17 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

For someone who's trained so hard, especially with her arms, and become so strong, they draw her with these really skinny arms that lack any kind of muscle tone. This is particularly striking when she is next to the male boxer.

My guess, and I am sure this is the case, the author/artist wants Jane to be beautiful, and some people think real muscles on a women is ugly.

Anyone able and willing to drop a dime to the artists to tell him/her that she should be drawn with some muscles?

[Guo-Jia]

Well, I'm not any kind of expert, but I think matters are a bit different with girls than with boys... I've had a female friend who was a kick-boxing medalist, and I never would have realised that she even did the sport, had she not told me... Besides, Jane is not that strong, I think the story hints at that.

Also, if you look at female athletes in general, in olympic games for example, its not that clear that they are strong and muscular, at least not compared to male athletes.

[Grumpy]

Just be happy she still got boobs...

[semperspes]

~_~ mary sue...

[mfkevinking]

Boobs... right. I think that she looks fine as a boxer, but muscle tone does show up for girls who are insanely serious about working out. Check out Cross-Fit chicks.

[truepurple]

Just a sampling of the many google images I got from "professional woman boxer", most all of them are like that and the few that aren't are probably not pictures of professional boxers, since google isn't perfect after all.
http://mmajunkie.com/dyn/images/fighters/chevelle-hallback.jpg
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00490/Boxer2_384_490833a.jpg
http://www.southasiafair.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/mary-kom1.jpg
http://www.womenboxing.com/biog/display/555skovaardvinn3.jpg

http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/27/2749/I91TD00Z/posters/young-women-exercising-in-an-aerobics-class.jpg

You can't have arms that skinny and lacking in muscle tone like Jane is shown, and be very strong. Its not like womens muscles are magically able to remain tiny and formless/soft yet do alot more. Muscles are muscles, whether on men or women and function the same way on both.

Think of what it would look like if they put how Janes arms are drawn, on the male pro boxer.

[semperspes]

really, the fact that jae-in seems to have no muscle, makes no impact on the plot itself and is a rather trivial point.

Nevertheless, it could be argued that she never overtly flexes for us, and so we never see the definition of her muscles.

[truepurple]

It's a glaring inconsistency from my PoV. Never flexes you say, she's thrown punches and we have seen her arms at that time, kinda hard throw a punch without flexing alot of muscles.  Anyway, her arms are skinny, really skinny. Muscles take up space and make your arms etc thicker.

[Sensei~]

Nevertheless, it could be argued that she never overtly flexes for us, and so we never see the definition of her muscles.

Never flexes you say, she's thrown punches and we have seen her arms at that time, kinda hard throw a punch without flexing alot of muscles.  Anyway, her arms are skinny, really skinny. Muscles take up space and make your arms etc thicker.

haha he sure told you, dingo~

[mfkevinking]

Agreed, however no one likes to look at Hilary Swank because when she did Million Dollar Baby she looked like a dude. That's not romantic at all.

[truepurple]

Whether or not you find a women with alot of muscle good looking or not, (and so what if you don't? Realism should trumph your ideal [or anyones] of sex appeal) Most people seem to agree that women with moderate amounts of muscle look sexy too. It's virtually a stereotype of the sexy women jogger that has everyone panting after her. (not familiar with the movie you speak of)

On a different subject but with some similarity, if she wants to lose some weight, she should cut her hair short (maybe even buzz cut short) and stand on the scale in a bikini, it adds up, and we are talking about a small amount of weight in the first place. Plus long hair could only serve to hold her back in a real match.

The whole system of weight classes seems silly to me BTW and cause absurd situations like that in the latest chapter.  Maybe instead, a rule where fighters must be within so many pounds of each other or something. I am sure there are other ways that it could be done too that I'm not thinking of.

I hope the opening scene at the beginning of this series isn't a indication that Janes role is more love interest and less, serious protagonist.

Of course boxing in general is a pretty bad practice, unless your a league above anyone else you fight, your constantly at risk of brain damage, face damage, loss of teeth etc.  Maybe if there was a rule of no hitting below the belt, or above the shoulders, but then of course that would make knocking someone out nearly impossible and matches would take longer.

