8 replies to this topic

[Secros Matias Supreme]

Ignoring the powers and consentrating solely on personalities, let us review the characters of medaka box.

So if Medaka's personality is Aspergers and Ashini'n's personality is simulated reality, then what about everyone else.

Tsurubami must have a loner personality type

Oudo is narcisictic

Oudo's midget (yukuhashi) might be dependant?

Emukae is Yandere

Hanten would be back turning?

Gagamaru, the -13 vice pres would be easy amnesia or represed memories?


but Kumagawa, what personality disorder(s) does he have?

And what about shiranui?

Edited by Secros Matias Supreme, 24 September 2012 - 10:01 PM.

[Coma Culture]

Kumagawa would almost seem rather like a rather narcissistic person, but out of all of the characters, he seems the closest to Medaka's Aspergers than anyone. An absolute drive or focus some would border on obsession: Beating Medaka. Inability to react 'properly' or know when playing jokes or games with someone is inappropriate. Kumagawa, even nice Kumagawa, feels as out of place in the world more than anyone i know. His face, his features, his sudden and drastic personality changes along with his "verbal tic", the brackets, which fade when he seems to get serious...I'd go so far as to say Kumagawa is representative of Schizophrenia. Not quite at Disosociative Identity Disorder, since he seem to have control over the goings on in his head, to the point where he can 'shift his personality'. What he does afterwards, hardly seems like he's even in control.
Kumagawa is mentally disturbed. Anyone who can love someone and then, the next logical step is to RIP THEIR MOTHERFUCKING FACE OFF. That never really gets solved.

I guess Zen is a pretty good foil to him. Where as Kumagawa's personality shifts and tics - designed like a maze, a defense mechanism - and maybe becoming so complex that there really isn't a Kumagawa like he was when he is a kid. To that point, Zenkichi is extremely extroverted. One of those people who wear their hearts on their sleeve, bear no secrets, and if they aren't careful, end up boring. There has been no real marked change in Zen's behavior from start to finish. In that way he's dependable. But being so extroverted, it seems like every new character that gets introduced - somehow ends up dealing with Zenkichi. If they have a good heart, maybe he turns them good. If they are bad. maybe they have to fight him. There's nothing complicated about Zenkichi.
He's just one of those guys - one of those guys that was friends with everybody, because social circles seemed silly.

Oh, and Yukuhashi [Oudo's male midget BFFF] would definately be a dependent.

Hanten Shiranui would be an Isolationist - an Extreme Antisocial Disorder. Someone who has a fear of people knowing them, either because they are uncomfortable or they think others will do them rock. A typical aspect of Isolation Disorder is to have someone that is called a Link, and is used as the connection to the world in which most things come through. Obviously, the only person who has been with Hanten that long is Anshin'in.

Gagamaru would be Repressed Memories or Immaturity Disorder, one where the user is compelled that is they mature as society deems, they will lose their happiness. Essentially, its a fear of doing adult things and a fear of becoming and adult, because adult life is hard. Some people have his disorder as a fetish - child's play, baby play, things like that. The farther from adult the person can get, the farther they distance themselves from painful memories, labeled as Adult, and therefore unwanted. Gagamaru's repressed memories are easy to see, whats not easy to see is why he still does childlike things like cardgames and has a childlike disproportianate revenge when insulted. Bsically, very little bad social interaction.

P.S I dunno if my whole rant on Medaka acting like a person with Asperger's is what started this or you came to the conclusion on your own, but its awesome that someone thinks that way too! Thanks for investing some time into the theory.

Edited by Coma Culture, 23 September 2012 - 12:33 AM.

[Secros Matias Supreme]

Yay, finally someone responded, and yes I believe that it was your rant. You know, you could put all of this in a blog. By the way what about, Shiranui Hansode, the little girl?

[Coma Culture]

You really think so? do a blog just on Manga characters and their complexes or just Medaka box? if someone else had a blog, i wouldn't mind contributing.

