tiger (Elefant/Ferdinand), with 200mm of frontal armor (flat) and the same 88mm cannon. prone to breaking down on hills.

 

3. one JagdPanther, 90mm sloped frontal armor and using the 75mm KwK L70, with a minimum armor penetration of 140mm of armor at 500 yards

 

4. one Panzer V Tiger, 100mm of slightly sloped front armor and one 88mm KwK L56 cannon

 

5. Six Pz VI "Panther" Ausf. G tanks, armed with one 75mm KwK L70 cannon and 70mm of armor sloped at 60 degrees

 

6. Six JagdPanzer IV 80mm of unsloped armor, and one 75mm KwK L70.

 

7. one Jagdtiger, with 200mm of frontal sloped armor and one 128mm KwK L70 main gun.

 

8. one Panzer III

 

9: by the end of the episode, a maus. Specifically, the Maus has 250mm of armor on the front hull, a total of 220mm of sloped armor on the front, nearly 500mm of armor between the turret mantlet and the turret front, and 210mm on the turret sides, rear, hull sides and hull rear. Thankfully, it only goes 8.5 miles per hour but with a 128mm main gun with 32 rounds, backed up by a 75mm L48 gun with 200 rounds, it doesn't need to. There was no single tank in WWII that would have been able to defeat it, either in development or on the battlefield of the period; the Maus would likely be unable to defeat itself.

 

Words do not describe just how badly outmatched the Oorai team is. This isn't a match, it's a slaughter; only 6 of the 8 Oorai tanks can penetrate or damage any of the blackforest tanks, and one of those is knocked out. of those six, only one can penetrate any of the tanks frontally, and the others must ambush from the side. The Maus might as well be an invincible bulwark, if only for its mechanical problems (crippling) and the fact that its maximum speed is just 11kph (8.5 mph). That said, Miho can't be cited for lack of effort; her first strategy is to pop smoke dispensers, and then head for the top of the local hill, towing the VK4501( Tiger P) to prevent its engine from burning out, and then settling into hull down positions, popping smoke all the while.

 

5:32: The student council's hetzer--true to its name--meanwhile, hides in a local forest and successfully  disables a jagdpanther (tracked), and then a Panther (side hull penetrated(?)) in short order, retreating thereafter. Overall, excellent use of tactics. Considering the high production values of this episode, however, its clear that Oorai has dispensed with the party attitude and is now showing that their training has paid off.

 

6:11: with the smoke cleared, the rest of the Oorai team has gone hull down on the hill, even angling their armor to make up for its thinness, allowing for shots to ricochet off their front armor.

 

6:50: Kurominemori begins advancing UP the hill, not a good idea: while their additional sloping on the armor grants them a bonus, their machines are prone to breakdown and their top armor is thin, which is shown when...

 

7:10 Oorai's StuG knocks out a Panther by striking it on the top of its hull as it begins to climb up hill.

 

7:27: Miho's Panzer IV knocks out a Jagdpanzer IV. Overall, Both sides are making excellent use of tactics, but Miho has made the mistake of putting her tanks on a hill, where they would be naturally vulnerable due to the fact that their guns cannot depress downwards to any signficant degree.

 

Count thus far: Oorai: three killed or disabled (out of 20)  Kuromorimine: 1 (out of 8). Kuromorimine's tradtional strategy of steamrolling is not doing them justice as the team that won nine international tourneys.

 

7:41: and then Kuromorimine brings forward their JagdTiger, using it as an armored battering ram.....and Oorai begins to falter as all of their shots bounce off of it.

 

8:37: meanwhile, their Hetzer, in the perfect place to ambush Kuromorimine, is sitting at the bottom of the hill....apparently, however, this was all part of the plan

 

9:21: Hetzer's gonna Hetz! the student council takes out the same jagdpanther it tracked earlier this time by tracking again, totalling four kills or disables thus far. Wow, Kuromorimine is really getting outmaneuvered.

 

10:03: WHAT?! YOU WERE BEHIND THE ENEMY TEAM, STOPPED IN THE MIDDLE OF THEIR FORMATION, AND THEN PROCEEDED TO MANUEVER THROUGH IT TO REACH YOUR TEAM?! JUST HOW RETARDED ARE YOU?! YOU COULD HAVE TAKEN OUT THEIR ENTIRE TEAM FROM BEHIND!

 

10:15: the Hetzer: (baiter) lives up to its name again by distracting the entire kuromorimine team, which turns to shoot it, displaying their side armor and allowing for the easy kill of yet another JagdPanzer IV, this time by Miho's Panzer IV. This does not make up for the fact that the hetzer could have taken out the flag panzer or at least three other vehicles before they could turn around fast enough to retaliate, which would have instantly opened them up to fire from the rest of Miho's team.

 

10:19: holy shit...the entire Kuromorimine team just fell apart.

 

10:40 Kate, leader of the Saunders team, mentions something along the lines that what has effectively saved Kuromorimine time and time again is that they follow one strategy that is enabled by their use of German armor, and that they can't really adapt well despite their harsh training.

