Jump to content

Primary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Secondary: Sky Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Squares Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Photo

Girls und Panzer Anime Rant Thread - Spoiler Alert


  • Please log in to reply
98 replies to this topic

#1
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
If you don't want spoilers to Girls un Panzer Anime, please close this now, watch it and come back.


I was going to try to avoid doing this, but good god, I started watching the GuP anime Episode 1, and was stark raving mad the first five mintue into it. Also, I think I don't need to explain that I feel it's ridiculous for such tiny girls to operate the tank, but it shall be underlying understanding between you, readers and I.

The various tactics, psychological profile, reactions and actions that go along will be mentioned sometimes, but I do recognize that author probably never actually sat inside a tank and have gotten shot at, so I won't be too harsh on him.

As per mistakes correlating with dialogue/conversation, I'm watching raw so sadly I can't say anything about it.

(I will show timeline frame for you to easily know where the mistakes are, but remember they're approximate time. So it could be off +/- 10 seconds or so.)

So without further ado, here we go.

Girls und Panzer Anime Episode 1

1:00 - Why the hell is the tank/engine starting up so fast?

1:10 - Why are they turning and accelerating so fast?

1:30 - This is a stupid idea and maneuver. It wouldn't have maneuvered past them, it would have crashed into them. Not even modern tanks pull stunts like that. Also, some of the tanks are moving too fast.

1:45 - Turret's turning too fast.

2:00 - THE HATCHES! *Haves heartattack* Make it stop... Please stop peering out of them.

3:10 - So they magically know where shot came immediately, turned turret so fast it defies laws of physics, trained gunner's sight exactly where the enemy is while in motion all the time? Seems legit.

3:20 - They possibly cannot fire that fast while in motion and also not with any amount of accuracy they're getting. Stop wasting ammo. Also they're too fast and Panzer 4 pulling impossible zig-zags on a real Panzer 4... By the way, I think they're trying to maintain wedge formation... that is a terrible wedge formation.

3:40 - Oh, so they've gotten a semi-modern gyro-stabilized gun and sight that WW2 tanks never had. Magical.

I'd also like to mention that commander is an idiot to have the head out whole time they're getting shot at. If one of the shell was even lucky or unlucky enough, it will take that girl's head right off. I even see rocks flying around the place and you know where I'm goign with this.

14:10 - Umm really? Skirts in tanks? Tell me that they're just pulling my leg. Also... their ample usage of WW2 German tanks, along with girls wearing WW2 German-esque uniforms with cheering crowds really do put me to concern in more ways than one.

22:10 - So they're fixing the junked out tanks and using them for battle... I have so much to say about this, but I'll let this one slide. For my own health, I'll assume that the girls have magical engineering knowledge, expertise and tools to build/replace/calibrate/fix everything needed to re-commission a junk tank back into service.

22:30 - What the hell? They're living on an aircraft carrier? And it's gigantic... bigger than anything human has ever made. Somebody explain to me how they're getting enough living materials...

The carrier is too top heavy, and insufficient buoyancy design. That thing will sink fasther than Titanic.


Well, that was the rant of first episode. There isn't as much as there probably would be in other episode, because it's a starting episode that introduces stuff and relatively little tank-to-tank action. However, it has given some crucial background information, which further defies logic, that manga hasn't provided. (That they live on gigantic, converted, defy-all-logic-craft carrier)

#2
Alexandre Charron-trudel

Alexandre Charron-trudel

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 28 posts
at this point, i'm going to invoke the MST3K Mantra: It's a show...just relax and enjoy it. That said, the giant aircraft carrier the size of a small town made me go WTF, too.

#3
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
Watch Lewis Black if you want to really know what I'm trying to do.

#4
Alexandre Charron-trudel

Alexandre Charron-trudel

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 28 posts
saw louis black. hilarious, but so very true, especially on why America ISN'T number 1

#5
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
http://www.nyaa.eu/?page=torrentinfo&tid=360454

Free download with subtitles! Woot!
Some people were complaining about "too much German" in the subs. You're watching a show with PANZER in the title and BITCHING about 11 words in German? Ack! Ugh! Aaarrgh!
If you cannot figure those words out? Go sign up for Flower Arrangement... ffs!

0:38 Rocky-G: I'm shocked you didn't complain about that too! ;) Don't let it get too loud? They're MILES away! In ROARING tanks! lolz! omg, did I mention I laughed like an idiot thoughout the whole show? In that good way!

1:38 Omg! So cuuute!

2:00 Teh Hatches! Well, yeah. It is odd that ONLY our girls are riding CE (crew exposed) while the rest are BU (buttoned up) We need some links to ASL here, eh? (Advanced Squad Leader). They should ALL be CE because the enemy is nowhere near them.

2:12 Nooo! It's "Operation Sneakingly" like in the manga!!

The "combat" part is "teh silly" but it's FUN!

Skirts in tanks... just sit back and enjoy bro!

Humongous aircraftcarrier-like ship? Well yeah, that's getting beyond the "silly" range ind into the "wtf" zone...

But I loved it! Woot!
It's way better than the manga so far, and I'm hopelessly addicted to the cuteness!

