29 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

I think he will eventually meet up with his night raider comrades and they will forceably convince him to stay under cover to get the scissors, and then it will be to get other information.

Eventually Tatsumi will have two identities, one with incurso and one with the scissors (of course he can use the scissors, remember how it was said it was how you viewed tangus/initial impression that matters the most, and he really cared for its former user) as he switches back and forth for awhile struggling with his strange dual identity.

[ZeusThe10]

I think he will eventually meet up with his night raider comrades and they will forceably convince him to stay under cover to get the scissors, and then it will be to get other information.

Eventually Tatsumi will have two identities, one with incurso and one with the scissors (of course he can use the scissors, remember how it was said it was how you viewed tangus/initial impression that matters the most, and he really cared for its former user) as he switches back and forth for awhile struggling with his strange dual identity.

I like it you're a smart person aren't you

[qber]

Or maybe chapter 19

Too bad really, it'd have been interesting >_>

[truepurple]

qber, you talk as though recent chapter releases make this longer a possibility, seems like it could still be possible, though does seem less likely now.

[truepurple]

Tatsumi and company could fight them till a partial or full draw. If a partial draw, it will be in the imperial bad guys favor (partial draw seems more likely) Then they find Tatasumi (accidently or a intentional setup, probably intentional as a way to recover from their partial loss/to allow a team mate to escape, to spy, etc.) without evidence of him being part of Night Raid, he gives them a story about chasing down a Night Raid member and trying to fight independantly or perhaps targeted by a Night Raid , and they think he is still on their side and force him back. The evil doctor guy will suspect him, and maybe Tatasumis alter ego wave too. but not saying anything.(instead try to find proof latter on)

So now that I think about it, more recent developments make my original prediction even more likely, with just the alteration that he is going to spend much more time appearing to be on the imperial teams side, while occassionally sneaking out to do missions with his armor for Night Raid .

Edited by truepurple, 18 June 2012 - 11:29 AM.

[kayle101]

dam i like the way you think
just because i'm simply hoping for esdese x tatsumi love to occur
Also oringinal for tatsumi to retrieve the gaint scissors back

[truepurple]

Come now, that "coupling" is most likely never going to happen IMO. It might even be possible she switches sides in the future when a yet more evil or threatening enemy/situation appears, but even if that does happen, I bet its always going to be a one sides love affair used for kinky giggles, well perhaps Tasumi will soften on her, but never real romance I think , and I can't imagine him being able to get over entirely how she is responsible for so much death, including his friends at Night raid. Especially as they have already established possible love connections between the other female members of Night raid, except for the boss. Also, I have not seen a two sided romance in this comic yet, it clearly has been avoiding such.

Edited by truepurple, 22 June 2012 - 12:36 AM.

[God of TROLLing LOL]

...Go read the other spoiler topic.

dam i like the way you think
just because i'm simply hoping for esdese x tatsumi love to occur
Also oringinal for tatsumi to retrieve the gaint scissors back

Nice, your hope is true and official now.
The retrieve the scissors is a huge success. Those night raider cry like hell when see that scissor and said: welcome back schere-chan.

Come now, that "coupling" is most likely never going to happen IMO. It might even be possible she switches sides in the future when a yet more evil or threatening enemy/situation appears, but even if that does happen, I bet its always going to be a one sides love affair used for kinky giggles, well perhaps Tasumi will soften on her, but never real romance I think , and I can't imagine him being able to get over entirely how she is responsible for so much death, including his friends at Night raid. Especially as they have already established possible love connections between the other female members of Night raid, except for the boss. Also, I have not seen a two sided romance in this comic yet, it clearly has been avoiding such.

That coupling DID and ACTUALLY happened
Nice and Neat, they are the best couple ever!
Since you are an optimistic guy, go read http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/6412-spoiler-thread-talk-about-anything-up-to-latest-chapter-release-in-japan/page__view__findpost__p__228183

[truepurple]

Well I didn't want to spoil it for myself, but I did want to continue the conversation and was curious, I saw nothing in those raws (couldn't read the words of course) that showed them actually and certainly becoming a couple. I mean the level of intimacy shown there does not exceed that shown in other chapters with other female Night raiders.

