69 replies to this topic

[Miki]

I think that one piece is actually a small fragment or clue to an ancient treasure or weapon

[mbaruh]

An amazing theory I found:

http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=38205

[Anak]

what if one pieces has more metaphoric value. gold roger was like luffy and ace he wasnt really in it for the money. it was about the jurney.also the knowledge gain along the way probly has more worth. one piece could just be bait for adventurers.

Nah. Don't think so. Too predictable for Oda. And Whitebeard did say it would "throw the world in chaos". I doubt the metaphorical value of the journey would do that.

An amazing theory I found:
http://apforums.net/showthread.php?t=38205

OMG! *heaves* Mind blowing theory. I can accept that. Fuck, I never even thought of that one. Kudos to that guy I wanna give him a damn trophy.

Thanks for sharing, dude!

Edited by Anak, 21 September 2014 - 02:23 AM.

[Tullus]

The best theory I've ever come across about One Piece, both the treasure and the world of the comic, is this, posted in 2010 (last edit May, 2011) by Lillette in the One Manga forums.  I accessed it through the Way Back Machine and copied and pasted it below. Of course, because it's from the Way Back Machine, the links are all dead. Although a few minor details have turned out to be wrong, it's still the best theory I've seen, and I pretty much agree with it. Because it's so comprehensive, it's very long, but worth reading for the perspective it gives on the story.

 

Begin Quote:

 

[Theory] Origins of Ancient Kingdom, Tenryuubito, Grand Line, & Will of D (Part 3)

 

Previous Thread Here

 

 

This comprehensive treatise is a restructuring and expansion of my, liliette’s, original theory, as well as new discoveries (e.g., what Seastone is and information on the Ancient Weapons).

The following is what I cover:

1. Who the Ancient Kingdom is and where they come from.
2. Who the Tenryuubito are and where they come from.
3. What the flames of the Will of D. are.
4. What Devil Fruits are comprised of and why water is their natural enemy.
5. Pluton and Poseidon are not the only two Ancient Weapons. There is a third named Zeus, Jupiter, or some derivative thereof.
6. How the Ancient Weapon Poseidon created the Grand Line and Kairoseki (Seastone).
7. What has the Will of D. flame done to Luffy?
8. Why is Blackbeard different?
9. Symbolism of the Sun, Moon, & Darkness
10. A Hypothetical Story

This is long, granted, and parts may be scoffed at, but if you read till the end I may make a believer out of you.

1. About the Ancient Kingdom

The first oddity about the Ancient Kingdom (AK) is the fact that it’s called “ancient” though it was only destroyed 800 years ago. In the One Piece (OP) world where Dr. Kureha is 139-years-old, 800 years ago may have occurred some time ago, but not so long ago to be called ancient. The Ohara Tree of Omniscience was 5,000 years old. Now that seems ancient to me.

The next peculiarity concerning the AK is the fact that they were technologically advanced. Where did this machinery go? If they were simply defeated as Professor Clover surmised then that technology would still be somewhere. The victors should at the very least want access to said technology. If the AK was advanced enough to create weapons that could destroy the entire world 800 years ago, and their enemies were powerful enough to defeat them, then why are the Marines sailing on ships akin to mid-1800 ironclads today?

The Void Century (VC) is another abnormality. 100 years is enough period of time to erase any mention of a war of any sorts, who would have fought this war, and most traces of the AK. We know of 2 kingdoms in existence at this time who were allies to the AK—the Shandorians (later Shandians), who built the City of Gold 1,000 years ago, and Alabasta, who Robin “read” fake history about starting with conquering and building the country about 1200 years ago. Even if those who created the World Government (WG) had them erase all mention of the AK from their history books, how would the AK be erased from word of mouth after so many centuries of interaction? We’ve also seen flashbacks to how the Shandorians appeared 400 years ago and they were a superstitious, primitive tribe. They did fight a fierce war over their Poneglyph, but wouldn’t that have kept the AK on their tongues? And where is the technology that would have helped them defeat those who defeated the AK?