22:10: Junked out tanks. Nooo, the school used to have a Panzer program, so these tanks are leftover from that. They've been in storage eh?

The Pz-4 is TWICE as fast as those British slugs, that's a fact.
IF the British tanks were also CE, they MIGHT know where that round came from, but BU? Not likely. In fact, extremely UN-likely...
But the zig-zag is... CUTE! lolz.

I'm willing to overlook a LOT in the name of "teh cute" eh?

Now, put some neko-ears on those girls and we're REALLY in "my zone"...

#6
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
Well, 5Cats, about 0:38, I was watching the raw when I posted this, so I had no idea what any of them were saying. But good catch.

On 2:00, it is my professional opinion that all hatches should be closed, perhaps save for Commander's and driver's considering the terrain they're driving on. Reason I say this is because A) the terrain they're driving on seems to be very rocky and uneven, this dramatically increases chance of injury to a person with half the body out of hatch. B) None of the open hatches they had were secured, this would also increase the risk of hatches swinging and slamming due to the terrain, further risking injury. C) Though enemy may be distance away, they are heading into semi-combat situation (because it's martial arts than real war), where having hatches open would be dangerous, if not deadly. And finally, D) I mean no real need for gunner or loader or radio operator to look out a hatch.

Speaking of which, since I'm looking at subbed version now...

22:00 - She knows that all the moving part looks fine by looking at just the outside? There are hell of alot more moving parts in tanks than just the roadwheels...

I say it's junked tank, because simply looking at how it is. It is rusted all over with tracks missing and broken. There are certain parts that are dented and/or deformed. (Though this may just be artistic inaccuracy or expression)

Now if it was allowed to gather that much rust while in storage, then the entire structural integrity of the tank is under question. Remember than rusting will generally damage the quality and integrity of the metal in question. Tanks are also full of moving parts and parts that are require to have high performance with consistency. There would essentially need to be complete dis-assembly, repair and 100% guarented remanufacturing of certain parts. Heck, if I was a techinician in charge of repair of the vehicle, I would blow it up and get a new tank in. Failing that, send it back to factory and also failing that, remove all parts, order in everything but the hull, refurbish the hull and assemble it brand new.

So on and so forth. However, with that being said, our standard of junked probably differs.


As per neko-ears... I love them, too. ;) I'm glad I have someone like you, 5cats, whom I can talk about this with!

#7
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
lolz @Rock-G! Great minds think alike! As do creepy ones... >^..^<

Yeah they'd get bashed around riding like that, but it wouldn't be as cute! Remember, cute > logic. There should be some sort of latch or catch to keep the doors from swinging around...

The school's tanks look fantastic! To see them moving, and in colour is great!

Sensha-do is also spiritual, eh? Miho has long experience with it, and can 'feel the panzer's spirit' and stuff... yeah! That sounds good!
If the tanks were working within the past 10-15 years, and stored semi-properly, they should be fixable.
Keep in mind they're on a gigantic aircraft carrier... real world physics need not apply.

Yeah, the host of Pz-3s in the promotional film was creepy, it seems like Japan has a LOT of WW2 tanks laying around...

I came to see the Panzers, I stayed for the schoolgirls and now there's a KITTY in the next episode?
I may die of happiness!

#8
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
Girls und Panzer Anime Episode 2

2:30 - I mean it's a tank. It's a gigantic hunk of metal with guns sticking out of it, designed for destruction... Really? Would they really chuck them away at random location and without any records? I mean seriously. What the hell. Seriously.

4:25 - Smell of gigantic pile of rusting iron has peculiar smell to it, due to process of corrosion, I really doubt any human being would be able to smell it in a middle of a forest with all the "flowers".

4:50 - Why would they just randomly strew them across the landscape even if they didn't want to use them? I mean come on. This is just killing me. Also, since they are gigantic hunk of metal in very distinct shape, I really doubt their location would have been a "secret" unless nobody goes wherever they may be.

5:35 - Really... In a cave... Really... It doesn't make sense such a high cliff and a cave would be on an aircraft carrier, but let's skip that.

5:50 - The recovery process would have taken days (especially the submerged Stug) with multiple recovery vehicles and crews working... So, who dragged them across to the yard? I also don't have to mention the process that would go into making those vehicles servicable, from my previous posts? Better to blow them up and get a new one in than fixing it.

6:00 - One genuine curiosty I have is, why do they have such a mixed bag of tanks with different abilities? St.Gloriana (The girls with Churchill and Matilda) have shown that they have uniform types of vehicles to probably match in ability, performance, tactical aspect and maintenance. We may never know.

6:30 - "Make your panzer presentable by then"? MAKE YOUR PANZERS PRESENTABLE BY THEN? It would take days to make those things "presentable" on the outside, nevermind the inside or any working mechanics. Who's the genius writing the script for this?

6:42 - I'm sorry, this just made me laugh so hard. Type 89 being called "well made" and "great for attack". Oh, this anime does have its sense of humor.

6:45 - What "turret" are they referring to? It's a casemate style tank destroyer, there is no turret in the first place. What turret are they referring to?

