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Who is Who- Theories and speculations


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#41
svines85

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Of course, I think Zeze is Eugene. It's just too heavily hinted at this point.

I also want to add that, if Zeze is Eugene, I feel a little bad for him. He's a good guy and all of a sudden he has to bear all of the burdens of a past he didn't even commit. So Eugene's a bad guy, but Zeze isn't.

You know, I agree with you that there's been a certain amount of hinting about Zeze.........I also think there's been some content that has been presented in such a way as to create a lot of suspicion about Zeze's previous identity (if any). In other words he's one of the few characters we've got who's saying "I'm absolutely not having anything to do with all this....". I think it's very possible that this is part of the author's craft...........it's perhaps a means of misdirection. Bear in mind we've got a lot of people "saying" I'm this guy or I'm that guy..........but we don't necessarily know that. We've already seen one person say "oh yeah, I was the princess" and we knew that wasn't true.......who's to say we don't have a lot of that going on?

 

Zeze might be the reincarnated Eugene, he might not be. Eugene might not have been reincarnated at all. Do we really absolutely know that it's actually "Eugene" calling the shots in the current time line? It could be others using his name in order to advance their own agenda, right? 

 

Personally I think that's a big part of the beauty of the story.........the mystery of the identities of the reincarnated characters. We really only know for sure the identities of those characters we've been privy to the actual thoughts and memories of.........everybody else could be lying, drawing on their knowledge of others to misrepresent themselves for their own gain. 


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#42
acolyte

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I'm curious who Lucas really is - is he really Nanaura?

 

this seems kinda dumb to say, but what proof do we have that the characters are actually dead? and also alot of them probably died from a sword wound or something like that instead of magic. thought i'd say this and I would love to hear other people's opinions on the matter.

We have no proof, which is problematic, because you can lie that you're that dead person, and unless someone comes up and deny you (like Minami vs Yuu), you can lie all you want.

Argh there's more and more deceit now. It's painful.



#43
StelraEtnae

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I recently read about a theory that Yuu is actually lying about who she is, and that in fact Yuu = Glen. And I'm totally hooked, so I thought that I'd share it.

 

After finding about about that theory, I looked back at the previous chapters, and found that while there isn't anything solid to prove it, there actually isn't anything to disprove it either. As far as I remember, in all the flashbacks about Bart, Glen was there too. And in chapter 26, Yuu was acting a little strangely when Momoka started talking about Bart's injuries. It's highly possible that Bart wasn't reincarnated because he wasn't killed by magic and Yuu, knowing this, is pretending to be him. That Momoka was there during Bart's last moments would threaten that secret if anyone managed to connect the dots about how Bart died.

 

The reason why she did this would probably be because she doesn't want to come between Minami and Haruko, who were already together prior to the memory recovery commotion. The addition of Glen, who was in love with Veronica, would have complicated matters too much.

Remember, the revelation scene went like this:

Yuu revealed herself to be "Son of Belbania" -> Minami revealed that he was Veronica -> Yuu said that she was Bart

It's possible that Yuu decided not to reveal herself as Glen after finding out that Minami was Veronica.

 

EDIT: And I just noticed one more thing. In that chapter where Minami and co were going to save Meguro from Yanuma, Haruko mentioned how Bart could build a wall of dirt using magic. The way it was phrased, it would seem that it's an ability specific to Bart and that Rida (and others) wouldn't be able to use it. Yuu's reacted awkwardly to that, and eventually said that she couldn't remember how to use anything more than beginner's magic. I'm now thinking that that was an excuse so that it won't be revealed that she cannot use Bart's magic.

 

------

 

About Zeze, I'm leaning towards the idea that while he was Prince Eugene, the "Prince Eugene" that's pulling the strings of Nanaura's group is an impostor. I'm thinking that it's Lucas, but the question is, who is the mastermind's identity in the present life? Considering how secretive the mangaka is being about him, I'm guessing that it's a character that has already appeared, but WHO? I really want to know the answer to this, because I have no idea. X.X

 

------

 

And then there's Kamioka. She has been exposed to magic since middle school, but shows no sign of recovering any memories, which is strange. Could it be that she isn't involved in the whole past life thing after all? Yet the mangaka has introduced her as a fairly important character, so I find it hard to believe that she doesn't have some sort of connection. Unless she actually recovered her past life memories after that first encounter, and is just pretending now? But that doesn't quite fit with her character either...