Spoiler:

This brings me to my first point on where this leads us to. I think the reason the AK was so technologically advanced is that they were originally from another planet. This has already happened before. The "Winged Moon People of Ancient Times” went to the “Blue Planet” because their resources were exhausted. They became the Shandians, Skypieans, and Bilkans. I believe other people also went to the Blue Planet seeking refuge; they created the AK. These people were technologically advanced and held, according to Dr. Clover, “great power”. If these people came from another planet, hence a whole other culture, they would indeed be ancient. Another indication of their transcendental roots is the era before the VC was called the Age of Heaven.

2. About the Tenryuubito

I think the “20 Kings” (20K) followed the same route the AK took to the Blue Planet. TheWannabe posted an opinion that he thought the void history was about the WG hiding the fact they were actually pirates. I find this interesting.

Spoiler:

To be more specific, I think that the Tenryuubito are descendents of Space Pirates (SPs). First, let’s look at the Tenryuubito (CDs). Look specifically at what Saint Roswald & Saint Shalulia are wearing. Next let’s glance at Saint Charloss’ attire, as well as the unnamed CD. It’s obvious they look like astronauts so I won’t draw that correlation. In fact, I want to take you away from it, though I could point out that Oda didn’t have to illustrate the CDs to look like they were equipped to fly into outer space. No, I want to steer you away from the bubbles around their heads and focus on their clothing. Specifically look at the gauges (clock-like pieces) on their suits. Now look at the SPs that Enel fought with on the moon here & here. I looked through everyone else’s clothing in all of OP, including nobles and even the inanimate objects that had been “fed” Devil's Fruits (DFs), but only the CDs and SPs have this similarity. The only thing that comes close is Kuma’s gauge in his arm when Zoro cuts it.

Next, let’s look at the literal translation of Tenryuubito—“Heavenly Dragon Folks”. FUNimation subs uses the name “Celestial Dragons” (hence my using CD(s) as an acronym for Tenryuubito.) The crest of the CDs is called the “hoof of the soaring dragon.” ‘Heavenly’, ‘celestial’, ‘soaring’—each of these words points us skyward. Even the name Gorousei means the Five Elder Stars, again the connotation of aerial—otherworldly. Though I think the Gorousei are just the keepers of the CD secret, and not actual descendents themselves, their name, nonetheless, has “unearthly” connotations. Also, I know the SP on 440’s cover looks fox-like, but I do not suppose him to be indicative of the only SPs in the universe, especially since we see an assortment of different creatures (including humanoid) on the cover of 445.

As Saint Shalulia shoots her slave she says, according to cnet’s translation, “a mere human such as yourself”, whereas Stephen translated it as, “He's just a petty HUMAN”. This is a strange thing to say, this human comment, unless it’s an indication that the CDs consider themselves as something other than human.
About the Poneglyphs

I think when the 20K came it is as Dr Clover said, the AK created the Poneglyphs to keep their history in the world. The officers from the WG found the Poneglyph unsettling, calling it a creepy stone (select page 3 when going to this chapter). Why? Because bombing it, shooting it—whatever—doesn’t destroy it and, quite frankly, that just isn’t normal.

Spoiler:

I think the reason the AK was able to write their history upon indestructible stones is simply their technology is out of OP’s world. Basically, OP’s AK is our mythical Atlantis—they were much further advanced than the rest of the nations around them, but their country was wiped off the planet. How could the AK create stones that can’t be destroyed unless their technology was out of the world? It’s why it’s so unsettling to the agents. That material doesn’t exist naturally in the OP world.

3. The Will of D.

I’m going to borrow the words of Shattered Hope here as I couldn’t have summed this up better myself.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShatteredHope

This has had many different interpretations by people. What WB said to BB proved that you can be a D and not have the Will. So what is the defining feature of the Will if it isn't simply being a D? It is that those who possess it yearn for freedom, and are ready to sacrifice their lives for it. This is proven by certain individuals:

- Ace said to Luffy before he first sailed that freedom drove him. This eventually cost him his life.
- Luffy told Rayleigh it was freedom he desired above all else.
- Roger said he desired freedom above all else to Leo.
- Jaguar D Saul exercised his freedom and paid for it with his life.
- Dragon the Revolutionary is the symbol of freedom.

