32 replies to this topic

[GodOfAll]

This is so overdue...
Ok, lets discuss Luffy's strength after the time skip!
I'm betting Admiral, or slightly stronger than Ace pre time skip. Anyone taking bets?

[ValorantX]

Admiral strength? Shouldn't it be obvious that it's definitely not even close. I'm sorry but I don't need to calculate it out for you. That means Luffy is among the strongest in the world, including the four emperors.

[Khing Panusiri]

He has many new moves like gomu gomu red hawk (ignite his fist into flames and explodes after hitting an opponent), color of armament: hardening (make a part of his body strong enough to withstand blunt attacks), gomu gomu snake shot (not sure on the name, but i think it shocks the opponent), and his conquering of kings haki is wayy better than before too. I dont think he would be as good as the admirals though

[ValorantX]

His 2 years of training guided him to master Haki and his Devil Fruit Powers.

1. He can use Haoshoku Haki (King's disposition) to knock out weaker people unconscious at will in contrast to before when it was released only at critical moments. He can also use this skill to affect the minds of creatures around him, such as stopping them from attacking him.
2. He can use Kenbunshoku Haki to predict all the movements of attacks before they happen. He also gained the ability to use this form of haki to sense the presence of enemies far away.
3. He can use Busosoku Haki to strengthen all of his attacks and also harden parts of body (turning them black) to make a powerful offensive or defensive move. He can also now hurt those who possess Devil Fruit Powers, most notably those who possess Logia/Logia like powers.
4. He can use Gear Second to increase the blood circulation limited to certain parts of his body for his attacks, this helps him conserve what would be otherwise wasted energy.
5. When using Gear Third, he can limit the increase in size of what was previously his whole arm to just his first. As a result, he can stretch his arm to launch a much faster attack than before. It's also notable that Luffy completely got rid of the aftereffect of Gear Third (shrinking down in size for a while.)

Using these abilities that he developed, he's able to form a new range of different techniques.

If there's anything else I missed, please be free to add onto it.

[Khing Panusiri]

you got all of them! i still cant wait to see what other techniques luffy have in store

[GodOfAll]

so we generally think luffy is about an admiral (stronger one), no?

[ValorantX]

-________- wtf NO he might give trouble to an admiral but he would still get pummeled in the end. If he was really that strong, he would have little trouble defeating any enemies lower than 4 emperor's level. Do you know how ridiculously strong admirals are? The gap between Vice Admiral and Admiral is huge. (Luffy's grandfather was a Vice Admiral, but he got requests to be an Admiral many times, and he was strong enough to corner Gold Rogers several times which is why he is considered a Marines hero)

And all I did was list the new abilities he gained, how would you conclude that he is of an admiral strength by just that? If you're a fan of a series you would know that Admiral=Four Emperor's strength.

Let's see some examples of their ridiculous strength for each of the admirals before the time skip.

Aokiji

Kuzan has the powers of the Hie Hie no Mi, a Logia Devil Fruit that allows him to control, create, and become ice. He can create enough ice to cover a giant, a Sea King or several square miles of ocean within mere moments. He was even able to freeze the tsunamis created by Whitebeard, who is often hailed as the world's strongest man. In battle, he uses his ice powers to disable and immobilize enemies, freezing their bodies solid just by touching them, and threatening to shatter their fragile forms. Like other Logia users, he is capable of breaking himself into his particular element to avoid damage from most physical attacks. Kuzan also has extreme amounts of resistance towards cold, due to his Devil Fruit's element, as he is able to freeze his body parts and turn back to normal without any tissue damage. This fruit is so powerful that his usage of it during his ten day battle with Akainu permanently changed the weather on one side of Punk Hazard, turning that side into a frozen wasteland.