6:55 - Umm, what? StuG 3s in Winter War? Winter War between Finland and Soviet Union was between 1939-1940, which point in time StuG 3 was nudging itself into service for Germany around 1940, nevermind an export. Not to mention Finland had no aid nor particularly close relationship with Nazi Germany during or before the Winter War. So, did the writers go crazy and not checked any of the facts and just decided to spew out craps like FOX News?

Or do they live in alternate historyline, where Nazi Germany launched war against Soviet Union even earlier than 1941, beaten all opponents even earlier and were actually ready for war even earlier? (1939 was actually earlier than German anticipated for war, for readers who may not know. Thus, their armoured programs and productions were not in place as much as they hoped for.) In which case, god help us all.

7:20 - Inside looks way too clean and intact for a rusted out vehicle. 7:30 - I knew this would happen. I just knew it. Instant renovation, paintjob and everything. I don't know why I keep watching this, it's taking years off my life just to go through this.

7:30 - 8:20 - This entire scene makes me cringe at how little the writers, directors, whatever guys involved know about tanks or their maintenance. Also tanks getting instant clean up and working order makes me want to take blunt objects and hit myself with them.

8:50 - I'm kind of surprised anybody and everybody can just walk up to the railings. I mean, it would be so easy for murder and disposal... So easy...

9:57 - "We use live ammunition in battle"! Ah-ha! I caught you. So, what are the measures of the safety, hmm? Magical force-field?

14:40 - 14:58 - Not only dangerous, but impossible. It looks like a MBT, the tank would flip over, roll around and basically be rendered inoperable. Even if tank somehow remains unscathed, crew inside would have been injured or killed. Only real serviced airborne tank, M551 Sheridan was deployed seperately from the crew and released from its deployment platform by the crew and then mounted.

Also the, LAPES or Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System, which is what that plane did, would not be done in urban areas. By all logic, that plane would not have the maneuverable capability nor clear "drop zone" to carry out the said action. Also, that tank stopped way too fast.

So what is the summary of my point here? In reality, that tank would have flipped over, no longer serviceable, crews inside either dead or injured and before the tank was even dropped off, that plane would have crashed.

18:00 - So clean and everything working perfectly after only a day...

18:20 - So, they have someone who doesn't even know how to work it... It would take weeks of training to actually maneuver with it and... I can feel myself getting a heart attack already. And they're driving it onto an excercise... I don't even... Also, there is a bit more to starting a tank than simply pressing 1 button.

19:10 - I'm sorry, I try to keep composed, but this just crossed the line. Are you kidding me here? None of them knows how to operate a tank? So none of them have been briefed, shown or trained to operate any sort of tank, and the so called "instructor" has the nerve to send them out for an "excercise"? Not only is this highly unsafe, I am amazed how nobody broke something onboard already. I am simply appalled at what a pathetic excuse for a human being this "instructor" is, with such disregard for safety. They could have driven off cliff, into water, and god knows what. If they also don't know how to drive, they don't know how to work the tank safely, mainly, the gun. Tank is not something that one can apply a Spartan method to. One cannot expect to be just thrown into a tank and operate it in any "excercise". It's like telling a man who's never flown a jet before, shoving him in cockpit and making him fly. It's a death waiting to happen.

22:25 - It seems out precious loader or gunner (I honestly can't tell) , is peering out of the hatch while getting shot at with live ammunition. Yes, I do suppose the possibility of getting killed by impacting or stray round is an exciting prospect for her. As much as I disdain it, if that's what she wants.



Episode 2 Rant Ending Note:

I am sorry if I was very emotional at certain point, but this episode really makes me question whether I should continue the "Rant Series", when it clearly does not wish to adhere to any logic and ignore even the most basic thing. Of course, there are mangas that transcends logic, like most harem and "fight" mangas, but I mean when they use tanks, they should at least give it some realism and credit they deserve.

Edited by rockgollem, 16 October 2012 - 12:00 PM.


#9
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
Hi @rockgollem! If you keep ranting, I'll keep reading :batoto_024:
Wow, uber-cute smilies, eh?
As I did in episode 1, I giggled like an idiot throughout the show! I'm totally addicted now, ugh!
Bonus: Spotting all the parts that would drive @rockgollem around the bend! lolz! Of course some parts bothered me too, being so silly or far-fetched as to be impossible, eh?
4:25: Yeah, and they're on a SHIP! Which is made (presumably) of metal too? Oy!
5:50: True that! It'd take a week to recover them, at least. If they weren't 'on a ship' I'd let the random abandonment pass, but really? They 'lost' 4 Panzers?
6:00: Because it's cute!! My complaint is that the rest of the schools have such boring Sensha-do clubs...
6:55 - Yeah that bugged me too! The Finns had few armoured cars or tanks of any kind, nevermind a good one! iirc Germany did 'loan' them some Me109s in 1939, and sold them some old bi-plane fighters too. Finland had English (Glosters) American (Buffalos) Italian and French aircraft in 1939! Talk about maintanence issues...
http://www.wwiivehicles.com/finland/photos.asp - a host of odd tanks before 1943!
http://www.adalbertus.com.pl/en/finnish-armour-colors-ww2.html - how to paint your StuG-III in Finnish colours! (lolz!)
Yes it's true: The Nazis planned to start WW2 in the spring of 1941 against Russia. All their plans centered around that date, which is why it took until May 1940 to even start attacking France.
http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/finland/finland.html - Ooo! Nifty site! The StuG-III is just over half-way down the page.
6:45 - That part was cute!
7:20 - WOW! The automotive club works REALLY fast! And paint dries faster on aircraft carriers, apparently.