 

10:50.......and Kuromorimine RETREATS DOWN THE HILL, front armor forward. They certainly know their stuff.

 

10:55: and Oorai chases them down the hill.....this isn't going to end well; Oorai just threw away the one advantage they had.

 

11:10: the Tiger Porsche is used as a battering ram, reflecting everything thrown at it. Smart, but still a stupid move in the first place.

 

11:13: and Oorai rushes right past the Kuromorimine formations (facepalm), leaving their entire rear open to enemy fire.

 

11:20: but apparently their B1 Bis is loaded with infinite refills of smoke, it's the ultimate halloween vehicle!

 

11:46: and the Porsche Tiger breaks down via an overheated radiator. Wonderful. Oh... wow...one of the Automobile Club Crews gets out of their tank and starts fixing the tank while its still rolling. I don't know whether to decide whether she's insane or she's just got balls of adamantium.

 

12:15: and then Miss Inquisitor's Tiger II breaks down via derailed track and damaged suspension, another stroke of luck for Miho's flag tank, riding as always at the back of the formation. Now, in real life, the position that Tiger II is in would necessitate hours of repair, and would put it out of the match; that girl should not be able to roll that roadwheel, which most likely weighs over 500 pounds.

 

12:18: I guess that's what you get for engineering a vehicle so heavy (70 tons) that its own suspension can't handle prolonged use. Same problem with the IS-3, actually.

 

1306: let's go swimming! Too bad the M3 Lee's engine got flooded in the process...this is why, ladies and gentlemen, you do not ford rivers in tanks without prior preparation!

 

17:35, and in a near repeat of Miho's original crisis, they manage to tow the lee out of the river.

 

18:00 Maho should not have been able to see that Hetzer, and the Panther would not have been able to rotate around fast enough to shoot reliably at the student council's vehicle.

 

18:30 wow, the auto club must have installed a jet engine in the Tiger (P); it quadruples its speed to cross a bridge as it collapses under the tank's weight, and rockets past Miho's tank at at least 50mph.

 

19:45.....and the entire Oorai Team got baited by a Panzer III....guess what happens next?

 

20:22: HERE COMES THE MAUSSSSS! it pulls out of a side alley...the Oorai team fell for a simple trap hook, line and sinker.

 

20:45:.....fail: the maus is so huge that it can't rotate the turret around between the apartment blocks, and smashes its main gun into the side of an apartment building! now, in real life this would totally ruin the gun and make the vehicle combat ineffective, but this is not reality. prepare to watch Oorai get its teeth kicked in, because there was no tank in production, short of a modern MBT, that would be capable of withstanding that monster.

 

21:00: the Maus fires ONE shell, which disables (but doesn't flag) the Hetzer by spinning it around just by passing near it, and then fires a second shell which FLIPS(!) the B1 Bis over on its roof. no one is getting out of that alive. Anime logic intervenes; ordinarily, Sodoko and Co. would have been red paste on the inside of their vehicle, and that shell would have gone straight through their tank and out the other side.....

 

21:45: the Maus fires a third time, tracking the Tiger P, but otherwise not damaging it.

 

21:59: Stug Destroyed, tracked and flipped over on its side, but not flagged. Oorai is down to the PZIV, the Lee, and the Type 89, unless the Tiger P and the Hetzer get repaired, and none of them are capable of damaging the Maus in any way. Meanwhile, the other 15 surviving tanks of the Kuromorimine team advance towards the city, battle damage from Ooorai's hetzer having been repaired.
 GAME. MATCH. SET. A collorary, however, at 188 tons, if they manage to track the Maus by flanking the heck out of it, there is no way that the Maus' crew will be able to fix the damn thing, considering that its tracks alone must weigh 20 tons each, but the problem is that the rest of Maho's 17 vehicles are on the way, and I sincerely doubt that Miho's group (or what remains of it) will be able to flank the beast in time. Entering the city has put the Oorai team at decisive disadvantage; if they were equal in number, Miho's urban warfare strategy might work, but really all Maho has to do now is tighten the noose block by block and it'll be over.

 

In review, one gets the distinct feeling that the reason why Kuromorimine is winning is because it is cheating; the Maus was not on the field at the beginning with the rest of the formation, and the max number of vehicles on the field is 20; so far, Kuromorimine has: 2 tiger IIs, one tiger, one Panzer III, one Maus, six Jagdpanzers IVs, six panthers (one knocked out), one JagdTiger Ferdinand, one JagdPanther and 1 JagdTiger. So Kuromorimine has the requisite number of vehicles, but i suspect that the Maus was not authorized, since no vehicle on the Oorai team would be able to defeat it; bringing the Maus to the field is like bringing a car to a football match as the last player.

Edited by Alexandre Charron-trudel, 19 March 2013 - 02:53 AM.

[5Cats]

Excellent review @Alexandre! I'll just add my $0.02 and pick some nits...

Like THAT'S a surprise!

 

First of all: I called the Maus! Ep.9 I think. We were counting up the Black Forrest team and came to 19, I said the #20 could be a Maus, wouldn't THAT be fun? And lo! there it is.