Aside from that and his Devil Fruit powers, his physical proficiency is also extremely high, as he is able to repel simultaneous attacks from Zoro, Luffy, and Sanji without taking any damage, and took a Haki-imbued kick from Marco and was seen with no injuries moments later. He also jumped to a very extreme height in mere seconds, in order to freeze a pair of tsunamis caused by Whitebeard. He is also able to travel at tremendous speed, as seen when attacking Buggy, whether this is due to him using Soru or his Devil Fruit is unknown. He also has extremely acute hearing, being able to hear activity underwater, before the Whitebeard War began.
Along with this, he is very powerful, as being an admiral grants him the title of the strongest individual fighter within the World Government and Marines, and is able to fight against notably powerful figures such as Diamond Jozu, the Third Division Commander of the Whitebeard Pirates, defeating him with relative ease, and could even fight Whitebeard equally himself despite his Haki abilities. He was also acknowledged by Jaguar D. Saul, who had destroyed several huge warships and had lifted one by himself, that Kuzan's strength was abnormal, even before he was an admiral. Another testament to his power as an admiral is that he emerged mostly unharmed after the Whitebeard War. Furthermore, he was able to combat against fellow admiral Sakazuki on perfectly equal terms, and they dealt each other grave injuries during their 10 day battle before Aokiji ultimately lost.

Kizaru

He was even able to fight Whitebeard alone, causing him severe injuries.
He possesses great physical endurance, as shown when he was kicked to the ground by Marco without even receiving a scratch. He possesses great physical strength, capable of holding down Whitebeard's bisento with just one foot, and is capable of fighting Rayleigh and Whitebeard equally despite their Haki abilities. He also has great accuracy, as shown when he shot and destroyed the key to Ace's shackles whilst it was still in Luffy's hands.

As a Logia-user, he is able to let objects pass through him and reconstruct his body from energy particles. He is capable of moving and attacking at the speed of light, and all of his attacks are based on the element of light; such as firing energy blasts from his fingertips or feet with extreme precision. His power is very destructive, causing huge explosions and easily destroying buildings. He also has the ability to reflect himself, essentially moving from one location to the next at the speed of light.

Akainu

Akainu has an incredible amount of superhuman durability shown by the fact that not even two quake-powered blows at point-blank range from Whitebeard were able to keep him down, the latter of the two was powerful enough to split Marine Ford in two, and he was still able to fight the Whitebeard Pirates and two former Shichibukai (Crocodile and Jinbe). He has enormous stamina, being able to fight numerous enemies and being able to keep going without showing any signs of exhaustion. He was able to easily defeat Jinbe, Emporio Ivankov, and Inazuma. His durability also extends to Haki attacks since it took Whitebeard's own Haki to actually affect him. He also is shown to possess unimaginable strength, as seen when he stopped Whitebeard's bisento with just one leg.

Akainu possesses the Magu Magu no Mi, a Logia-class Devil Fruit which grants him the ability to transform his body into magma and manipulate it at will. As a Logia, Akainu can let physical attacks pass through him without injury and can only be wounded with the use of Haki, Kairoseki, being caught off guard and his elemental weakness. Apparently, Akainu is aware of Haki and found some way to avoid Haki attacks, even after Marco and Vista sliced him in the neck with Haki infused attacks.

Akainu's presence alone was enough to deter the Blackbeard Pirates from making a trade with the Marines for a Marine Battleship, and effectively frightened the Blackbeard Pirates off the island they were inhabiting briefly.

His ability is naturally of a higher order than Ace's pyrokinetic abilities, as the higher heat and smothering abilities of his magma allowed him to successfully harm Ace despite Ace's Logia-defense, and ultimately kill Ace due to this superiority. Akainu's Devil Fruit allows him to take on people like Emporio Ivankov and Jinbe with minimal effort. During the decisive ten day battle on Punk Hazard for the position of fleet admiral, Akainu showed the furious power of his Devil Fruit as he changed the weather of one side of Punk Hazard and left it in a blaze.