That is the theme of this manga: freedom. Therefore, Luffy will go from adventurer to freedom-fighter. Note that WB did not have the Will because his primary interest was not freedom, it was family. BB's primary interest is power, like [Golden] Leo, and therefore does not have the Will of D.

We still do not know what the D. stands for, but for my purposes I will say the D. represents Descendents (keep in mind, I'm not claiming D. stands for Descendents, as it might stand for something else, but rather am using it for my purposes). So Blackbeard (BB) can be a Descendent, but not have inherited the Will. To understand why I feel the importance of descendents plays heavily in OP, you must understand the Japanese mindset. First, Shintoism stresses tradition, family, nature, physical cleanliness, and “Matsuri”, which is honoring & worshipping the Kami and ancestral spirits. The Kami are gods, spirits, or protectors of places or clans. Ancestors are deeply respected and venerated. Please verify my claims here, here, and here.

Eustass posted a theory about Luffy and reincarnation. Parts of it are really good, but some of his facts are off. For one, he claims Buddhism is the most popular religion in Japan, when in actuality it’s a combination of Shinto and Buddhist beliefs. (Feel free to check my claims here, here, and here.) Oda has repeatedly shown us various religious iconography (e.g., the CDs called Saints, Urouge’s crew are all different denominations of faith, the Ancient Weapons (AW) called Poseidon & Pluton after Greek & Roman gods, etc.) to indicate we shouldn’t nail ourselves along one belief system.

Before we go into the theory, we need to cover further the Eastern state of mind. Most who visit this forum are from the Western world. Though we know of reincarnation, I know it’s going to be as well received as the term “haki.” Haki, which is just simply understood and accepted in Oda-san's world, was (is) a point of contention and heated debate on many Western OP forums. It’s not an accepted “norm” in our society. Just like “heaven” is an easily identifiable concept in Western society (even for atheists), the idea of “reincarnation” is an easily identifiable concept in Eastern society. More specifically, the idea of “rebirth” is a common element in Japan and in all Buddhist cultures. Reincarnation is more of an Indian-Hindu concept, whereas rebirth is more of an Asian-Buddhist concept.

Spoiler:

The reason we Westerners cringe at the idea of Luffy being a reborn soul is that we’re born in “individualistic” societies. We believe we’re each beautiful, unique snowflakes. Please understand, however, that Eastern cultures are “cooperative” and “regenerative” societies. They believe that the snowflakes then melt, evaporate, and reform into more beautiful, unique snowflakes once again. So though each snowflake has its own unique pattern, its elements are recycled.

On BuddhaNet’s Fundamentals of Buddhism we’re told:

Quote:

You may have noticed that in Buddhism, we consistently speak of rebirth and not transmigration. This is because in Buddhism we do not believe in an abiding entity, in a substance that trans-migrates. … For example… when we light one candle from another candle, no substance travels from one to the other, and yet the first is the cause of the second.

Reincarnated souls are doomed to repeat the same mistakes over and over again; however, reborn souls are not. They learn from their prior experiences until they achieve enlightenment. If you’ve not achieved enlightenment, then you are reborn—the “consciousness arising in the new person is neither identical to, nor entirely different from, the old consciousness.”

Why did I spend all this time getting you comfortable with the idea of rebirth? Because I think it’s important in Oda's work. Look at this sentence from Wikipedia about Buddhism and rebirth.

Quote:

At the death of one personality, a new one comes into being, much as the flame of a dying candle can serve to light the flame of another.

Now let’s recall what Whitebeard said to Blackbeard as he was dying.

Quote:

Just as there are those who have inherited Roger’s will…Ace’s will too will someday be inherited by others…You may eradicate his bloodline, but “their” flames will never die…For many ages, they have been passed down through the generations without fail…!!