 

From your post:

Oarai team: #4 and #5 are also VERY slow! But often are shown keeping pace easily with the others, or fleeing a tank twice as fast as they are (the Sherman).

Words do not describe just how badly outmatched the Oorai team is.

Yup! That's an understatement! This battle should have ended in the first scene, but Miho only lost 1 (one!) tank? oy-vey!

its clear that Oorai has dispensed with the party attitude and is now showing that their training has paid off.

Yup! And I did say that the early "mistakes" they made were on purpose (by the creators) so that the girls could be learning as they go along... @Rock-G hated those scenes! But I figured they were deliberate. Miho IS a tanker's daughter after all (Yo! her Mama was a tanker   eh?) So she knows what she's doing out there.

"10:03" I thought this was "on purpose" so the rest of the team could escape, but yeah, putting a 75mm hole in the arse of the Black Forrest flag tank would have been a better idea...

"10:19" Yup! They train to attack, attack and then attack some more! It's BF's motto after all.

"11:13" That's Miho's "patented" maneuver "Drive Right Through The Enemy Line^tm " without shooting! = lolz!

"11:20" The B1 is as big as a house! Lots of room for tons of smoke! The others seem to have run out. idk how the Type.89 still has smoke, it's TINY!

"11:46" The girls in the auto-club turn me on something fierce! Oh to be in this anime universe! Oops, that's rather perverted of me, better edit it out... "Stainless Steel Balls" on those girls! Yummy!

"17:35" I thought this was the best part of the series so far! Touching yet funny. Consistent with character? Double-check! And they had the cables from their "pull the Tiger" plan = brilliant writing!

Hee hee, "yank the tiger" hee...

"18:30" Nitrous-oxide? Seriously though: I really love the auto-club girls...

"21:00" yeah, the "Hollywood" near-miss special effect! I've complained bitterly about it before. It's especially annoying when they got the "near miss" correct in other episodes! BUT it's part of the "genre" eh? Gotta have impressive, near-by explosions! I forgive them, it's what "the public" expects... I still find it highly amusing that the tanks have "surrender flags" built into their undersides! Like getting flipped over happens a lot! Lmao!

"21:45" Amazing rate of fire for GIRLS loading a MASSIVE round, eh? Oh well, it's all good fun!

In review, one gets the distinct feeling that the reason why Kuromorimine is winning is because it is cheating; the Maus was not on the field at the beginning with the rest of the formation,

True that! But I doubt it's "unauthorized" because Black Forrest knows the rules inside & out. Besides, it probably hasn't been used before since BF usually goes all-out attack and the Maus is purely defensive.

Why not make the Maus the flag-panzer? Because if it tossed a track, bogged down, broke down or ran out of gas = match over!

It wasn't at the starting point because it would take the entire match to get to the city, and would be out of gas by then! lolz! That part does seem like cheating.

And YUP! They're trapped in the city, with a Maus, and 15 huger panzers closing in on them!

Hense the last episoide is titled: A Battle Without Retreat eh?

 

It's just so good! I love this show to tiny pieces!

[Alexandre Charron-trudel]

@5cats: you mentioned that the girls would not be able to lift the shell for the128mm KwK 40. Correct; the shells weigh 68 pounds; the girls weigh at most--what, 110, 120?) they'd get severe back and muscular strain, and they'd be firing one round a minute at best, judging by their stature.

[Gene Eric Pseudonym]

Just a few quick points:

 

"10:50" was probably why the Turtle team did what they did (or didn't do) in "10:03". BF were in a panic and disarray from the surprise of realising all of a sudden that the Hetzer was mysteriously parked right in the middle of them, not doing anything. But as soon as they started taking serious fire in their direction again, they reacted by regaining discipline.

 

Don't forget that this series is in large part an affectionate parody of the school sport genre (especially of martial arts ones, like this), and much of the repetition and drilling in training is so that in the real thing, people will be able to react automatically. Miho taking advantage of this by giving the Turtle team specific instructions to troll BF in ways they'd have trouble coping with, instead of simply attacking or making a move on their flag tank (either of which they would react to), seems entirely in-character.

 

"18:00" Or she heard it. And this time Maho was expecting the Turtle team's shenanigans, so she didn't need her tank's turret rotate around fast enough, she already had another tank covering BF's flank. Maho's flag tank (marked 212) was already in the middle of the formation that was leaving by the time the Hetzer was retreating.

 

As for being able to move and lift things they should have difficulty or shouldn't be able to at all, time to throw realism off the bridge again... Or rather, this time, throw it down with the collapsing bridge.   

[rockgollem]

Episode 11

 

1:55 - Seems like the opponent has good line up of tanks. More than enough to obliterate protagonist's team many times over and then some more.

 

2:12 - Of course, Chi-ha with inexprience crew gets taken out first, not that it would have done much against their line up anyways.

 

3:53 - What? When did they have the time to dismount, unfurl the towing cable, link it up and secure it? I also doubt the ability of those 3 tanks to carry/tow speed it that fast to there.