Shiranui's character is being explored right now but from what she's done so far, there's at least a heavy dose of Denial. Her speeches to Zenkichi about an 'Act to benefit the princess' doesn't hold truth. If she was nasty to Zen. zen would spend the time he originally spent always hanging out with her with Medaka. If her job was to make Medaka happy, she'd have no reason to A. Maintain a good friendship with Zenkichi. B. She wouldn't have said her famous 'I couldn't stomach something so sweet.' line, which is just to herself so obviously benefitted nobody and C. Shehad no reason to tell Ajimu Najimi that she held feelings of love for Zen. It didn't change Anshin's plan, Medaka never found out. It didn't follow the guidelines to her job. That was purely her own personality. But from what we've seen recently, i think she suffers from Image Deficiancy Syndrome. She hates the things at Hakinowa despite her obvious joy while they were happening because she doesn't believe that she, as a Shiranui, can be worthy of such feelings of joy or happiness. Her feelings still being in Hakinowa and Kumagawa being unable to erase them is proof of this. As a minus, he cannot take away things which have strong positive emotion attached to them. Such as Emukae's Minus, he was unable to remove that. Or Zenkichi's true feelings of friendship. She sees herself as unworthy of happiness and joy because of her family, and theres a strong possibility being forced to compare herself to Medaka every day as a job has led to stress and poor physical image. She loves Zen, but wont act on it, brecause tiny, un-womanly Shiranui against the model-like body of Medaka probably causes her to feel bad about herself and her body through no fault of her own. Thats probably what led to the contempt between Medaka and Shiranui in the first place. The reminder of her job, watching her first crush gravitate towards Medaka and not being able to do a thing about it, and comparing herself to Medaka. Notice how she and Emukae, who has similar feelings towards Zenkichi but is in the same position of not recieving the romantic feelings she puts out, they get along well the times they are shown to interact.

Lastly, i'll say this about Shibuki Shibushi, Gagamaru's well-endowed female companion. She probably suffers from Masochism, Sadism and a little bit of emotional abuse. She seems a sponge to all the back physical pains in her life, and to the humiliations. Those are her strongest memories and seem to excite her. Its possible she has a humiliation complex, where she lusts after only those that make her feel humiliated, such as the 'Teacher that made her lick his shoes' in the past. When people do not give her either the ability to inflict pain on them or to be harmed from them, she grows disgusted and tird with them, to the point of killing her parents because they would neither be subject to her abuse nor would they abuse her. With Gagamaru around, he can push his pains onto her, keeping her satisfied as long as she can feel abused. She can also feel feelings of humiliation and take out her anger on him. but she is a prisoner in his care. She says she couldn't leave gagamaru even if she wanted to. She is both overjoyed and ashamed to have to be gagamaru's constant companion, especially since his childlike interests rarely present him asinterested in sex, which she appears interested and invested into.

[Secros Matias Supreme]

Well, yeah a blog. Obviously you have some sort of talent, to match character complexities with personality disorders so why not use it. Maybe first start with what ya got here about Medaka Box and then you can move on to other stuff. You're writing style is very interesting. I think I've become your fan.

[Akasha]

Why are people throwing terms like Asperger around without knowing all that much what they are talking about?

[Hungryman]

I was walking near and read it all through. I think I have something to add to Coma's and something to say myself.