As for the rest: yes it's VERY silly! Little girls hopping into tanks and VROOM! Off they go! Asian women cannot even drive cars! ffs!
(just j/k! don't banhammer me!)
I'm assuming there's some sort of force field protecting them, or other sci-fi excuse for them surviving combat. After all: none of the tanks have holes in them, despite being used for 'combat' repeatedly, eh?

9:14 - A PANZER STORE! How convenient for them! You'd have thought it would have closed after the Shensha-do club was dropped, eh? Perhaps it just re-opened... yet no one bothered to mention its existance to the girls? Oy!
9:40 - Promo video for PanzerCraft on the tv! Nice!
Gun barrels, shells, uniforms, spare parts galore! :blink: Just your typical shop in Japan?

Anyhow, it's funny and cute = I'm a happy PanzerTrooper!

#10
Alexandre Charron-trudel

Alexandre Charron-trudel

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 28 posts

Girls und Panzer Anime Episode 2

2:30 - I mean it's a tank. It's a gigantic hunk of metal with guns sticking out of it, designed for destruction... Really? Would they really chuck them away at random location and without any records? I mean seriously. What the hell. Seriously.

4:25 - Smell of gigantic pile of rusting iron has peculiar smell to it, due to process of corrosion, I really doubt any human being would be able to smell it in a middle of a forest with all the "flowers".

4:50 - Why would they just randomly strew them across the landscape even if they didn't want to use them? I mean come on. This is just killing me. Also, since they are gigantic hunk of metal in very distinct shape, I really doubt their location would have been a "secret" unless nobody goes wherever they may be.

5:35 - Really... In a cave... Really... It doesn't make sense such a high cliff and a cave would be on an aircraft carrier, but let's skip that.

5:50 - The recovery process would have taken days (especially the submerged Stug) with multiple recovery vehicles and crews working... So, who dragged them across to the yard? I also don't have to mention the process that would go into making those vehicles servicable, from my previous posts? Better to blow them up and get a new one in than fixing it.

6:00 - One genuine curiosty I have is, why do they have such a mixed bag of tanks with different abilities? St.Gloriana (The girls with Churchill and Matilda) have shown that they have uniform types of vehicles to probably match in ability, performance, tactical aspect and maintenance. We may never know.

6:30 - "Make your panzer presentable by then"? MAKE YOUR PANZERS PRESENTABLE BY THEN? It would take days to make those things "presentable" on the outside, nevermind the inside or any working mechanics. Who's the genius writing the script for this?

6:42 - I'm sorry, this just made me laugh so hard. Type 89 being called "well made" and "great for attack". Oh, this anime does have its sense of humor.

6:45 - What "turret" are they referring to? It's a casemate style tank destroyer, there is no turret in the first place. What turret are they referring to?

6:55 - Umm, what? StuG 3s in Winter War? Winter War between Finland and Soviet Union was between 1939-1940, which point in time StuG 3 was nudging itself into service for Germany around 1940, nevermind an export. Not to mention Finland had no aid nor particularly close relationship with Nazi Germany during or before the Winter War. So, did the writers go crazy and not checked any of the facts and just decided to spew out craps like FOX News?

Or do they live in alternate historyline, where Nazi Germany launched war against Soviet Union even earlier than 1941, beaten all opponents even earlier and were actually ready for war even earlier? (1939 was actually earlier than German anticipated for war, for readers who may not know. Thus, their armoured programs and productions were not in place as much as they hoped for.) In which case, god help us all.

7:20 - Inside looks way too clean and intact for a rusted out vehicle. 7:30 - I knew this would happen. I just knew it. Instant renovation, paintjob and everything. I don't know why I keep watching this, it's taking years off my life just to go through this.

7:30 - 8:20 - This entire scene makes me cringe at how little the writers, directors, whatever guys involved know about tanks or their maintenance. Also tanks getting instant clean up and working order makes me want to take blunt objects and hit myself with them.

8:50 - I'm kind of surprised anybody and everybody can just walk up to the railings. I mean, it would be so easy for murder and disposal... So easy...

9:57 - "We use live ammunition in battle"! Ah-ha! I caught you. So, what are the measures of the safety, hmm? Magical force-field?

14:40 - 14:58 - Not only dangerous, but impossible. It looks like a MBT, the tank would flip over, roll around and basically be rendered inoperable. Even if tank somehow remains unscathed, crew inside would have been injured or killed. Only real serviced airborne tank, M551 Sheridan was deployed seperately from the crew and released from its deployment platform by the crew and then mounted.

Also the, LAPES or Low Altitude Parachute Extraction System, which is what that plane did, would not be done in urban areas. By all logic, that plane would not have the maneuverable capability nor clear "drop zone" to carry out the said action. Also, that tank stopped way too fast.