 

4:43 - I understand they don't want to show everything, but all I keep seeing so far (from the pursuing force) is 2 Tiger 2 and 1 Tiger 1 with a glimpse of Panther. Need to show us more than those 4 when the contest said "20 tanks".

 

5:40 - This is why you don't blindly pursue... Especially in a formation like the one we saw. Wish I could say good job for protagonists, but honestly, it's still not that innovative or game changing.

 

6:17 - They're on top of that big of a hill already? Without any sort of road? Seems legit.

 

7:15 - The commander of the German team seems to be brain dead. They have the advantage, they have the number, they have the superior armour as well as gun and most importantly in situation like this, they have the superior gunnery as well as range. No need to commence an assault on hillside slope like that (which no real tank commander will ever order) when you can flush them out easily at range.

 

7:25 - "Send the Jagdtiger to the front" ooh, I'm so scared. Can't make up for my incompetence other than through superior tank. Obviously doesn't know what Tank Destroyer are suppose to do.

 

7:57 - More like battle of the incompetents.

 

9:18 - I highly doubt the competence of the commander if she can only spot an approaching tank (or Tank Destroyer since it's Jagpanzer 38t now) at that range. Also... why not just knocking out that Jagdpanther, they already have the back to them.  I don't understand the logic behind this.

 

9:40 - Once again, that commander of Jagdpanther should have been able to contact rest of the team via radio and alert them of presence of Hetzer. Also, that Hetzer could have knocked out alot of tanks, considering how many of enemy were showing their rear plate at good angles, but oh no, they choose to drive up beside them and let everybody know they're there. Genius.

 

9:48 - Not the Tokyo Drift again...

 

10:09 - Lacks battle order discipline. How did team like this even get to final/championship anyways? Oh wait, rest are just as bad, if not worse. Nevermind.

 

10:16 - One trick after another that wouldn't work if the girls in this world had half the common-sense and discipline.

 

10:51 - Yea, whoever thought of driving tank at full speed downhill from slope/hill side like that after a brief engagement... There's just so many things wrong with this.

 

11:45 - What is this? I don't even...

 

12:57 - Why they keep choosing to move in perfect line is beyond me. Also, river that deep and wide, yea, not recommended for tanks. There's a reason why combat engineers set up bridges for tanks when crossing water.

 

14:00 - Why are they telling the commander of the team to go save their ass? Seriously.

 

14:22 - Yes, instead of other tanks that can move going across the river and setting up defensive positions which they can provide lookout or covering fire from, they all just sit in middle of river like idiots. Genius.

 

15:03 - Nothing wrong with approaching it like that when everybody else is an idiot. Might as well as join the crowd than be a smart one.

 

15:17 - So... Three explanation for this. 1) Their world has less gravity 2) Their "human" physique is much greater than ours 3) It's bullshit

 

15:56 - So, crew of tanks closer to them couldn't have done it, and the commander of the team had to leap over what, 4 tanks to get there? And all the crew of M3 just standing there, doing nothing? Right. Great logic.

 

17:20 - I cannot imagine how the German team couldn't have caught them there by the river. They had plenty of time. Also, dust cloud is disporportionately large for the terrain and number of tanks there.

 

17:50 - Of course, the cable linking them together is magically gone when they come out of the water. Bravo, producers of GuP. Great job once more.

 

18:40 - I hope they realize that Panzer 4 could have shot the bridge as the first tank was crossing, knock the bridge down, taking out 1 tank in process and trapping rest of the team. But oh no, just let them cross. GuP Logic.

 

19:35 - Need for Speed going on again. Skipping.

 

20:10 - Now that is not fair. A Maus? Really? Way to nail the coffin shut.

 

21:08 - Not really sure that shot would actually flip over a B1,especially judging from the angle and placement of the shot.

 

Panzerlied was a nice touch.

 

 

Ending Note:

 

Once again, this is unbelievable one sided match to start with and the introduction of Maus only confirmed it. Our protagonists are going to need to pull some major bullshit to turn this one around, but I'm sure GuP logic will deliver once more. Also, I've now decided to coin the term "GuP Logic" for general all-purpose usage for, you all know what.

 

 

[5Cats]

Hey @Rock-G! (Hope you don't mind if I call you that, eh?)

 

Seems like the opponent has good line up of tanks

Understatement of the year!

 

4:43: They show some other BF tanks, but yeah they focus on the "big brutes" quite a lot. I was wondering where all the Pz-3 were, but one showed up later...

 

7:25 Yeah, the 128mm would open ANY of Oarai's tanks up at long range. Even the Porche Tiger's frontal armour! The big 88's on the Tiger-IIs also. AND the Ferdinand's 88... Why close in? They're sitting ducks! Even if they're "hull down" (which is very good) they're still dead meat.

Also: That wasn't much of a "flanking" maneuver, eh? More like a frontal assault...

 

9:48 - Not the Tokyo Drift again... Haha! I missed that one! I spotted the BF's Pz-3 doing it later, in the city...

 

12:23: Added note: Tiger-II are HUGE!