[mfkevinking]

Eh, but remember that realism is only one facet of art. Not all art is realistic, look at Van Gogh, Picasso, or Salvador Dali... Bending rules to conform to your own agenda is the author's prerogative and not ours. We may complain and hold our own opinions but saying an absolute like:

Whether or not you find a women with alot[sic] of muscle good looking or not, (and so what if you don't? Realism should trumph[sic] your ideal [or anyones] of sex appeal)

is unwarranted. Consider word usage (must & should = very strong language when holding an opinion) and owner's prerogative. That's all .

I was being facetious with my comment on Hilary Swank... kind of, anyways... My opinion is that girls who dedicate themselves that much to fitness lose a bit of their femininity and are thus unattractive to me as a sexual partner/ potential mate. Not saying all girls in good shape are like that, but when their body fat ratio is lower than mine... there is something awkward about that lol.

[truepurple]

It's not art in that sense though, but pictures meant to tell a story. The more believable the story, the better we can get into it. I have even read game reviews that show such is appreciated even in video games, the less there is to remind you of it just being a game, the better (of course it depends on the game and the person) This applies alot more to picture stories.

Or put another way, you seriously think most people would read the story if the characters were drawn like say this? Realism matters even in fantastical comics, and this one isn't isn't the slightest bit fantastic except for details like this.

[Haruki]

is this discussion really neccesary ~_~

[truepurple]

Is this website really "necessary"? Is a good meal really  "necessary"? It's all subjective. Haruki, what's your issue that you speak like this?

[mfkevinking]

It's all subjective. Haruki, what's your issue that you speak like this?

There will be no ad hominem attacks on people truepurple. I will not abide that.

Realism is not the only art. Conside all of the fantastical video games featuring characters that are intentionally drawn unrealistically. These games: Kingdom Hearts, Katamari Damacy, ?kami, and many others. Some are based off of a realistic standpoint: Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, Call of Duty... This doesn't mean that any of them is not a work of art. This extends to manga/manhwa which is a work of art, a 2d motionless image; it is the intellectual construction of an individual.

[truepurple]

I was "attacked" (your definition anyway) once by haruki for no reason, now you attack me too when I object?(your labeling my objection a "ad hominum attack" is pure BS) You guys say I am welcome, but attacking guests does not feel welcoming. If you don't want me here, and really speak for the community, just say so.(but I was invited to join the staff, so I am dubious) But I won't abide people slandering me or saying unnecessary things about whether my topics are "necessary" (my point still remains, nothing on this website is necessary. So taking about necessity is irrelevant and just causing unnecessary trouble)

Realism is not the only art. Conside all of the fantastical video games featuring characters that are intentionally drawn unrealistically. These games: Kingdom Hearts, Katamari Damacy, ?kami, and many others. Some are based off of a realistic standpoint: Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, Call of Duty... This doesn't mean that any of them is not a work of art. This extends to manga/manhwa which is a work of art, a 2d motionless image; it is the intellectual construction of an individual.

As I mentioned before, video games are the far reaches of this issue, since the most important part of a video game is the gameplay (of course this partially depends on who you ask) Just like the most important part of a comic (for most people) is the story (unless a comedy) which is greatly aided by pictures that reflect what the story is trying to say.

So talking about whether it is art or not is semantics.  And by comparing picasso etc. to comic depictions is comparing apples to lettuce.(and I don't mean in a quality kind of way) The point of the whole thing is much different, if you can't see that, then you are blind to the whole issue and I doubt there is anything I can say to reach you.

P.S. I thought to rework the wording of the first part of this post as I am not sure I was precise enough with all my words and the 'tone' might be a bit too aggressive. But I am pissed and busy, so I won't bother.

[Grumpy]

Yes, we get it. truepurle does not like poor realism.

And clearly explanations are doing nothing but flaming here. So locked.

ps. I realize the staff can still post as they're mods. So, I'm saying it now.
DON'T.