Shintoism stresses ancestor worship, which would explain the importance of the D. bloodline. The flames would come from the Buddhist aspect. Now imagine Oda taking ordinary concepts in his world and spinning them. He has the AK take their technology and do something monumental. He creates a genetic twist of fate, having the AK trap a certain group of flames to stay within a genetic bloodline that is labeled with D.

Will of D. Technology

I believe the AK used some sort advanced gene manipulation like genetic memory or genomic imprinting (if they didn’t touch the DNA) to trap their flames to their progeny. This shouldn’t be too surprising as we’ve already seen Oda tinkering with biology when people eat the Devil Fruits (DFs). DFs essentially rewrite a person’s DNA once devoured; Luffy becoming a rubber man is a case in point. The Gorousei are put out that the name D. has been “reaching the eyes of the people a tad too much as of late.” It seems the Gorousei want the D. name to remain hidden.

4. About Grand Line and Devil Fruits

While traveling in East Blue, Zoro, Coby, and the Marines were shocked when Luffy was shot & wasn’t hurt. The Marines called the DFs “ocean’s secret treasure.” Nami, who sailed across the East Blue stealing from pirates & working for pirates, thought DFs were a myth. Sanji, who worked on a restaurant ship that served pirates by the many didn’t know the basic fact that Luffy would drown once in the ocean. Captain Krieg told his pirates about DFs; they hadn’t heard of them before. He thought that’s what made Hawk-Eyes so strong. So even though these pirates spent a week on the Grand Line (GL) and were pirates in the East Blue, they still had to be instructed about the legend of DFs.

What does this tell us? They are only common in the GL; they are uncommon in the rest of the world. According to Oda there are more than 100 DFs. We’ve seen a fair share of them and we’ve only been in the 1st half of GL. The rest of the world just hears “rumors” of what’s in GL from people who actually make it out of there alive. Since it’s nicknamed “the pirates’ graveyard,” the number of people traveling to and from GL mustn’t be high. Obviously this is because GL as a place so dangerous, plus all the powerful people there. If there are only a little over 100 DFs, and the majority of the users are concentrated in the GL, it’s no wonder the world considers them a myth or a rumor. That is a very, very small number. It seems like a lot as we follow Luffy’s travels, but in actuality it’s a miniscule number. Even with Don Krieg pirates—he had 5,000 pirates when he went into GL—if they’d eaten all of the known DFs in the world, still only a little over 2% of his crew would have this ability. It’s just that rare.

Why is this important? I, like some others, think that the DFs were created by the AK as a means to fight against what would eventually become the WG. Kaku says about the DFs he and Kalifa are presented with, “It’s hard to believe these fruit come from this world….. I feel a strange power emanating from it, like a gravitational force.” Stephen translated Kaku as saying, “They look positively otherwordly... I feel some kind of mysterious ‘pull’ emanating from it.” This unearthly aspect illustrates that there’s something not quite right about these fruits. Their transcendental appeal aside, the reason seawater is their weakness allows us to understand what gives these DFs their powers and, if we follow this line of reasoning, to what Kairoseki (Seastone) is.

Spoiler:

I believe DFs are comprised of the souls from the AK’s dead. If they originated from souls of the AK it would also explain why each DF is unique. This isn’t necessarily a revolutionary idea, but what’s made me believe it with some certainty may sound new. The reason seawater, or water of any sort, is the DF’s natural weakness is that “water is as widespread an instrument of ritual purification (pg 1082).” The previous and following quotes I accessed from The Penguin Dictionary of Symbols that I own. The reason seawater is so important to Japan is that Izanagi—the mythological creator (Shintoists worship him as such) of the central and other islands of Japan by mixing salt with primeval waters (pg 82)—purified himself in seawater after returning from the Kingdom of the Dead (pg 83). “In Japan, salt is regarded as a powerful cleansing agent, especially in the form of sea-water.”