All three of the current admirals are very high-level users of Haki, shown when using Busoshoku Haki together to block Whitebeard's powerful shock wave. All three of them are also able to survive a strike imbued with Haki, despite it nullifying their intangibility, though Aokiji did bleed from the mouth after a sneak attack by Jozu, imbued with Haki, though it made no further injuries; Akainu survived two Haki-enforced slashes in the neck, though he noted the discomfort the strikes made. They are all strong enough to combat against Whitebeard alone, with Kizaru and Akainu causing him severe harm (albeit that Jozu interfered in Aokiji's fight), as well as to fight on par with the top three Whitebeard Pirates commander each, and eventually overpowering the said commanders with relative ease, with Akainu even killing one.

Is Luffy that strong yet? No

Edited by Saphsin, 02 September 2012 - 02:45 AM.

[GodOfAll]

Then again, remember how the dark king said he is not as strong as he USED to be. That means the right hand man of roger > admiral or 2 (assuming the strength don't change through the generations). And btw, whitebeard was sick. And there's also the thing about the fleet admiral (highest rank marine). You would wonder how strong he is if the strength of a vice admiral is vastly inferior to that of an admiral. btw when kizaru fought the dark king, it was basically a young man fighting an aged grandpa.

[Nasakeshira]

I'd say Luffy + Sanji or Zoro would be strong enough to combat an Admiral but they'd eventually lose. I'll say that Luffy is right under Admiral but easily above a Vice-Admiral. But as we know Luffy gets stronger every time he fights someone vastly stronger than him and he finds a way to win by creating new moves or by finding their weakness. (Lost to Crocodile like 7 times before he won, but after he won that battle he could fight Crocodile evenly) So if Luffy were to go 1v1 against an Admiral he'd make great strides in becoming stronger. By like the 12th time he'd be able to win I think.

On a side note I wonder how Aokiji will play into things will he be like a Bounty Hunter, Free Lance Pirate Hunter or just like chilling riding his bike or something.

[GodOfAll]

Got killed 3x by crocodile, effectively.
Hmm, I was thinking that pre time skip, luffy could beat down vice admiral, so after the time skip, assuming he gains "one rank" he can match an admiral.

[inFamous]

Do any of you know what the One Piece SBS Volumes are: http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/SBS_Volume_65

On SBS Volume 65, Oda answered a question comparing Luffy's Haoshoku Haki level to Shanks and Rayleigh's Haoshoku Haki level. Even though Oda only mentioned Luffy's Haoshoku's Haki and not the other 2, I believe that we should still consider them. After all, Haoshoku Haki is only as strong as the will in the person using it, and Luffy has ALOT of that. So if that Haki is not yet fully developed, then the other 2 can't possibly be fully developed either. In other words, unless he can wield 2 of the powerful Devil Fruits in the World, like Blackbeard can, Luffy is not Admiral Level...

[flowsthead]

Admirals are not at the strength of the Four Emperors. It should be noted that Whitebeard completely crushed Akainu in a one on one fight. He took some damage to his face but didn't die, and meanwhile almost killed Akainu. And on top of that, he was weaker than he was at his prime while the admirals are all in their prime. Plus, he got stabbed by Squardo. Plus, Akainu we know is slightly stronger than Aokiji.

So yeah. the Four Emperors are definitely stronger than the admirals. They are definitely on another level. And Luffy is neither at the Four Emperor, nor at the Admiral level yet.

[lanaclana]

hell im not even sure if luffy can beat smoker at this point, and smoker is just a vice admiral. also luffy's next enemy is going to be doflamingo who is just a shichibukai who knows if hes even strong enough to take him on. Luffy was even with jinbei as well, definitely not admiral status. Probs just shichibukai level right now.

[flowsthead]

hell im not even sure if luffy can beat smoker at this point, and smoker is just a vice admiral. also luffy's next enemy is going to be doflamingo who is just a shichibukai who knows if hes even strong enough to take him on. Luffy was even with jinbei as well, definitely not admiral status. Probs just shichibukai level right now.