About Zenkichi. He isn't as simple as Coma said, if that would be true, that won't be Medaka box. Actually the conception of this character isn't unique: there are thousands of guys who are just "normal Japanese schoolboys" , in thousands manga, who are trying to "save/protect all their friends/girlfriends/and their pets" from thousands enemies so it really makes sick. So what is so special about Zenkichi if he is so casual? A few very important things. First of all he is unbelievably strong-willed person, he do what he decided to do. At this point he can even compete with Medaka and it is the main reason he could caught up with he for such a long time. Speaking frankly, if to think about mental preparation, then he is the strongest in manga, where everyone would give up he won't.
I even can say that he is a real warrior, what I can hardly say about any other characters of his class( just remember his seppuku). And he also posses any good quality a normal human can held. Practically an etalon of man, and still he is just a normal man you possibly can meet on the street, with his own human fears and wishes and not a superhero or even a "prince" like Kouki. And I can't not to mention his leader's qualities, which Medaka don't posses: she is a solo-player while Zenkichi is a command one. Yes, he "get along with everyone" but this give him opportunity to understand people and to unite them in command. And that's why it seems to me he may be a good husband and a father.
And all of this is composed together into a one man, but still he looks looks like alive and "warm"? From my sight it's really amazing, and his personality is also something interesting you should think about, but he may seems really casual from the first sight because he is the only normal person in this insane asylum called Medaka box. Everyone else has some disturbs in their personalities that makes them bright and colourful that Zenkichi just fades on their foil.

You said everything right about Shiranui. She was playing roles so long that now she can't understand her own feelings.
But, please, tell me what is this thing:

Image Deficiancy Syndrome

I was searching through a lot of sites but I didn't find anything about this decease. Don't tell me you just made it up or you anime-psychologist career will end right here...

OK, but anyway I have a question for you. Why do you think Shiranui taking so easy and irrelevant that she will become new Iihiko, which is actually equal to her own death? That is a hard question for me, I have some theories abut it, but I've found all of then way too stupid and far-fetched.

Edited by Hungryman, 21 October 2012 - 10:00 AM.

[Coma Culture]

I was walking near and read it all through. I think I have something to add to Coma's and something to say myself.

About Zenkichi. He isn't as simple as Coma said, if that would be true, that won't be Medaka box. Actually the conception of this character isn't unique: there are thousands of guys who are just "normal Japanese schoolboys" , in thousands manga, who are trying to "save/protect all their friends/girlfriends/and their pets" from thousands enemies so it really makes sick. So what is so special about Zenkichi if he is so casual? A few very important things. First of all he is unbelievably strong-willed person, he do what he decided to do. At this point he can even compete with Medaka and it is the main reason he could caught up with he for such a long time. Speaking frankly, if to think about mental preparation, then he is the strongest in manga, where everyone would give up he won't.
I even can say that he is a real warrior, what I can hardly say about any other characters of his class( just remember his seppuku). And he also posses any good quality a normal human can held. Practically an etalon of man, and still he is just a normal man you possibly can meet on the street, with his own human fears and wishes and not a superhero or even a "prince" like Kouki. And I can't not to mention his leader's qualities, which Medaka don't posses: she is a solo-player while Zenkichi is a command one. Yes, he "get along with everyone" but this give him opportunity to understand people and to unite them in command. And that's why it seems to me he may be a good husband and a father.
And all of this is composed together into a one man, but still he looks looks like alive and "warm"? From my sight it's really amazing, and his personality is also something interesting you should think about, but he may seems really casual from the first sight because he is the only normal person in this insane asylum called Medaka box. Everyone else has some disturbs in their personalities that makes them bright and colourful that Zenkichi just fades on their foil.

You said everything right about Shiranui. She was playing roles so long that now she can't understand her own feelings.
But, please, tell me what is this thing:
I was searching through a lot of sites but I didn't find anything about this decease. Don't tell me you just made it up or you anime-psychologist career will end right here...

OK, but anyway I have a question for you. Why do you think Shiranui taking so easy and irrelevant that she will become new Iihiko, which is actually equal to her own death? That is a hard question for me, I have some theories abut it, but I've found all of then way too stupid and far-fetched.