I have to say that Kamioka's involvement is one of the biggest mysteries in the story. Just what do we know about her? Hardly anything, really.


Edited by StelraEtnae, 23 November 2013 - 05:50 PM.


#44
inzaratha

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After reading this - are we even sure that Nanaura is really Cotton and not Eugene or someone else.   It seems that Glen was killed by magic and Lucas was but we don't know if Bart was.   So I agree that Yuu could be Glen and maybe that is why she was saying she was Veronica to get Veronica to reveal herself.    It seems that a bunch of people could be lying and Zeze might be Eugene and might not be.   Why the Glen with and without the earing on too???    And Glen was really in love with Veronica but she did not know how much.   It is all so complicated but so great,  I think its one of the best plots I've seen, keeps me guessing.  



#45
margaretman2

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Some food for thought:

 

- Zeze might be Lucas and threw out Eugene's line to attempt to draw out Minami, similar to how Minami spoke about Eugene when Zeze entered the karaoke room.

 

- If Nanaura is Glen, he might be able to use magic thanks to Lucas the priest inscribing unauthorized magic in his soul.

 

- Speaking of unauthorized, I suspect that Nishizono & Yuu both lost magic, because Lilly healed Bart. That was a forbidden act. I might be a coincidence, but they are standing together in chapter 27 page 28 on Batoto.

 

- I lean toward believing that Yuu is Bart, because Bart offered to arrange a meeting between the Princess and Glen. Yuu pushed Minami forward to confess to Haruko. I'm probably in the minority, but I think that Yuu has some mild interest in Minami & Bart liked the Princess. In chapter 25, page 12 on Batoto, follow Yuu's gaze and it leads straight to Harusumi. Yuu also approaches Minami early on in the school year to invite him to karaoke. There's a picture that I can't find right now that made me think that Bart favored Veronica. I'll post it when I find it and still think the same.



#46
Yokohama

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Zeze might be the reincarnated Eugene, he might not be. Eugene might not have been reincarnated at all. Do we really absolutely know that it's actually "Eugene" calling the shots in the current time line? It could be others using his name in order to advance their own agenda, right? 

 

Personally I think that's a big part of the beauty of the story.........the mystery of the identities of the reincarnated characters. We really only know for sure the identities of those characters we've been privy to the actual thoughts and memories of.........everybody else could be lying, drawing on their knowledge of others to misrepresent themselves for their own gain. 

Ohh man xD I realized you're more than likely right

 

Scratch what I said - I think Hiroki really is Glen and that she's faking it on purpose. Though I have no idea why...

 

And yeah.. I really don't think it's Eugene that's pulling the strings this time around. I know Lucas was proved innocent in the recent chapters, but somehow, I still think it's him and that um, that glasses guy that keeps getting his phone stolen is Lucas.

 

My small justification: During the chapter Maki got officially recruited, the glasses-guy says that he finds it really comforting to have a priest on their side. A little later in the chapter, Maki realizes that priests can heal other priests - and it's hard to trust anyone in the priesthood because Lucas might've recruited them already since he'd want to have a priest on his side.

and even more suspicious was when he screamed "WHY! PRINCE EUGENE!" when he knows it's Nanaura, and, he chose to stay in the line of fire. I mean, he knew they were gonna fire shots, it'd have been in his best interest to just skedaddle as soon as the first shot was fired. I dunno, those glasses are starting to look mighty suspicious.

 

I really like the way this manga goes about things. I like it when I'm wrong and I like it when I'm right, because either I feel "woaaa I would've never guessed" or think "I thought so! That was done nicely" Gosh, I wish the author could draw at light speed so we could see more.

 

That saiiiiid, I'm starting to really like Glen/Veronica. I sort of wish that the past would have its own spinoff series just so we could see more of them. ;;



#47
svines85

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Ohh man xD I realized you're more than likely right

Haha! Ah well, we'll see in time I suppose.  :D

 

I think I just have a very cynical nature about some things and have come to be very cautious about allowing myself to be led too blithely by any author's overtures. They're as often as not a set-up. XD 


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#48
Habatake

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This is my first time posting here so hello everyone.