We’ve seen this purification process in effect before. Moria’s zombies were purified of their shadows by salt. According to SaltWorks-

Quote:

In Buddhist tradition, salt repels evil spirits. … Shinto religion also uses salt to purify an area. Before sumo wrestlers enter the ring for a match—which is actually an elaborate Shinto rite—a handful of salt is thrown into the center to drive off malevolent spirits.

I believe the AK used their advanced technology to create DFs to aid their progeny in the fight against those who created the WG. Why did they choose fruit as their means to aid those they left behind? A, they would be destroying all mechanical technology, but more on that later. B, fruit can grow naturally so they could still apply their advanced technology with real world application. Oda’s a storyteller and there’s a symbolic reason for fruit as well. Fruits, like pomegranates, are “a fertility symbol, it contains power of drawing souls down into the flesh (pg 767)” or like the apple tree itself is an “Otherworld tree.”

I think the term “devil” was given to the fruits because the 20K didn’t want people eating them and gaining these powers, or delving too deeply into what created them in them in the first place. We’ve seen the WG apply this term before to the scholars of Ohara (Oda going so far as to title chapter 394 that), calling them & Nico Robin (then 8-years-old) demons. Transplanted souls would also explain the origins for the folktales surrounding the DF mythos. Or Spandam’s comment, “As to what kind of devil’s reside in those fruit… even I am not aware of it.” Why would they even begin to think the abilities came from “devils” in the first place if there wasn’t something to be gleaned here? So the WG created the Sea Devil mythology. This leads me to the Ancient Weapons, which will take me to Kairoseki.

5. Ancient Weapons

The OP Wikia states the following about DFs, “Devil Fruits are said to be the fruits of the Sea Devil and that the secret to their power is hidden in the Grand Line.” For me to explain what I think that statement means, I have to sum up what’s going on with the AWs. Most think there are only 2 AWs and they are named Pluton and Poseidon. I think that’s incorrect. I think there is at least 1 more AW and its name is Zeus or Jupiter, or something along these lines.

Franky reflects on Iceberg saying, “These are the blueprints that the great shipbuilder Tom-san sacrificed everything to keep in existence. As long as the woman named Nico Robin is alive, and the danger of the 'weapons' being revived exists, The world needs those plans...As a balancing force!!”

Franky then says, “What Tom-san and Iceburg gaves their lives to protect was... In the case that those Ancient Weapons were to fall into the hands of an idiot like you, And you were to go on a rampage... Another weapon could be revived, To STOP your madness!! That is the 'wish of the designer'!!! If you use Nico Robin, sure, you can bring back the weapons!! She's dangerous! But she's got friends watching out for her!!! So I'm willing to make a 'bet'. If there's any way for me to respect the wish of the designer in these circumstances, then this is it.” So if the Ancient Weapons were discovered, located, used—whatever “fall into the hands” means—the designer of Pluton wanted them to be able to fight against whoever controlled any of these AWs. To that end the designer passed along the blueprints and they’ve been handed from shipwright to shipwright since then.

Spoiler:

There is a translation by Null that has the singular “weapon.” This version is on many sites. But Stephen’s translation, HimizujinEternia’s version, lolomaru’s French version, and even Miso’s German translation use the plural version “weapons.” So I contacted cnet to ask what his interpretation of this situation was—is it the singular or plural weapon? He stated the following:

Quote:

At any rate, there's nothing in the original Japanese to explicitly indicate whether it's intended as plural or singular. Franky's line about "The thing that has been passed down among the shipwrights of Water Seven for generations isn't 'how to make a weapon'!" is clear enough, since it's obviously referring to Pluton specifically (seeing as that's what the blueprints he's holding are for), but the two other lines on page 8 ("I know now that Robin isn't a demon trying to use the weapon(s) for evil, as the rumours say she is", and "as long as the danger exists of the woman Nico Robin reviving the existing weapon(s)") could be referring to one weapon, or to more than one. There's nothing to indicate either way.