 

@Alexandre: "that girl should not be able to roll that roadwheel, which most likely weighs over 500 pounds." I missed this detail the first couple of viewings, it's at 12:26. Where did it come from? Did it pop off and roll away? lolz!

 

14:00 - Why are they telling the commander of the team to go save their ass? Because Miho is the hero! She's also the most experienced tanker... Ever play the game "Up Front"? She has a "berserk" card...

 

"Panzerlied was a nice touch." Huh? What? I missed it! Plz tell me where (and what) is. thx.

 

"GuP Logic" = cuteness rules!

[rockgollem]

Whatever you want to call me, as long as it's within reasonable boundary.

 

Panzerlied was playing on background from 21:10 - to the end.

 

Not sure why they wouldn't make Maus the flag tank and simply lure the enemy in to the trap they would set up with Tank Destroyers they have, and engage battle/pursue/drive to area they want with remaining tank.

 

Not a good strategy chasing enemy around like chicken with head cut off.

[5Cats]

Why not make the Maus the flag-panzer? Because if it tossed a track, bogged down, broke down or ran out of gas = match over!

I quote myself (It's in my post, above)

 

ic, thanks for explaining it.

 

I really DO NOT like the new Batoto format. It's ugly and hard to read. The previous format was nice, easy to understand...

 

*grumble grumble*

[Alexandre Charron-trudel]

I quote myself (It's in my post, above)

 

ic, thanks for explaining it.

 

I really DO NOT like the new Batoto format. It's ugly and hard to read. The previous format was nice, easy to understand...

 

*grumble grumble*

if only Oorai had a super pershing; i recently read "Deathtraps: the Survival of an American Armored Division in WWII", and this is the author's account of the Super Pershing, the tank that he himself built:

 

"Anyone standing behind an M4 Sherman could see the projectile go out and curve down slightly as it sped toward the target. This new high-velocity gun was entirely different. When we fired the first round, we could barely see the projectile. It appeared to rise slightly as it struck the target. This was an optical illusion, but the effect was awesome. When it hit the target, sparks shot about sixty feet into the air, as though a giant grinding wheel had hit a piece of metal. When we looked at the target, I was dumbfounded. The 90mm projectile penetrated four inches of armor; went through a five-inch final drive differential shaft, the fighting compartment, and the rear partition of the fighting compartment; penetrated the four-and-a-half-inch crankshaft of the Maybach engine and the one-inch rear armor plate; and dug itself into the ground so deep that we could not locate it. Although we had been told by the ordnance officers from Aberdeen that the tank gun could penetrate thirteen inches of armor at a hundred yards, it was still difficult to believe this awesome power. We all realized that we had a weapon that could blast the hell out of even the most powerful German Mark VI Tiger."

Cooper, Belton Y. (2007-12-18). Death Traps: The Survival of an American Armored Division in World War II (Kindle Locations 4172-4181). Random House Publishing Group. Kindle Edition.

 

Translation: 13 inches of armor is 325 millimeters of armor; that round went through a Jagdpanzer IV's 90mm sloped front armor, through its engine, transmission and out the back, burying iteself 10ft plus into the ground, from a mile and half away.  What's more, it actually went into action, and fired a shot at what was most likely a Tiger II (they never did find out what it was), hitting whatever it fired at so hard that the resulting explosion was 60 feet or more in height. The vehicle was so powerful that the WoT development team had to nerf its gun stats.

 

Speaking of which, GuP is quite literally World of Tanks: the anime; the entire production and development team played that game.

Edited by Alexandre Charron-trudel, 22 March 2013 - 05:28 PM.

[Alexandre Charron-trudel]

@rock gollem

 

you were right; insane tank tactics for episode 12; apparently the maus is defeated by flipping it over (!) and this happens:

 

ok, on with the review:

 

Well, Oorai's certainly in a pickle; they're facing a Maus, which none of them can penetrate from the front, sides or rear, so, how will they take it down?

 

Answer:

 

04:35: this should not be physically possible; the Hezter weighs at most 15 tons, 1/12th the weight of the Maus; in this case, the Hetzer would have been flatened, with the crew inside meeting a rather inglorious death. however, anime logic intervenes once again; the Maus ramps up on the hetzer, which provides yet another ramp for the tiny Type 89 to roll up onto its upper deck and prevent the turret from turning (again, impossible, since the turret alone weighs 2-3 times more than the Type 89 does). This opens the way for.......

 

05:12: the maus commander opening her hatch and yelling at the volleyball crew to get the hell off of her tank. Really girl, do you think--in a match where their homes are quite literally on the line--your opponent will simply release you? But it's the perfect distraction for....

 

05:49: Miho and co ramping up onto the side of the highway and plugging a shot into the maus' thin upper deck (just 25mm), knocking out the electrical generators there and turning the tank into a massive fireball. Now, this would actually work, due to muzzle velocity and the thinness of the armor, but really....

 

06:25: naturally, stopping a 188 ton tank has its consequences, and the poor hetzer's engine flames out. pretty light consequences for stopping a vehicle that otherwise would have squashed you flat.