Since I decided to post something too, and followed by your discussion so far I'd like to ask first if it's alright/do you want me to put on the heavy spoilers? (That's come along with the reason of why I think who is who)

 

I've finally got volume 9 with me. (Because I'm so curious that I couldn't wait for new chapters release lol) So I have many new discovered things in this volume, Might say that like the big step to solve many things. As you said, this manga is brilliant in one way to lead your thoughts and I'm so amazed just when you pointed out that maybe Hiroki's not Bart but be Glen himself. I never thought of that before! But as I see now it really makes sense. 

 

Well, if you don't want (and that's understandable if you want to read along with the scans) I will put it simply with only Bart identity that at the end of this volume Lily will gain more memory around the time she saw Bart collapsed that leads to new question of how he died. That's the precise point that I could say. 

 

What's more that keep bugging me is the earring that Glen have lost and wear back once in the memory in ch.24. Do you have any thought about this? Anyway I'm just curious since why he lost it in the first place, it's kind of something to show that you're from Zerestria side and loyalty right?

 

P.S. Sorry in advance in my English though.


Edited by Habatake, 19 December 2013 - 08:24 PM.


#49
Yokohama

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This is my first time posting here so hello everyone.
Since I decided to post something too, and followed by your discussion so far I'd like to ask first if it's alright/do you want me to put on the heavy spoilers? (That's come along with the reason of why I think who is who)

Hello and welcome to the forums!! Your english is pretty good and understandable, so no worries.

Does that mean bart really died by sword D: i was sort of hoping he was here, but not as hiroki. Argh, nooooooo sob i really wanted bart in this world....

:( To answer your question though... Glen's earring got ripped off by a branch, and yes, it is something that shows your loyalty to Zerestia. (I think more specifically, to Veronica)
i don't believe there was any actual significance in him losing the earrings, but it stood him out from the crowd. Ie. it made him special.

I think him regaining the earring is Veronica giving him hers. In the scene where Veronica and Rida separate (Rida dying, it was somewhere in the beginning chapters [[i lied. I reread and it was ch 18 when veronica is blasting off shots with lucas. I coulda sworn....]]) Veronica doesn't have both her earrings. Personally, i'd always assumed that it fell off during a fight, but it seems more likely now that Glen is wearing Veronica's earring. I think this sets up a potential promise between glen and veronica that minami doesn't remember.

I think there's a way to spoiler tag? I'm not sure how to do it.

Oh yeah i didnt come up with this theory my own. I read somewhere about it and it made sense with what i thought sorry i made it seem like i was all smart haha

Edit: god i keep editing this

Edited by Yokohama, 30 December 2013 - 03:30 AM.


#50
inzaratha

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This is my first time posting here so hello everyone.
Since I decided to post something too, and followed by your discussion so far I'd like to ask first if it's alright/do you want me to put on the heavy spoilers? (That's come along with the reason of why I think who is who)

  Welcome!    Yes you can spoiler tag things using bbc code on here at least for ones that are not out in translation yet as I'm sure some would welcome that.  

Spoiler
 

 

Yes, the earring thing had me wondering too and I think it's definitely a clue to something - that idea about the princess giving him one is a great notion I could see that being the case.    There are certain things missing from Minami's memories too especially at the very end and I think it's because Veronica witnessed Glen's death or perhaps inadvertatently caused it by reflected magic or he died protecting her.

I think that Glen knew that Eugene was going to betray her and he was there at the end to protect her.   It just seems that would fit with his nature.

 

The more I think about it - I think that the whole mass reincarnation of them all together is also from a magic - one strong enough that only royalty or the preisthood could have done and then someone very good at it.    Such as if the princess felt strongly about all her people dying she might have used her own blood in death to bring all of them back with her together...   Minami got his memories back earlier than anyone else because it was more important for him...    If there was not some magic to bind them together to come back together wouldn't they just have reincarnated separately at different times like regular reincarnation? 

Anyway that is just my speculation as I don't read Japanese and have not seen further ahead than the current translated....

 

Yes I think there is a strong possibility that quite a few are lying about how they are, there is just too many inconsistencies.  