Not every Shichibukai is the same and not every Vice Admiral is the same. Garp is a Vice Admiral that is at least at Admiral level. Vice Admiral probably has the largest strength discrepancy of all other positions because Admiral can only be 3 people, thus you get a stop gap at the Vice Admiral level. Luffy is definitely stronger than some Vice Admirals and weaker than others.

Shichibukai can be thought of the same way. There are Shichibukai Luffy is stronger than and others he is weaker than. For all we know, Doflamingo might be the strongest Shichibukai, considering he has a strong Vice Admiral level pirate working for him. You are definitely underestimating the shichibukai. Mihawk used to fight evenly with Shanks, one of the four strongest pirates in the world. Mihawk probably is no longer even with Shanks, but he is definitely still a ridiculous power.

EDIT: Forgot to say, there are still many things we do not know about organizations and strength levels, like the newest admiral, the strength of Dragon and his revolutionaries, and Kaido and Big Mom's strength. Luffy has a lot of matches and re-matches to go before we can get an accurate assessment of his strength.

Edited by flowsthead, 15 October 2012 - 07:21 AM.

[inFamous]

hell im not even sure if luffy can beat smoker at this point, and smoker is just a vice admiral. also luffy's next enemy is going to be doflamingo who is just a shichibukai who knows if hes even strong enough to take him on. Luffy was even with jinbei as well, definitely not admiral status. Probs just shichibukai level right now.

Lol, there's no way Smoker is stronger than Luffy. Luffy was already faster and stronger than him before the time-skip, he proved that in the War of The Best. The only reason he had trouble with Smoker before is because he couldn't "touch" him. As of right now is a different story. You shouldn't look down on Luffy like that, the only reason he's struggling right now is because Law told Luffy to capture Ceasar Clown, not beat him up. Law needs Ceasar Clown with his mind intact so he can operate that machine. If he wasn't holding back he would've been using Gear 3 and ended this arc a long time ago.

[Captain99919]

Rule No. 1 of Manga : There is no certain power levels, any one can beat any one in a fight given special circumstances.

We saw that with Eneru, I rate Eneru as "Admiral" class but Luffy still beat him because he is rubber.

[The Warrior Gentleman]

Rule No. 1 of Manga : There is no certain power levels, any one can beat any one in a fight given special circumstances.

We saw that with Eneru, I rate Eneru as "Admiral" class but Luffy still beat him because he is rubber.

While it may be true that there are generally no power levels, circumstances cannot determine everything. They may give
you more chances and advantages, but they cannot shape everything.

I disagree with your rating of Eneru since he seemed to rely more on his Logia. He had the Color of Observation, but was
unable to deal much damage outside it.
I believe that Eneru is below the Admiral class but likely above the Vice Admiral class because of both Mantra and is Logia ability.

Admirals are not at the strength of the Four Emperors. It should be noted that Whitebeard completely crushed Akainu in a one on one fight. He took some damage to his face but didn't die, and meanwhile almost killed Akainu. And on top of that, he was weaker than he was at his prime while the admirals are all in their prime. Plus, he got stabbed by Squardo. Plus, Akainu we know is slightly stronger than Aokiji.

So yeah. the Four Emperors are definitely stronger than the admirals. They are definitely on another level. And Luffy is neither at the Four Emperor, nor at the Admiral level yet.

Hmmm, the Four Emperors, like the Admirals and Admirals, are a category where people people of variable but comparable strength. Even though Whitebeard
was well past his peak strength, he still deserved the title of The Strongest Man in the World, and is probably stronger than the other Four Emperors.

I still agree that Luffy is below the level of the Emperors

Lol, there's no way Smoker is stronger than Luffy. Luffy was already faster and stronger than him before the time-skip, he proved that in the War of The Best. The only reason he had trouble with Smoker before is because he couldn't "touch" him. As of right now is a different story. You shouldn't look down on Luffy like that, the only reason he's struggling right now is because Law told Luffy to capture Ceasar Clown, not beat him up. Law needs Ceasar Clown with his mind intact so he can operate that machine. If he wasn't holding back he would've been using Gear 3 and ended this arc a long time ago.