So what is the summary of my point here? In reality, that tank would have flipped over, no longer serviceable, crews inside either dead or injured and before the tank was even dropped off, that plane would have crashed.

18:00 - So clean and everything working perfectly after only a day...

18:20 - So, they have someone who doesn't even know how to work it... It would take weeks of training to actually maneuver with it and... I can feel myself getting a heart attack already. And they're driving it onto an excercise... I don't even... Also, there is a bit more to starting a tank than simply pressing 1 button.

19:10 - I'm sorry, I try to keep composed, but this just crossed the line. Are you kidding me here? None of them knows how to operate a tank? So none of them have been briefed, shown or trained to operate any sort of tank, and the so called "instructor" has the nerve to send them out for an "excercise"? Not only is this highly unsafe, I am amazed how nobody broke something onboard already. I am simply appalled at what a pathetic excuse for a human being this "instructor" is, with such disregard for safety. They could have driven off cliff, into water, and god knows what. If they also don't know how to drive, they don't know how to work the tank safely, mainly, the gun. Tank is not something that one can apply a Spartan method to. One cannot expect to be just thrown into a tank and operate it in any "excercise". It's like telling a man who's never flown a jet before, shoving him in cockpit and making him fly. It's a death waiting to happen.

22:25 - It seems out precious loader or gunner (I honestly can't tell) , is peering out of the hatch while getting shot at with live ammunition. Yes, I do suppose the possibility of getting killed by impacting or stray round is an exciting prospect for her. As much as I disdain it, if that's what she wants.



Episode 2 Rant Ending Note:

I am sorry if I was very emotional at certain point, but this episode really makes me question whether I should continue the "Rant Series", when it clearly does not wish to adhere to any logic and ignore even the most basic thing. Of course, there are mangas that transcends logic, like most harem and "fight" mangas, but I mean when they use tanks, they should at least give it some realism and credit they deserve.

lulz at the throwing away of tanks, because this actually did happen in real life; someone found a T-95 prototype TD in the forests of alabama once, and called up the army to have them retrieve it. This has happened a couple of times apparently, where the army has quite literally thrown away obsolete vehicles without records.

@rock gollem

also, the tanks of the period were designed to be very simple to operate, especially the american ones; quite literally, the idea was for a farmboy to be able to hop into the vehicle and operate it with minimal training, which explains the gear levers, which were modelled after the standard control system of tractors of the period. That said, if you looked at the Chieftan's recent review of the australian war museum, and took a look at the inside of that M3Lee (oh, the horror!), there would be absolutely no way to rescue that StugIII; quite literally, it would have fallen apart the moment they got it back onto land. As for the short time period, however, we can assume that the crew of the city are extremely well versed in armor recovery and repair, seeing as it's been a tradition since WWII (it's also been keeping the arms companies nice and happy); furthermore, due to the existence of the parts shop, we can handily assume that they have an absolutely massive support group dedicated to just that sort of work, especially since its a nationally funded sport. As for live ammo.......it's probably low velocity ammo, and many of the vehicles are probably up-armored/improved replicas rather than originals....my suspicion is that there are a lot of companies dedicated to manufacturing and improving the original designs. This would handily explain the overabundance of PZIIIs, tanks which the Japanese never used. And you're right about the Type-89 BTW; it had a short-barreled 57mm gun designed for taking out pillboxes, and a maximum armor thickness of 17mm; any of the other vehicles could make swiss cheese out of it, and it stands absolutely no chance whatsoever of penetrating anything but the rear armor of 1940's generation tanks.

#11
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
But the context of abandoned tank in this is aboard an air-craft carrier. Albeit it is a gigantic one, that does not negate the fact there is only so much space.

As per vehicle abandonment, there are times, yes, but those practices are far and few in between. Exceptions do arise, but most things are thought of in normal context rather than in exceptional cases. Also, those abandonment without record is generally considered a gross incompetence or administrative mess-up, not a regular activity.

They were designed to be simple to operate, but they were not designed to be simply mounted without any sort of training. There's a reason why soldiers were trained for weeks and months, there's a reason for countries coming up with training vehicles/tanks. It's also not something you can just do by reading up on paper or manuals.

(If you are) Did you drive a car simply by looking at manuals explaining which lever and pedal does what and run perfectly fine without any sort of problems or accidents? I'm sure, like most people, that there was somebody there to show you the ropes and help you. In fact, most countries have "training" period for people on road to get used to driving and such. Now, if cars these days, which is extremely more simple than tanks of WW2, require such measures, there stands to reason for my argument.

I actually played World of Tanks during beta and quit due to horrible mechanics and gameplay, haven't returned since. I assume this "Chieftain" does something with tank recoveries and museums?

I question whether the people of the city would be well acquainted. The entire swathe of girls who were chosen, with exception for one, has shown only superficial knowledge of tanks (ie. models, names, etc). They didn't even know how to drive a tank. If a small group of girls who were either chosen or volunteered have no knowledge of running of tanks, I don't think there's a significant part of population that is well-versed with inner workings of a tank. It stands to reason that the said group is of more knowledged about tanks, but their lack of knowledge tells us that sample population does not have great knowledge of repair/recovery nor that general populus possesses the said knowledge.