Also why would have Lucas needed other priests unless he wanted them for healing himself etc if he was injured or there might be complex magic that requires two or more people to perform.

I was thinking that Lucas was on Eugene's side or the mastermind himself but that is not necessarily the case either it could all be Eugene and yes Lucas could have used Eugene's words to try to get a reaction too.   The neutral way that Zeze is acting in fact is more indicative of the priesthood than it would be of Eugene too.   But then again he could be Eugene trying to hide so we really don't know.


Edited by inzaratha, 26 December 2013 - 11:58 AM.


#51
Habatake

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Thank you for your reply!

The first thing that was came to my mind is that...

Yes, this story is indeed a heartbreaking drama one...

 

 

How should I put it... guessing is kind of enjoyable but at some point it’s just like... the author seems never be bored to trick us or so I thought.

Maybe it's just me but still I'd like to say that this volume came out like turning the table.

 

About Glen's earring… Now that I think about it again, it also appears as one part of this volume. vv They once talked about 'the earrings' (in ch.28) ; See in spoiler*

 

Next... Glen's nature, I have to accept that when I started to read this manga, I can't help but fall in love with his character, to think that aside from his rudeness from the beginning-- he is like the type who end up have the most loyalty in the end, and if you're talking about who's the most pathetic guy that might be him, first about his background, status and also in love...

 

About the reincarnations... what makes them be brought back together, since the part of before Veronica's dying(same to the most others) seems to be still unclear, so it might be up to that event before she died that can make the actual answer for it. (Or maybe it's just for the author to set up the story of them altogether in one school like when in one castle)

 

And I’d like to inform you something that about the original manga, there’re some volume(start from volume 6) called ‘limit(限定版)’ Which different from normal volume because they've different cover-- Past life illustration instead of this world’s version and they’re also include a ‘Special booklet’ and ‘Drama CD’

 

Example : Volume 9

 

Well, good luck for us though, as the scanlation’s group began to pick it up into the project too! Don’t forget to take a look in the future xD

 

 

Sorry for that's long talk I have there,

So! Here's the spoiler that we were waiting for. Also thank you for teaching me how to hide the spoiler ne, inzaratha-san.

 

 

CAUTIONS :

Well, I'd say again that I'm not actually can translate Japanese but I'll try to not get it wrong anywhere.

It's SUPER LONG, so be prepared(?) and I'm also sorry that I can't make it easier to read haha..

 

Spoiler

 

It looks really long, huh… Hope you’re not bored enough to give up on reading this lol.

 

Well, that’s all for now! Wish you all a happy holiday at the end of this year--


Edited by Habatake, 30 December 2013 - 04:47 AM.


#52
StelraEtnae

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I'd like to mention my suspicion regarding a character that I think may just be Lucas:
Kikuchi
Here's my basis for that, though it isn't all that solid at this point
1) Ryuuji noticed something strange about the alibi list, though he couldn't quite place what was wrong. From what I saw, Meguro and Kikuchi's alibis didn't add up (Meguro said he was with Teshimano, Kikuchi said he was with Meguro)
2) On the day Kamioka was attacked, he was wearing the school uniform - which fits one element of the attacker's profile
3) When Ootomo said during the first meeting that they could use magic in this world, Kikuchi exclaimed "We can really use it?" Considering that Kikuchi is supposedly a servant and thus unable to use magic, this statement is strange. However, this may just be a matter of translation.
4) Out of the minor characters, he's one of the ones that pop up a lot. He was also the one to be attacked on the rooftop, but that could easily have been staged.
5) We haven't seen a single flashback from him yet, so it's hardly proven that he really was a servant. His past life self is just completely unknown to us, besides the name.
6) And if we still want to think of Lucas as being involved with Nanaura's gang (it does still appear that someone is pulling the strings at the back - just who had Nanaura been talking to on the phone that day?), Kikuchi numbers among one of those who were absent from the excursion in the latest chapters.
7) Though it doesn't seem likely that Lucas was the mastermind anyway, he seems much too harmless. And the personality of Lucas shown lately matches better with Kikuchi than an evil priest would too, which just fuels my suspicions.
 