Edited by truepurple, 22 June 2012 - 11:32 AM.

[soranokira]

does not exceed...? hmm did you try reading chapter 26, with my substandard translations that can at least give you an idea of what is happening?
but yeah, most of the predictions are out if you guys read the spoiler thread. But this just goes to show how the author avoided coming up with overly easily predictable things.

[truepurple]

I don't actually want to spoil it for myself, you know. So no, I don't want to read some quasi translation of future chapters, looking through the one chapter from that thread I was linked to, with just the pictures to tell me of any possible relationship, was enough.(and I skipped through it a bit)

Part of why I did that was also because I really really hate the idea of Esdese and Tatsumi as a couple. Edese is scum who's brutally murdered a great multitude of people, and left others alive so she would some excuse to do even more such in the future(people left alive so they could keep the spark of rebellion going). She tortures people for fun, and at great extremes. She has the insane philosophy that the weak should die at the hands of the strong, for being weak, which is even crazier considering she considers the weak as anyone weaker then who is ever doing the killing, and considering she is one of the strongest people around, her philosophy gives her carteblanche excuse to kill almost anyone.(and anyone left who can match her strength is covered by her self excuse that anyone who opposes her deserves to die) The only way I could see them making her more villain-ish, is if she was one of those destroy the world types that just attacked everything they came across aside from a few comrades. Obviously Tatsumi is radically different from her, which I suppose explains the yin/yang symbol on the ground when they were fighting together in that one chapter I viewed.

Even if they softened up her image somewhat with some flimsy and limited law and order line or something (which wouldn't fly far with me, considering her disregard for any real law and order) a "things are not as they appear" bit (which is limited in how much they can realistically flip around with that) and/or had the character have a serious change of heart, still not enough. I mean she would have to go on some serious seeking redemption and totally switching sides for me to not want to wretch at the idea of them two becoming a serious couple, and even then I would not exactly like the idea. And my impression is that is not ever going to totally happen with her.

I would rather have seen Tatsumi end up with say Doctor Stylish(no I don't want to see that either, just demonstrating my hate of the concept), then Edese.

I think I will make a thread about this in the future of its own, after anything like that starts showing up in the scantilations.

Edited by truepurple, 24 June 2012 - 09:04 AM.

[God of TROLLing LOL]

I don't actually want to spoil it for myself, you know. So no, I don't want to read some quasi translation of future chapters, looking through the one chapter from that thread I was linked to, with just the pictures to tell me of any possible relationship, was enough.(and I skipped through it a bit)

Part of why I did that was also because I really really hate the idea of Esdese and Tatsumi as a couple. Edese is scum who's brutally murdered a great multitude of people, and left others alive so she would some excuse to do even more such in the future(people left alive so they could keep the spark of rebellion going). She tortures people for fun, and at great extremes. She has the insane philosophy that the weak should die at the hands of the strong, for being weak, which is even crazier considering she considers the weak as anyone weaker then who is ever doing the killing, and considering she is one of the strongest people around, her philosophy gives her carteblanche excuse to kill almost anyone.(and anyone left who can match her strength is covered by her self excuse that anyone who opposes her deserves to die) The only way I could see them making her more villain-ish, is if she was one of those destroy the world types that just attacked everything they came across aside from a few comrades. Obviously Tatsumi is radically different from her, which I suppose explains the yin/yang symbol on the ground when they were fighting together in that one chapter I viewed.

Even if they softened up her image somewhat with some flimsy and limited law and order line or something (which wouldn't fly far with me, considering her disregard for any real law and order) a "things are not as they appear" bit (which is limited in how much they can realistically flip around with that) and/or had the character have a serious change of heart, still not enough. I mean she would have to go on some serious seeking redemption and totally switching sides for me to not want to wretch at the idea of them two becoming a serious couple, and even then I would not exactly like the idea. And my impression is that is not ever going to totally happen with her.