Yes, there is a reason to believe that there could be a support group dedicated to repairs and/or recovery, however it still does not explain the timeframe in which they were able to carry out the actions. You can have the most exprienced group of people work away at recovering a single tank and restoring it into a running condition, but none of them will be able to do it all in one day, never mind half a day. It's a work that takes weeks at the least even with abundance of spare parts, exprienced technicians and all the tools that would ever be needed.

However, last time I checked, the works were done within an old school storage with almost everything simply sitting and aging away. I don't know about the recovery, because they magically teleported, however, all the repairs were done withint the school by those girls and "Automotive Club" afterwards. I assume the "Automotive Club" consists of school students as well. Even if they had all the expertise, equipments and supplies, which they don't, it would have take long, long time.

Expertise, due to none they have shown. Per equipments and supplies, even if they are within the storage, they would be just as rusted and possiby inoperable or broken as the tank. If they had the money, I assume they would already have bought brand new tanks. (This is supported by, as you pointed out, there is parts shop. Considering the protagonists' school did not have active tank programs for long time, there would need to be other new supply of tanks and existing tanks to keep the store in buisness.)

For live ammo, the manga has proven that for the hit to "count" there would be a need to be a "penetrating hit". Usage of low-velocity ammo would completely defeat the purpose of this rule, considering the round would be less potent. I would expect them to carry the best ammo available within historical context if anything. Now there is a possibility, anime would differ in certain rules, as many manga-anime have shown discrpencies. However, it cannot be ascertained at this point in time and since anime has largely shown consistency with manga, we must fall back to the knowledge at hand and go on from there.

As per up-armoring/improved replicas, it is possible, however still cannot explain anything. We have seen a Tiger tank on the broadcast image, thus it is logically assume almost any tanks, as long as they are within historical configurations of WW2 are "fair game". This would mean 88mm, 105mm, 128mm, 152mm and so forth would all be fair game as long as they are on a correct tank. Now there's the tanks such as Pz 38t and Type 89. No amount of adding on armour on these tanks will be sufficient to protect them against such onslaught without seriously compromising the tank's actual abilities or configuration. Despite artistic inaccuracies, I've observed no major overhaul of outer hull, so one must assume IF modifications are done, they would be inside. And as I have just said, doing the said modifications inside would essentially compromise space within the tanks and compromise the crew, configuration and abilities.

In other words, they wouldn't be able to run or run properly.

If the tanks were to utilize modern armouring technology for their protection, as per rule stated before, gun would need to follow in suit to be able to penetrate without giving certain tanks an overwhelming advantage. At which point, we are back to square one.

This is one of few logic blackhole that is present in the series, which is quite disheartening, but perhaps necessary to prevent losers from being scraped off of wrecked hull of the tank.

Also, as for "improving" the tanks, I'm not certain of this. The manga has shown that the guns and armour are within "historical" values and capabilities. There is also no gears, such a gyro-stabilizers, range finders, optics, command consoles, etc, which are out of historical configuration. Assumably, they want to keep the value of vehicles to their actual performance and confering an advantage on purpose to vehicles that did not have them could be deemed "cheating". There's some weird problem going on with speed of tanks, and it is possible that engine and performance capabilities were fiddled with, but it is just as possible for the mangaka to simply get too excited and try to portray exciting actions.

It would make whole lot sense that tank manufacturers would make minor adjustments to vehicles so certain vehicles (Such as Tiger, earlier Churchills and so forth) would have greater mechanical reliabilty and not break down everytime. But anything more than reliability and safety upgrades would be conferring advantages, which is illegal in most sports.

As per Panzer 3s... you lost me. Please provide me with context of origin of your reply.

#12
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
"As for live ammo.......it's probably low velocity ammo, and many of the vehicles are probably up-armored/improved replicas rather than originals"
@Alexanre: I'm guessing there will be some magical forcefield thing. I think the tanks are WW2 authentic - not modernized (although they seem to drive really fast! Matildas and Churchills were REALLY slow!) and even if up-armoured a stray shell could kill you dead POOF! Just like that! One through the view-slits or those hatches our girls love to open = dead tank. (low velocity or not)

@rockgollem:
"The entire swathe of girls who were chosen, with exception for one, has shown only superficial knowledge of tanks (ie. models, names, etc)."

- I missed that plot-hole entirely! If Sensha-do is so popular, why are the girls so unfamiliar with it?

"World Of Tanks" - I may have to start playing it, just so I can paint my tanks in G&P colours!

"As per Panzer 3s... you lost me. Please provide me with context of origin of your reply."
In the promotional video there's a parade of Pz-3s, a whole bunch of them! DOZENS! How that many Pz-3 got to Japan (nevermind that perhaps a dozen still exist in the whole world!) is another plot device that remains unexplained.

These girls cannot drive a car, but hop into a tank with manual transmission and VOR! Off they go! = LOLZ!
Relax! It's all about the cute!