 

09:46: you know you're outmatched when both of your guns can't penetrate the REAR armor of your target (the rear armor of the ferdinand is 80mm thick, and the 75mm M2 on the M3 lee could penetrate a max of 76mm at 100 meters, and the Lee has to fire at an angle)

 

10:00-10:31: i'm not even going to bother to count how many times Kuromori could have stopped and simply whacked all of the oorai tanks in the back in such narrow confines.

 

11:00: just shoot down its main gun for crying out loud!

 

11:34: I hope we all learned a lesson here: don't give your expensive tank destroyer to a rank amateur crew, who, instead of firing and stopping, proceeds to run themselves off the road, into the ravine, ruining their main gun permanently to the point that the entire mount will have to be replaced, and then flipping their vehicle on its roof.

 

12:00-15:34: sheer dumb luck. but Miho's shot on the side of the tiger would have penetrated the hull.

 

16:04: you know someone has an inferiority complex when they line up their tanks to provide their local Inquisitor's Tiger II the opportunity to drive OVER the Tiger(P) and into the otherwise sealed arena. Talk about poor sportsmanship!

 

17:27: if you had a turbocharger and an 800hp engine, this would be possible, but no matter how much tank-jutsu you have stored up, once those tracks and idler wheels go your tank WILL be sent flipping over end for end as mandated by the laws of physics affecting something that has only minimal contact with the ground and is top-heavy.

 

17:37: and Oorai wins......by sheer dumb luck on the account that their tank is thinner than the Tiger I. Otherwise it would have been a draw.

Edited by Alexandre Charron-trudel, 25 March 2013 - 10:25 PM.

[5Cats]

Hooray! Episode 12 was a HUGE SUCCESS! Well, I think so!

It was action packed, lots of fun and our girls win!

 

Best part:

2:29 "Hide!"

2:31 *ka-BOOM!*

2:33 "Tactical retreat!"

 

Lolz! That's -Looney Tunes- quality funny!

 

Hey @Alexandre: How do you make that little gif? (My "kung-fu" is so weak-sauce...) I urgently need to make one for that sequence.

 

4:35: Yes, at the very least the Hetzer's suspension would be "pancaked". At worst the hull would cave in and squash them.

 

5:12: Well, the BF girls don't know that! They know how much trouble they'll be in if they lose however...

 

10:00 Yeah, shooting occasionally would have been a good idea, Black Forrest Girls! Any of their Panzer's guns would wipe out the side or rear of the Pz.4 Schurzen or not!

 

Speaking of which: That's NOT how Schurzen's supposed to work! lolz!

 

11:34 Lots of panzers on their sides, upside down... and the little white flags pop up from the sides too! :OMG: I nearly died laughing...

 

"Sheer dumb luck" is Miho's trademark!

 

Oh well, it was loads of fun and I just love it!

 

Now, Season 2! Panzer Vor!!

[rockgollem]

5cat - Well, that's the thing. Even if Maus gets bogged down or run out of gas, it won't matter since there's no tank that our protagonist have that can penetrate it. Plus as I said before, all it needs to be is big juicy distraction while the German team's hidden Tank Destroyer protecting the Maus would pick apart Oorai as they approach.

 

Anyways, from what Alex posted I have a feeling I really wouldn't like this episode.

 

4:25 - Really... What Alex said.

 

4:55 - Not only impossible, but this is becoming a frikking circus act.

 

7:50 - Did they really not notice that M3? Also, moving in that formation in a city.

 

9:40 - Yes, you put a Tank Destroyer without turret in city doing a Benny Hill by itself. Genius. I also can't emphasize how horrible of a plan it is to follow the lead tank in hope to catch it.

 

10:30-11:30 - Well now that GuP Logic is over... Time for another one

 

12:20 - So they have 16 tanks and the tank that's leading the charge/taking the point is the flag tank? Smart. Real smart. GuP Logic right there.

 

12:50 - Tiger 2. Eh-hem. That Tiger P would have been cleaned out in seconds.

 

14:00 - Is this the Battle Racer or tanks? Seriously.

 

13:00 - 17:55 - I was not watching tanks here (Nor was I for the entirety of this anime) but seriously, nope. I'm glad this farce is finally over.

 

No more ridiculousness, oh the sweet release.

[Alexandre Charron-trudel]

5cat - Well, that's the thing. Even if Maus gets bogged down or run out of gas, it won't matter since there's no tank that our protagonist have that can penetrate it. Plus as I said before, all it needs to be is big juicy distraction while the German team's hidden Tank Destroyer protecting the Maus would pick apart Oorai as they approach.

 

Anyways, from what Alex posted I have a feeling I really wouldn't like this episode.

 

4:25 - Really... What Alex said.

 

4:55 - Not only impossible, but this is becoming a frikking circus act.

 

7:50 - Did they really not notice that M3? Also, moving in that formation in a city.

 

9:40 - Yes, you put a Tank Destroyer without turret in city doing a Benny Hill by itself. Genius. I also can't emphasize how horrible of a plan it is to follow the lead tank in hope to catch it.