Yeah, i agree. What was missing from what i said, you put perfectly. Warmth. That's the thing that differentiates Zenkichi from other protagonists. In Medaka Box, the role everyone plays is pretty well defined. The Perfect Girl; The Bishounen Prince; The Girl-Next-Door; The Overconfident Villain. Shiranui and Zenkichi are interesting because every pidgeonhole you place them in, they don't fit. You expect them to go right, they go left. You expect Zenkichi to stay by Medaka's side, he fights her. You expect it to be physical, instead its mental. You expect him to lose with grace, he wins by a landslide. You expect him to live happily ever after with his Childhood friend, and he chooses the moral highground through loneliness.
Why?
Wll, its complicated, but then again its not.
He's got life in him. We all have lots of sides. And while every time we expect Zenkichi to dip below the moral side, to be selfish, to be a jerk, to be mean, he sets it up like he finally will...and then, all along, he doesn't. He's a foil to the whole events of Medaka Box by being so relentlessly upbeat through his plight.
He's just so nice, so suprising.
To the people who prefer dark heroes, they have Kumagawa, who while sometimes is even more unpredictable, can be too predictable too.

And @hungryman, my title survives, i just phrased it wierd.
Basically, Shiranui has a self-image problem.
She sees herself as smarter than everyone else sometimes, sometimes she thinks that she is the worthless person in the room.
But right now, one thing doesn't change:
In her eyes, she was born inferior. Its like if Medaka was her older sister. While Shiranui got a small frame, turned out not to be as popular, couldn't get along with people except one, and that person is Zenkichi, the person she loves. And even HE loves Medaka. Its like Shiranui is Medaka's prototype. Everything Shiranui can do, Medaka can do better.
And her role to this person that makes her so inferior...Is a slave. Even if she wanted to break off and define her own personality and interests, she can't, because of her job. Its sad, really.

Its like if you were born into a family as the ugly younger brother. While your handsome older brother got straight A's, you struggled and got average girls. While your brother had a new girlfriend every week, the one girl you liked for years is obsessed with your older brother and only sees you as a friend. As you grow up, your brother gets into college, while you lose your way. Then, your brother becomes The first Astronaut/Cosmonaut to land on Mars, and you work at NASA as a janitor.
You would become bitter towards your brother, who was literally born with every advantage.
but the thing is, your brother would have had to work for those grades. Your brother might have hated the attention of all the girls. He might have struggled in college and worked blood, sweat and tears to get the Astronaut job. But you would never know in your bitterness, that everything was just as hard for him as it was for you.

In Medaka Box's case, we are seeing things through the point of view of the Successful Older brother. Shiranui is the younger brother, brimming with contempt, But like all families, they do love each other. Its just buried, you see.

Thats how Shiranui's view is warped. Hers is truly a sad story if you consider it. Maybe the most unfortunate person in this whole story. Except for the girl Minus, Shibuki.

[Hungryman]

Thanks for your answer about Shiranui. Well, you said everything right about her, through the metaphor about two brothers can be understood in a little wrong way, case Shiranui and Medaka are not relatives, and moreover, they knows each other for quiet short period of time. As for me, I see the main reason of her hate towards Medaka in her love towards Zenkichi. The second thing - she feels jealous of Medaka's freedom and it feels like very unfairly for her. But well, that's actually the same phenomenon of two brothers you had said before.

Anyway, it feels I haven't post here anything for ages, and actually I was planning to speak about Medaka and Kumagawa, as I've said before.