Theory Time: It seems to be an 'alternate universe' which will allow the existance of humongous ships, tons of WW2 tanks still working and shooting at each other without killing anyone. Like "Strike Witches" eh? High tech or Magic? Both are useful to explain-away plot-holes!
Since Sensha-do is a world-wide sport, there's likely many companies making replicas of tanks, cheaply (somehow) and lots of spare parts too!

Complaining is fun! lolz! If it wasn't a good show, we wouldn't bother complaining about it! Upotte got real boring real fast, while Strike Witches was oodles of fun! This seems to be inbetween them, at least so far.

#13
Alexandre Charron-trudel

Alexandre Charron-trudel

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 28 posts
@5cats
i assume, like you, that logic must be thrown out the window to enjoy this anime. Again, the MST3K mantra; it's strike-witches with tanks. That said, the author could really have done his research beyond just looking at tank designs, for it seems that he's something of a gearhead who got ahead of himself. Contrast this with Full Metal Panic, where the developers did extensive research on weapons, tactics and strategies for mechanized infantry, as well as military conventions.

@rock gollem:
too long; almost didn't read. At the bottom line, we must assume that physics and human survivability are slightly different in their wolrd, as is the case with Toaru Majutsu No Index (figuring that one out almost drove me mad, to the point that the political, technological and military inconsistencies made me drop the series like a hot rock after volume 22).
As to World of Tanks: still play it (since 6.7, at least), much better, they fixed the f*#&^g matchmaker so it doesn't act like it's stoned half of the time; russian tree has a huge developer bias in it, though, and the game is hardly realistic, as you said........it needs competition, and dearly.
As to the PZIIIs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzer_3
It was a german anti-tank-tank during 1939-45, and its main weapon was a high velocity 50mm gun. The PZIV, which the main character pilots, was an infantry-support tank, but was later repurposed to a tank-fighter. One wonders what will happen when they run up against a russian KV tank (nicknamed the gray ghost, due to the fact that up until 1942, no german gun could penetrate it except at point-blank range). Anyway, the Japanese--apparently--bought two PZ-3s from the Germans during WWII. What became of them is unclear, however.

#14
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
We haven't seen any magic or psychic powers yet, so we'll just have to see what's up as it goes on.

I personally think the mangaka has the contextial setting in "modern day" for ease of relation. However, put it in alternate-history for sake of plot, and have taken many, many liberties along the line for the sake of convinience, story telling and action.

I don't keep up with many "fight" type mangas because they just have so damn much inconsistencies with them. Like in some mangas and some scenes, a nuclear bomb wouldn't hurt the character normally, but suddenly a little girl stabbing the character with a knife is deadly. We'll see if this is what happens to this manga as well.

But I do seriously hope, even if this was set in some sort of magical dimesion, that girls wouldn't be able to survive or bounce a deadly explosive shells weighting 5kg, being shot at 800 m/s. Otherwise, wouldn't make sense for tanks to be there in the first place.

And Alex, I know what Panzer 3s and 4s are, their roles, what they had and so forth... I was asking for the context of you saying Panzer 3, which 5cat explained for me.

#15
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
So: In Episode 3:
3:30 - we see a shell hit the Pz4 but not explode, which did happen in WW2, and it's not counted as a 'hit'.

The bridge scene: this time the treads don't slip off! +1 for realism, lolz!

5:30 - A hit! An explosion!

6:00 "Formation V" what the blazes is she talking about? :unsure:

6:05 - The Type 98 is hit, but it doesn't explode either, yet they're knocked out? Rulebook! Umpires! What the heck?

Lots of plot advancement and character developement in this episode! Huzza!

Once again: giggling like a fool throughout...

#16
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
Girls Und Panzer Anime Episode 3

1:48 - Umm... what? Did that girl just jump on top of a Panzer 4 that was moving at full speed? And she didn't fall/slip/get run over? Come on.

3:01 - Well, at least we have a driver looking out the hatch now. Much better than the bloody loader peeking out everytime, waiting to get killed. But I have to say, that thing is a suspension bridge. If you don't know how much weight the bridge can take, you never drive over it. It's the No.1 recipe for tanks to fall into water and drag everybody down along with. (And this is precisley one of kind of danger I mentioned about untrained crew. They don't know this kind of stuff, it's pure luck if anything, that they didn't all die here and then. or maybe pure sake of story)

3:30 - By all logic that round should have penetrated. And considering where in the rear it struck, there wasn't any particular bad angle that may have prevented penetration. Maybe one of the charges inside the round didn't set off, we shall never find out.

3:50 - What? So that Stug shot from there, the round hit, but they're not going to keep shooting but move forward? It's miraculously that first shot hit without need for adjustment (maybe not considering how far they're away), but come on. Logic or no logic, this is just plaine stupid.

4:15 - "I just learned it" Good grief. Yes, and I just learned how to fly a fighter jet, watch me fly it!

4:37 - That kind of round impact on a cable suspension bridge would have broken it and that Panzer 4 would be falling to their watery grave.

5:00 - Woo-hoo, they show the electric turret than hand-cranked in Manga. Though I must say, why are they shooting the targets behind them when there's ones infront? Considering driving closer to enemy units infront will make you move closer to them. Not a good choice.