 

10:30-11:30 - Well now that GuP Logic is over... Time for another one

 

12:20 - So they have 16 tanks and the tank that's leading the charge/taking the point is the flag tank? Smart. Real smart. GuP Logic right there.

 

12:50 - Tiger 2. Eh-hem. That Tiger P would have been cleaned out in seconds.

 

14:00 - Is this the Battle Racer or tanks? Seriously.

 

13:00 - 17:55 - I was not watching tanks here (Nor was I for the entirety of this anime) but seriously, nope. I'm glad this farce is finally over.

 

No more ridiculousness, oh the sweet release.

 

4:55, actually if you look carefully in WWII archives, there's a picture of a WWII italian tankette that manage to park itself on the rear deck of a sherman tank in an attempt to do much the same. It is possible, just very difficult.

 

12:50: the Tiger(P) had over 200mm of front armor, and the Tiger II had only and 88mm gun, same as the Tiger I. So, actually, the Tiger II would not be able to do away with the Tiger P in one shot; the sheer amount of fire that the automobile club took is actually relatively accurate.

 

14:00 it's.....world of tank racing(?)

 

13:00-17:55: this is what happens when you take a fictional anime-sport and moe-ify it for the viewing consumption of young adult men. the title of the show was accurate: more of the girls, less of the accurate depiction of armored combat.

 

"No more ridiculousness, oh the sweet release" On the contrary, dear rock-gollem, we need MOAR!

[5Cats]

_{It's "World of Tanks" merged with "Mario Cart"...}

_{"Kelly's Heroes" meets "Tokyo Drift"?}

 

_{http://www.wwiivehicles.com/}

 

_{This excellent resource site says the Tiger-II's (43/71) gun was more powerful than the Tiger-I's. (36/56) The JagdPanther had the same 88mm as the Tiger -I. The Panther's 75mm could open up 138+mm of armour at 100m... 100+mm at 1500 meters? Impressive!}

 

_{http://www.wwiivehicles.com/germany/guns/88-mm.asp}

 

_{The Tiger-II's gun can open up 200+ mm at 100 meters... it's just as good as the 128mm actually.}

 

_{But anyhow, it was a "heavyweight slugfest" that was fun to watch! The Black Forrest team using their Jagdpanthers as a ramp? = LOLZ!}

 

_{Cheers guys! I hope to see y'all again in Season 2!}

_{(Or if they ever update this manga series...)}

 

_{Edit: Why are the letters so tiny? Oh well...}

Edited by 5Cats, 27 March 2013 - 07:16 PM.

[Trepur]

Apparently I exceed the number of quotes your allowed to use in a single post, so I will be using quoations rather then actual quote boxes.

 

"1:00 - Why the hell is the tank/engine starting up so fast?"

 

Because its an anime. Your told multiple times in the anime that these battles take hours, so I presume some things (like the start up times) are sped up to make the show more enjoyable for most people, who don't want 1/5 of the episode be devoted to  them turning on their panzers1:00 - Why the hell is the tank/engine starting up so fast?

 

"1:30 - This is a stupid idea and maneuver. It wouldn't have maneuvered past them, it would have crashed into them. Not even modern tanks pull stunts like that. Also, some of the tanks are moving too fast."

 

 

Not really, their tanks weren't going that fast and its driving in between two allied tanks. It gets a lot crazier later on, lol.

 

"1:45 - Turret's turning too fast."

 

 

 

That turret wasn't moving that fast, but yeah later on it gets really bad about but turret speeds and panzer speeds.

 

 

 

"2:00 - THE HATCHES! *Haves heartattack* Make it stop... Please stop peering out of them."

 

 

Try telling that to Rommel or Patton or almost any other world war 2 tank commander. When you're not under fire most commanders would have the hatch open, better visibility and less cramped then being stuck with 4 other guys in a really hot stuffy tank.

 

 

"3:10 - So they magically know where shot came immediately, turned turret so fast it defies laws of physics, trained gunner's sight exactly where the enemy is while in motion all the time? Seems legit."

 

Again, I'm going to assume time scale.

 

"3:20 - They possibly cannot fire that fast while in motion and also not with any amount of accuracy they're getting. Stop wasting ammo. Also they're too fast and Panzer 4 pulling impossible zig-zags on a real Panzer 4... By the way, I think they're trying to maintain wedge formation... that is a terrible wedge formation."

 

You mean missing every sign shot is accurate? LOL

 

"3:40 - Oh, so they've gotten a semi-modern gyro-stabilized gun and sight that WW2 tanks never had. Magical."

That was not a modern sight system. 

 

 

"I'd also like to mention that commander is an idiot to have the head out whole time they're getting shot at. If one of the shell was even lucky or unlucky enough, it will take that girl's head right off. I even see rocks flying around the place and you know where I'm goign with this."

This time I will agree with you.

 

"22:10 - So they're fixing the junked out tanks and using them for battle... I have so much to say about this, but I'll let this one slide. For my own health, I'll assume that the girls have magical engineering knowledge, expertise and tools to build/replace/calibrate/fix everything needed to re-commission a junk tank back into service."