Are you certain about this? Smoker has always been Luffy's rival and we do not know how much stronger Smoker has gotten.
Just a side comment, Luffy failed to capture Caesar since he was not focused and didn't know Caesar's strength.

[ValorantX]

Admirals are not at the strength of the Four Emperors. It should be noted that Whitebeard completely crushed Akainu in a one on one fight. He took some damage to his face but didn't die, and meanwhile almost killed Akainu. And on top of that, he was weaker than he was at his prime while the admirals are all in their prime. Plus, he got stabbed by Squardo. Plus, Akainu we know is slightly stronger than Aokiji.

So yeah. the Four Emperors are definitely stronger than the admirals. They are definitely on another level. And Luffy is neither at the Four Emperor, nor at the Admiral level yet.

Whitebeard was the most powerful of the Four Emperors though (his crew rivaling Gold Roger's back in the days) so that's expected. That doesn't mean Four Emperors are necessarily stronger than Admiral level.

Also Akainu might have overpowered Aokiji in their duel because of how his Logia type had an advantage over Aokiji's rather than because of overall skill. There's a reason why Fleet Admiral Sengoku, whos is a very experienced Marine and fighter to make such decisions, gave his title to Aokiji.

Anyways it depends on the person, Vice Admiral Garp cornered and rivaled Gold Roger when he was the Pirate king several times (thus the Marine hero). Admiral and Four Emperors are just titles and power comparison fluctuates depending on the individual. Your definite claims are very suspicious.

Shichibukai can be thought of the same way. There are Shichibukai Luffy is stronger than and others he is weaker than. For all we know, Doflamingo might be the strongest Shichibukai, considering he has a strong Vice Admiral level pirate working for him. You are definitely underestimating the shichibukai. Mihawk used to fight evenly with Shanks, one of the four strongest pirates in the world. Mihawk probably is no longer even with Shanks, but he is definitely still a ridiculous power

Can't say this for absolute certainty but I have the strong opinion that Hawkeye is definitely the strongest Shichibukai, there are definetly points in the manga and anime when the other shichibukai spoke of their respect (and fear) of Mihawk and his strength. Also its Shanks that probably is no longer a match for Mihawk. Mihawk sought him off for duels all the time until Shanks lost one of his arms. Mihawk probably stopped dueling him because he made the judgment that it wouldn't be a fair match anymore.

Edited by Saphsin, 22 November 2012 - 09:38 PM.

[Drakezius]

Well, in any future chapter we may be exposed to new cannon that adds to the current history.
Plot twists abound in One Piece, and where we all were sure of one thing or another in the past,
we were eventually surprised when something different or unexpected happened.

Mentioned before, Luffy has the ability to effectively +1 his opponents through the help of his nakame.

While his strength may be more or less than any other Devil Fruit user at any one point or another,
eventually he and his crew will overcome thier predicament and soldier on to victory.

[MGIBBS]

In any story if the main character is overwhelmingly strong and wins every fight. The readers will lose interest once the uniqueness of the story is no longer refreshing as the outcome is a foregone conclusion. That is why in noblesse Rai has the severe handy cap of damaging his body if he uses his power and why he is the last to fight if ever.

In one piece to keep people interested Luffy has been getting steadily stronger. So that his strength is about slightly better than average for his environment. This way the author can have the readers in suspense when Luffy is losing a fight at the beginning and to come up with a new attack to win at the end. Luffy has had few fights he can win hands down. Luffy has picked a fight with one of the four emperors if they had not been blown of course Luffy would have failed. Since he has been blown of course Luffy and his crew have more time to prepare for this new enemy.

I would place Luffy's current strength above Ace's since I never saw him use Haki. I would say he is not yet ready to face an admiral. he might be able to go a few rounds but won't win the fight.