5:25 - There's 4 tanks shooting at them, they stop for like 4-5 seconds. One of those 4 tanks would have made a penetrating shot by now.

5:30 - I let it go in manga, because the round hit the driver's view port, but 7.5 cm Kwk 37 can't penetrate 80mm of armour. They might be able to with APCR round, but I find this hit very skeptical. (I already went over before it only raising flag and not killing crew or setting the tank on fire, so I don't feel it's needed again?)

6:00 - I don't understand this "Formation V" either. But seriously, that Panzer 4 is standing still right in middle of the bridge, why isn't anybody shooting at it until it's looking right at them.

6:25 - Yea, this is just plaine stupid. "Oh look! They're right infront of me, less than 100m away, My tank can engage an enemy tank as far away upto 500 m away without much problem, but let me just move in until I'm right infront of them." Stupid is stupid does. And what the hell is that M3 doing anyways. Good god.

7:16 - As this girl said. They didn't really win, all others were just too stupid.

7:50 - What a pathetic instructor this girl is. "Let's teach them nothing and send them all on the excercise. I haven't taught them anything, but I'm done teaching here!" Someone should throw her over-board.

11:20 - "No shoe zone" Good grief, there's a reason why soldiers wear boots inside a tank. Tanks are not Disney Land rides.

11:50 - Do they reall have to fill the tank with things that will fall on top of them when they make a maneuver... I mean, is there really nobody here smart enough? Nevermind the camo, because I already ranted over it.

13:30 - Gun breech is working wrong and loading technique is also wrong. Gotta load them fast and maybe not put the hand so deep inside. If that was real gun, she would have lost her left hand by now.

20:38 - Even a bigger one than our main character's? How far does this rabbit hole go?

What do I think about the ACTUAL chance of our main characters winning?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoMgnJDXd3k

No chance in hell. But I'm sure they would find a way to win. Somehow.

#17
Alexandre Charron-trudel

Alexandre Charron-trudel

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 28 posts
@rock gollem

i agree about the 80mm part; the KwK 37 7.5cm couldn't penetrate the 75mm armor on the hull of a KV; german crews had to go right up to it; the developers obviously haven't done their research, but they seem to have more of a sense of things, which improves with each episode. One thing that i found interesting, however, was the comment that "schools haven't been on land for ages". What do they mean by this? is it just schools that practice Panzerfahren? or are all major schools now turned into carrier-cities? this idea alone has a lot of fanfic potential, and i can't wait to see how they flesh the universe out; by the looks of things, i'd place the anime circa 2040, in a parallel universe where official wars between states were supplanted by Panzerfahren as a common sport. The "Girls" part is just for the "moe" factor. let me know what you think of this.

#18
5Cats

5Cats

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 47 posts
  • LocationWinnipeg, Canada
1:48 Well, it was only going about 10 mph (I'm guessing) so it's possible IN THEORY!~ lolz! But Mako's not an athlete, she has low blood pressure & stuff... she is a genius, so that's how she learned how to drive so fast.

5:00 Yeah, someone looked at a book and discovered "Woah! Germans had electric turrets!"

5:25 Naw, first there's 2 in the rear, and as those are knocked out the other 2 show up.

7:16 Yeah, there seems to have been a "plot" by the Student Council to let Team A win, in order to get Miho to become team Captain and lead them to Victory!@ With a capital V.

11:20 lolz! Girls being girly! Perhaps they put some velcro on their cushions and stuff to keep them from flying around?

@Alexandre: One way to keep your school-aged girls "out of trouble" (and away from boys!) is to put them in an all-girls school... on an aircraft carrier! Logical really...
Yes, perhaps it's an alternate future (like Strike Witches!) where WW2 didn't happen, BUT all those tanks got built and developed anyhow... with the world at peace (one hopes!) no need for battleships, just make floating schools! For girls! Perhaps only Japan is doing this? idk...

I have no problem with that theory, it's (dare I say it?) CUTE!

21:27 - I thought they drew the Matildas too big, and the M3 too small, but looking up a few things reveals that they have the sizes correct!

#19
rockgollem

rockgollem

    Potato Spud

  • Members
  • 43 posts
Per schools not on land...

Maybe they put schools on carriers, which are able to move around the world as some sort of a mean to make schools and students... "nationality" free?

Still not a good idea for logistics or economy, but that's one theory I have rolling around in the head.

#20
SerRompalot

SerRompalot

    Potato Sprout

  • Members
  • 5 posts
I'd say this is pretty much a case similar to how some professional animators find it difficult to watch some older movies because they point out and criticize every flaw and mistake and can't really pay attention to the finished product as a whole. Here, the more you know about tanks, the more difficult it becomes to suspend your disbelief.

@5Cats, it's not an alternate future where WW2 didn't happen because they specifically talk about Rommel, Hitler, and D-Day, among other things.

Historical inaccuracies and impossibilities aside, I did find the anime so far to be very funny, ergo enjoyable, at times. On a final note, rock I noticed you're ranting about the tactical failures of the girls, but as you already answered yourself in an earlier post, almost all of the girls have no experience whatsoever, so of course it would make sense that they know squat about combat and what you should and shouldn't be doing in any given situation.