So in your previous posts you were repeating word "dependant", especially towards yukuhashi and minuses. But in my theory the most
dependant is...Medaka-san. Try to look at her this way: for more then fourteen years she was living relying on Zenkichi's reason. It was only purpose of her existence. But why didn't she start to look for her reason herself? Actually, this is how people should do things (through many don't) - to look around and to find your own goal in live, your own reason to live. But Medaka is the kind of person, who is afraid of live and as the result doesn't want to look for her own reason. She the kind of person, that rely her reasoning to someone else, with strong determination. Influenced by them, they continue living in order of reason given to them. Do you remember how Medaka couldn't understand Zenkichi when he said she was wrong? And how she couldn't understand many other things? I don't think that was because of her Asperger's, but mostly because she isolated herself from the inner world and didn't see anything "outside it". So only after she had seen her own situation and that she can look for her own reason, she started to be like a normal girl, always smiley and laughing. I have come to this idea, when I compared Medaka with another character Shusuke Amagi novel and anime series The Cromed Shelled Regios. The situation is that he is potentially one of the most strongest warriors of his world, but he doesn't see any reason to fight and to protect other people from a filth monsters (such a huge mutated things). He starts fighting seriously only after he got into a new platoon and was influenced by his older captain, who has a strong will to protect her city, but isn't as powerful as he( and he is ultimately strong, no need to for more levelling ). The captain doesn't understand how he could give up fighting through being so powerful and etc. By the way, in this case I can say for sure that the main hero is Asperger. He even used to kill people without realizing how bad it was (bus soon he realized it) and the author directly writes that: "he is quiet slow when it comes to people's relationships ". So if you are so interested in this theme, you can read it. Can recommend it to you as a very good thing (still I can be wrong case I don't know your taste well).

Kumagawa is definitely a dark hero. But you won't find anything like him so easily. The only thought that always come to my mind when I' starting to think about it is that he is an illegitimate son of Joker and a japanese woman. If to think, his and Medaka relationships are alike the one batman and Joker have - Joker always tries to drive batman crazy. And Kumagava himself said that all Jokers were his friends, didn't he? Ok. jokes aside.

I've found out by chance someone who could possibly be Kumagava's predecessor or at last he looks like Kumagawa. And I've found him... in philosophy of Friedrich Nietzsche. His name is "The ugliest man" and look what his speaks about himself:

Art thou angry with me because I have already racked language too
long? Because I have already counselled thee? But know that it is I,
the ugliest man,
-Who have also the largest, heaviest feet. Where I have gone, the
way is bad. I tread all paths to death and destruction.
But that thou passedst me by in silence, that thou blushedst- I
saw it well: thereby did I know thee as Zarathustra.
Every one else would have thrown to me his alms, his pity, in look
and speech. But for that- I am not beggar enough: that didst thou
divine.
For that I am too rich, rich in what is great, frightful, ugliest,
most unutterable! Thy shame, O Zarathustra, honoured me!

Doesn't that sounds very Kumagawa-like? Their was also told, that The ugliest man was the one who "killed the God" because God could saw his inner thoughts and ugliness and felt compassion for hit. The ugliest man couldn't bare it and killed the God. I don't clam that something like this was in manga, but the idea itself - the old Kumagava would certainly do something like this. For all 100%. By the way, in the notes to his work Nietzsche wrote that "The ugliest man" is something like in Buddhism and that "the worse - the better". I hardly can image what he was tolking about, case I didn't found anything like Kumagawa in Buddhism.

Another Nietzsche's thought is : "you must gather everything evil inside you, case the good one in human is too weak" and this also a very minus-like way. He got a lot of phrases like that.

And not only this. It seems like Medaka was doing thins in the same way. Remember her love war and her habit to love her enemies more then friends. Another quote:

"Be at least mine enemy!"- thus speaketh the true reverence, which
doth not venture to solicit friendship.
If one would have a friend, then must one also be willing to wage
war for him: and in order to wage war, one must be capable of being an
enemy.

And there are a lot of moments in manga like this one, I don't write here a lot of other quotes, just because it will take to much time. The most Nietzsche-like moment was during Kumagava and Medaka's battle, when Kumagawa said he always loved Medaka while he always hate her, and she said practically the same about Kumagawa. This is really something you probably won't find anywhere. I can't put it in a better way but the manga just "smells" like Nietzsche's way of thinking. I have no proves than the author have read THUS SPOKE ZARATHUSTRA, but it feels so. Well, their is a possibility that he hasn't and their thoughts just match, but logically this mean than Nisio Isin is at least as good as Friedrich Nietzsche?... OMG, logic is a really strange thing...

Edited by Hungryman, 10 November 2012 - 08:42 PM.