Again, we don't know the time scale, I don't believe they ever mentioned how long it took for them to repair their tanks. It could have been a few weeks/months. And yes they have expertise knowledge on engineering, its a fucking anime.

 

"22:30 - What the hell? They're living on an aircraft carrier? And it's gigantic... bigger than anything human has ever made. Somebody explain to me how they're getting enough living materials..."

Yeah, this was a wtf moment for me too.

 

 

 

"Girls und Panzer Anime Episode 2"

 

 

Why did you watch episode 2 if you hated episode 1 so much?

 

2:30 - I mean it's a tank. It's a gigantic hunk of metal with guns sticking out of it, designed for destruction... Really? Would they really chuck them away at random location and without any records? I mean seriously. What the hell. Seriously. 

4:25 - Smell of gigantic pile of rusting iron has peculiar smell to it, due to process of corrosion, I really doubt any human being would be able to smell it in a middle of a forest with all the "flowers". 

4:50 - Why would they just randomly strew them across the landscape even if they didn't want to use them? I mean come on. This is just killing me. Also, since they are gigantic hunk of metal in very distinct shape, I really doubt their location would have been a "secret" unless nobody goes wherever they may be.

5:35 - Really... In a cave... Really... It doesn't make sense such a high cliff and a cave would be on an aircraft carrier, but let's skip that.

Agreed here, it would have been better if they were in storage like the others.

 

5:50 - The recovery process would have taken days (especially the submerged Stug) with multiple recovery vehicles and crews working... So, who dragged them across to the yard? I also don't have to mention the process that would go into making those vehicles servicable, from my previous posts? Better to blow them up and get a new one in than fixing it.

It could have easily taken days, we were told how long it took. Could be wrong, keep in mind I am responding from memory.

 

6:00 - One genuine curiosty I have is, why do they have such a mixed bag of tanks with different abilities? St.Gloriana (The girls with Churchill and Matilda) have shown that they have uniform types of vehicles to probably match in ability, performance, tactical aspect and maintenance. We may never know.

St. Gloriana has an actual team, the main school sold off most of the panzers when the program was disbanded, these were the ones that weren't sold.

 

6:42 - I'm sorry, this just made me laugh so hard. Type 89 being called "well made" and "great for attack". Oh, this anime does have its sense of humor.

These people have never seen a tank before...

 

6:45 - What "turret" are they referring to? It's a casemate style tank destroyer, there is no turret in the first place. What turret are they referring to?

There referring to the gun, the translation I used said it can't turn, so they are using the StuGIII correctly.

 

6:55 - Umm, what? StuG 3s in Winter War? Winter War between Finland and Soviet Union was between 1939-1940, which point in time StuG 3 was nudging itself into service for Germany around 1940, nevermind an export. Not to mention Finland had no aid nor particularly close relationship with Nazi Germany during or before the Winter War. So, did the writers go crazy and not checked any of the facts and just decided to spew out craps like FOX News?

This is actually an joke that not enough people picked up on. Riko Matsumoto calls herself a history buff and lists the names of battles and events but everyone one of them is always wrong. Later on she claims some major world war 1 battle happened in world war 2 and that Montgomery was a French General.

 

9:57 - "We use live ammunition in battle"! Ah-ha! I caught you. So, what are the measures of the safety, hmm? Magical force-field?

Some thick carbon plating that protects the cockpit? (not sure what its called). 

 

Keep in mind that this is futuristic.

 

18:00 - So clean and everything working perfectly after only a day...

I don't remember it being after only a day, but if it was then yeah, incredibly unrealstic.

 

18:20 - So, they have someone who doesn't even know how to work it... It would take weeks of training to actually maneuver with it and... I can feel myself getting a heart attack already. And they're driving it onto an excercise... I don't even... Also, there is a bit more to starting a tank than simply pressing 1 button.

Tanks are easier to drive then you think. Especially in world war 2 most tanks were designed with an easy as possible interface so that countries could maximize the number of tanks they had on the front line.

 

19:10 - I'm sorry, I try to keep composed, but this just crossed the line. Are you kidding me here? None of them knows how to operate a tank? So none of them have been briefed, shown or trained to operate any sort of tank, and the so called "instructor" has the nerve to send them out for an "excercise"? Not only is this highly unsafe, I am amazed how nobody broke something onboard already. I am simply appalled at what a pathetic excuse for a human being this "instructor" is, with such disregard for safety. They could have driven off cliff, into water, and god knows what. If they also don't know how to drive, they don't know how to work the tank safely, mainly, the gun. Tank is not something that one can apply a Spartan method to. One cannot expect to be just thrown into a tank and operate it in any "excercise". It's like telling a man who's never flown a jet before, shoving him in cockpit and making him fly. It's a death waiting to happen.

22:25 - It seems out precious loader or gunner (I honestly can't tell) , is peering out of the hatch while getting shot at with live ammunition. Yes, I do suppose the possibility of getting killed by impacting or stray round is an exciting prospect for her. As much as I disdain it, if that's what she wants.

LMFAO, I can't stop laughing at this rant.

 

I'll respond to episode 3+ later.