If this was the only reason I believed there was a third AW (that some interpreted this exchange with the plural weapons) then I’d have stopped this line of reasoning, but it’s not. The main reason lies in the AWs’ names.

The primary reason I believe there is another weapon we’ve yet to hear of is that Oda chose these names specifically for them. Pluton is based off of Pluto, the Romanized version of the Greek god Hades. Then there is Poseidon. Hades and Poseidon were part of the trio godhead who, in the beginning after the defeat of the Titans, were all considered equal. They drew lots to see who would rule over what domain. Hades drew the Underworld, Poseidon the Sea, and Zeus the Sky- making him the ruler over all. Why would Oda choose to name the AWs after 2 of the trio if he wasn’t hinting that there was a third?

We know that Pluton was “the world’s worst battle ship,” but I believe it did more than float on water. Since Hades/Pluto ruled the Underworld I won’t be surprised that this AW will be able to go underwater. After all, we’ve seen other boats go underwater, such as Law’s submarine and those coated at the Sabaody Archipelago. Poseidon ruled the seas and was an earth shaker. Zeus ruled the skies, so I think the third AW will fly. This shouldn’t be surprising either. After all, we’ve seen Enel’s ship, Maxim, fly and we’ve seen the SPs’ ship.

6. Tying it all Together

I believe Poseidon (ruler of the Seas and an earth-shaker) is the object alluded to from the OP wikia statement, ““Devil Fruits are said to be the fruits of the Sea Devil and that the secret to their power is hidden in the Grand Line.” Let’s look at the word “Devil.” We’ve seen how the WG has named all that it considers its “enemy” a devil or demon, so I see this as an indication that the WG doesn’t have “control” over whatever it is that is creating the DFs. Next, throughout human history, devils/demons have been considered alongside, equal to, or slightly less than “gods.” (It’s the Judeo-Christian faith that’s made demons a solely negative word.) The Hindu Ashura, Buddhist Asura, and Islamic Jinn are examples. Change “fruits of the Sea Devil” to “fruits of the Sea God” and suddenly we have Poseidon. Follow that line of reasoning and we see that Poseidon is an AW that creates(d) DFs that did not belong to those who founded the WG, but to their enemies.

Spoiler:

It is my contention that the AK constructed Poseidon to do multiple things at once. I think its destructive force is so stupendous that it works much like an electromagnetic pulse (EMP). The AK detonates their weapon and BOOM! It wipes out all remaining people in the AK, but the design of this AW forces another genetic manipulation. It takes all the souls of the recently departed AK and links them to fruit that will continue to be regenerated whenever a DF user dies. Simultaneously it destroys all technology across the world. We’ve seen that the technology of those on the Moon seems more advanced than the technology on the Blue Planet (with the exception of what Dr. Vegapunk has been creating), which is mostly comprised of ships that aren’t very advanced (compared to the flying ships of the SPs), swords, flintlocks with round bullets, and cannons. Spaceys and space ships are more technologically savvy. I think this AW made all advanced equipment defunct, putting the world back to a less-sophisticated mode of living. (Shandorians are an example of this.) They also constructed the AW to “hide” their kingdom, Raftel, from sight, making it nearly impossible to reach so that the weapon is safe until one of their progeny with the Will of D. comes to fix the situation. (We’ve seen island hiding in the Skypiea arc, with half of Jaya blown up into the sky.) Even Crocus’ memories of Raftel are obscured.

There were unforeseen consequences to this weapon going off. So though GL already existed as it is land-wise, before this detonation it was as normal as the rest of the world. But because of the enormity of power behind this weapon the AK built, and the complex, amazing outcomes (DFs, wiping out all technology, and cocooning their kingdom from the future WG), GL goes ballistic. Energy must do something, go somewhere. The blast adversely affects the four fundamental interactions of nature (especially electromagnetism), forming the bizarre world of GL. It warps time, making one island ancient and another in the future. It generates insane weather conditions, etc. The AK unknowingly produced an adverse GL. This became yet another reason for the VC, to hide the fact that GL was not always as it is now.