The main reason that I'm thinking that he is a significant character is that it would be kinda anti-climatic for the mangaka to introduce a completely new character at this point and claim that he/she is Lucas. The major players - Eugene, Glen and Lucas - would very likely have one of the existing characters as their reincarnations.
This has already been proven for Eugene, at least, which leaves us with Glen (who is increasingly speculated to actually be Hiroki) and Lucas.
Kamioka is another possibility, of course, but she doesn't show any signs of being involved even after numerous encounters with magic.
 
Thoughts? Think that I may be on to something, or that I'm completely off?


#53
inzaratha

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Thanks so much for the details Habatake ! - after this latest chapter and the flashback's that Zeze had while sleeping but not waking it makes a lot more sense ( He doesnt' really remember yet  but he was doing everything for his older brother after his younger brother was killed - he is the middle son )  Also thanks for all the info on the earrings.  

I think you are right about with the speculation that Hiroki is really Glen and not Bart.   I think Bart might have been killed in battle by the sword or something.  

I also think there are other players involved who have not revealed themselves.   

Actually unless the series would be shorter than I hope - I think that there will definitely be new characters introduced still so I would expect that rather than feeling that is out of place - especially in these genres - mystery and fantasy.. 



#54
bram_history

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Habatake my goodness ... that was one fine theory, I like it. I also agree that Hiroki is Glenn, based on how she can't use magic, how she recognize Veronica's parfume and because maybe Bart didn't die because Lily healed him. Also personality traits that makes her more to Glenn than Bart, but that's not strong enough as three I mentioned before. Gosh this manga too lovely!



#55
inzaratha

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I'm beginning to think it's the older brothers of Eugene and Glen and Bart that were behind a lot of bad things - but I didn't think they were at the castle where they would have reincarnated. 



#56
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Well, we now (as of ch 28) know that whoever Zeze is, he really doesn't remember.  He may actually be Eugene, but he isn't behind any plots . . . we've got his internal thoughts about not remembering and not wanting to.  From his dream sequence I should probably be able to tell who he is, but I've lost track a bit.  It looks like someone high-powered, but this story has a few of those, and I didn't notice names being mentioned.  But Eugene is surely a sizable possibility, and Glen is definitely ruled out--he wasn't nearly that posh.

 

Meanwhile, it's pretty funny that Harusumi and co. think Nanaura is working for the prince doing dastardly deeds, and Harusumi's friends are prepared to do whatever it takes to protect their princess from Nanaura, while Nanaura is doing dastardly deeds in an attempt to trap the prince, who he thinks is Harusumi, because he's prepared to do whatever it takes to protect his princess.  I hope they actually find out what's up with each other soon.  The look on Nanaura's face if he finds out he nearly killed the princess trying to preserve her because he thought she was Eugene . . . that's going to be priceless.



#57
Tgirl

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Alright, I'm going to come out of the woodwork a little bit and shed a few spoilers (of the later chapters) with you guys. I'm taking these spoilers from the Tales Yotsuba blog.

 

Really really resist the spoiler tag if you want to keep guessing of the future. If you can do it, kudos. It's really worth waiting for the next four chapters. You guys are in for a real treat. Things definitely get more exciting from here on and out. :)  Deus Ex Scans are slowly catching up.

 

9/4/14 update ----  After finding the full raw of Chapter 33, thanks to the missing speech bubbles, I now understand what the characters are fully saying.  (On the other hand, someone has tranlsated this chapter somewhere using a nifty online program.   I will change some things in my spoiler tag to reflect the accuracy. 

 

Spoiler

 

Gotta go.   Remember, these are just some snippets that I think are important. I still look forward to Deus Ex Scans' translations, anyways.  I am buying the tanks as they come out, but my Japanese comprehension can't be that good. :> 


Edited by Tgirl, 04 September 2014 - 06:15 AM.


#58
defry

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I think the priest Lucas is the girl Mizuki. She sad she was a priest but we never went in to details about it.

 

Remember when Maki was out with the girls, she got the message and said the timing was liking someone knew what she was doing. Also, remember that the girl Mizuki wasn't with Minami in a lot of places. I think Lucas, Veronica and Glen might be involved in some spell or because of the spirits, thus, they were gender-bendered. Anyways, I think Mizuki is always watching from the sidelines. So Lucas or Mizuki might be the mastermind.