I would rather have seen Tatsumi end up with say Doctor Stylish(no I don't want to see that either, just demonstrating my hate of the concept), then Edese.

I think I will make a thread about this in the future of its own, after anything like that starts showing up in the scantilations.

Then you are loco. done.
Just go and continue to read.
Wait and you will change your view.
She is not a mass murderer.
She is a human. (I believe she is a modified human)
I don't care what's your opinion is, just let Esdes and Tatsumi have a kid, then you can make it a harem is fine.
Go and WATCH Jormungand if you don't like it.

[sentry]

Yes, i can understand why people may hate the pairing tatsumi/esdese but in this manga nobody is really innocent they are killer, murderer and whatever you want the sole difference is the way they define justice:
-for tatsumi the king and his conselors are evil and we know why
-but i also considered the other camp point of view:they are justice because they are loyal to their king(even for samurai loyalty was considered to be the most important thing that's why they prefered to serve a bad master cause to be loyal was their pride)
And also, during conflict each people think that he is right so in fact all depend of the way you see it!

[uberpr0]

There is a saying that goes :

"History is written by the winners"

Evil or good? No, in a war/battle/world there is only one thing that actually matters:

The side that won, and the side that lost.

Those who were forgotten to oblivion cannot change the telling of their fates by those who remained...

[truepurple]

Please don't give me this morale relativism where the strongest decide what is good and evil, it's BS. The night raids kill people who exploit and kill people,(and most of the time, pretty extreme examples of such too) they save lives. "Legal" and "power", have nothing to do with its morality. They call themselves assassins, but they are at least as heroic, good, and cherishing of life as many a protagonist in many a comic.

Esdese kills for the joy of it and/or because she was ordered to. She also tortures to extreme degrees.

But are your saying latter on they say she's gotten bad press, she hasn't done many of the things they have said she has done?

But there are things they have showed us she has done. Including extreme torture that her job description does not call for most of the time. For example, that advice she gave them on how to more painfully boil people alive by doing it slower, that had nothing to do with "loyality to the king". And she has stated that someone stronger then someone else has a right to kill the weaker person, for being weaker, are you saying she was lying about her beliefs?

[omnipwnage]

Please don't give me this morale relativism where the strongest decide what is good and evil, it's BS. The night raids kill people who exploit and kill people,(and most of the time, pretty extreme examples of such too) they save lives. "Legal" and "power", have nothing to do with its morality. They call themselves assassins, but they are at least as heroic, good, and cherishing of life as many a protagonist in many a comic.

I stayed up a bit later than I should have last night, and ended up reading this series from start to current, and I must say that it's now one of my favorites. As such, I started reading through the posts, and now I'm here to point out some truths (not facts), at least objectively. The first thing I want to point out is that even though Night Raid is the protagonist group, they aren't heroes; They are anti-heroes. The main difference in what you're saying is that a hero saves everyone without exception, wherein an anti-hero is willing to kill for the greater good; glorified murderers.

As for moral relativism, what was your standpoint for the war in Afghanistan at the start, and then currently? Likewise, how long did it take for people to consider that the Crusades were a bad idea morally? History is written by the winner, and sometimes it takes decades or centuries for it to be viewed by others objectively. Moral relativism is as true now as it has been for a very long time.

Esdese kills for the joy of it and/or because she was ordered to. She also tortures to extreme degrees.

But are your saying latter on they say she's gotten bad press, she hasn't done many of the things they have said she has done?

But there are things they have showed us she has done. Including extreme torture that her job description does not call for most of the time. For example, that advice she gave them on how to more painfully boil people alive by doing it slower, that had nothing to do with "loyality to the king". And she has stated that someone stronger then someone else has a right to kill the weaker person, for being weaker, are you saying she was lying about her beliefs?

Honestly, I love the way the characters are portrayed as mostly broken individuals. Esdese finds enjoyment in being an extreme sadist, mutilating the weak and making the stronger people become her pets; It's like the author is mocking/ trolling us by making her fall in love and acting so moe. In this respect, who would like to explain the difference between her a Schere, seeing as how Schere had absolutely no qualms with murdering people whether it was for herself, or others, or as a hit? Or Akame, whom although feels sadness from the loss of a comrade, feels no sorrow for dismembering a mountain of people. The only big difference I've seen between the two sides is motivation, which even then sometimes becomes obscured.

The last question I think I'd ask, would be.. if Esdese was originally in Night Raid, and she was still there, would she be demonized in the same fashion?

[Beelz]

@omnipwnage To your last question Esdese would be seen as a comrade if she was apart of the night raid. The only difference between Esdese and the people in night raid are their motives... at the end of the day both Esdese and the night raid can be considered mass murderers and its their motives/beleifs that justify their slaughter and from the looks of things neither side has any second thoughts about killing their enemies. So if Esdese was in the night raid they would accept her aslong as her motives ran parallel to their own.

I might aswell add this but isn't theres a sayin... something like A man can kill for his country and become a hero and a man can kill in cold blood and become a murderer. I think it goes something like that. Anyway in both cases your still killing somebody but because in one case it was "justifyed" it becomes ok.

Edited by Beelz, 01 October 2012 - 06:26 AM.

[Fennec]

Actually, I think Night Raid isn't nearly as twisted as Esdese. Everyone has their own reason for killing (justice, vengeance, stopping corruption, ending discrimination, etc.—and this applies to both sides, mind you), but Esdese just has a whole power mentality. She enjoys killing and torture; no one in Night Raid would kill a civilian just to pass time, and she'd also give them slow, painful deaths so they'll feel the most pain humanly possible before death. In one of her first appearances, she was even suggesting to the torturers to lower the temperature of the boiling water so that the people wouldn't die so fast.

She's the most sadistic character in the manga so far. Based on many of the Night Raid members' pasts, they would rather kill her before accepting her.

[omnipwnage]

Actually, I think Night Raid isn't nearly as twisted as Esdese. Everyone has their own reason for killing (justice, vengeance, stopping corruption, ending discrimination, etc.—and this applies to both sides, mind you), but Esdese just has a whole power mentality. She enjoys killing and torture; no one in Night Raid would kill a civilian just to pass time, and she'd also give them slow, painful deaths so they'll feel the most pain humanly possible before death. In one of her first appearances, she was even suggesting to the torturers to lower the temperature of the boiling water so that the people wouldn't die so fast.

She's the most sadistic character in the manga so far. Based on many of the Night Raid members' pasts, they would rather kill her before accepting her.

Yes, I do agree that Esdese is sadistic. But the only one that enjoys killing? Schere was very good at killing people, and she saw nothing wrong with it. Something along the lines of... 'It's the only thing I've really been good at.' And she was happy to be able to be of use to Night Raid. And Leone is no stranger to the enjoyment of fighting.

And as far as the second statement is concerned, Tatsumi has tried to bring her over to Night Raid a few times. And even though there is a decent chunk of spite from the members towards her, the rebellion would still love to have her on their side; no one could argue that she could personally turn the tables on their revolution. And for people wanting to overturn the country, power is one of the few things they actually care about.

[Tsubaki P. Amane]

I'm new here but from my viewpoint that re reading for 10 time in almost 30 chapter Tatsumi has pattern of thinking like this
friend
after become night raid
1.This guy/gal is good person or they're justice let join them
government in his point of view
2.you/They bad guy they are enemy
after one of night raid dead (I not good at remembering character names)
3.They killed my friend I'll never forgive them
when he was spy in enemy headquarter
4.they not bad guy but still they killed my friend enemy still enemy
ya see not thing so hard to make tatsumi on your side if you know this pattern that mean tatsumi can be in any group that he called friend change so
long before you can 100% Prediction
PS. I'm thai that mean I'm not good at english forgive me if I'm wrong spelling or grammar