It also created Kairoseki, or Seastone. (If the 20K defeated the AK, and the AK was an advanced nation, then where is all this technology? In short, the OP world does not equal what we’re learning about their past. The technology should still exist somewhere unless something happened to it. As I stated above, I consider the AK the reason there’s no advanced technology. But there would still be machinery left behind, even if it no longer works. I think the word Seastone is to throw us off so we don’t pay much attention to the fact that Kairoseki is comprised of metal.) I believe that some form of radiation from the blast compelled some type of inadvertent bonding of AK souls into this defunct and destroyed machinery. This is why when DF users have these cuffs placed on them they feel weak. The AW created an unexpected counter to the DF users. And the "certain sea" that Kairoseki is located at is All Blue. Jangness has an interesting theory about how Raftel, the Ancient Kingdom, and All Blue are connected.

It's my contention that Poseidon’s location must be on the shrouded Raftel, which is the “secret” to DF power and why it’s “hidden in the Grand Line.”

7. More on Will of D. Flames

I’ve shown how I believe the Will of D. is some form of genetic manipulation on the AK’s part. But what is the purpose for creating these flames to reoccur in the bloodline?

Spoiler:

I believe these flames are select members of the AK (most likely their leaders) reborn into the D. line. I think that Luffy is the reborn soul of Roger. (Eustass does a good job of brushing the broad strokes in the similarities between Roger and Luffy so I won’t go into more detail. If anyone demands links as proof, which he didn’t provide, I’ll be more than happy to provide them.) To stop the arguments now that Luffy is an original and not Roger, again, refer to the Japanese mindset. Understand that I think Luffy originated from the flame, but he is no longer the flame; he is himself. The flame is but one part of who he is; he's also the sum of his experiences in his own lifetime.

Roger was dying and knew he couldn’t do anything about what he’d learned about the True History. But that was okay; he had a plan and knowledge. The plan we already know—he turned himself in, made sure his son was cared for then announced to the world that One Piece was out there, but you’d have to find it in “that” place. He started the Golden Age of Pirates. We’ve assumed he did this to fight back against the WG. I think that is a solid assertion, but I feel there’s another reason he did it.

Yes, Roger wants someone to find OP. After all, his son was born and carries the Will of D. His son very well could make it to Raftel and OP. But I think Roger cried this out because he was leaving also himself this message. Why would the message include “’that’ place?” By not naming the “place” outright he was forcing pirates to search the world to rule out where his treasure could be hidden. That seems to be an important clue since the general consensus is now that OP is on Raftel. He could have really burned the WG by simply stating, “Go to Raftel” or “It’s on Grand Line.” It’s because the Poneglyphs are scattered across the whole wide world. Roger knew his reborn spirit would need to travel the world to see these Poneglyphs to figure out how to get to Raftel. Since Roger was dying, he knew he couldn’t fight. But he knew he would be reborn, hence Roger coming up with his plan. It may be why when Shanks heard Luffy scream one day he’d be the “King of the Pirates” as a child, he gave him his hat. It might be why Rayleigh wanted to meet Luffy. Or why Luffy looks so much like Roger in Rayleigh's memory. If the cycle of rebirth and the Will of D. was explained, they may suspect exactly who Luffy's flame came from. This would be the “lost history” Robin speaks of, when answering Gan Fall’s question if Roger's and Luffy’s D. as their middle initial is the reason why they’re so similar, she states, “Perhaps… or perhaps the connection between them is another ‘lost history’.”

8. So What about Blackbeard?

I don’t know if the part of Eustass’ theory that “BB original” was a traitor and caused the fall of the AK is true. Eustass is not the only person to believe there was a rift in the AK. I can believe a rift occurred as we’re seeing BB who has the D. name, but not the same desire as the other D.’s. What I find most likely is the there was at least one person (BB’s flame originator) who believed the AK shouldn’t sacrifice themselves to help bring about the eventual defeat of the 20K, but instead use the power they created to rule the world. It would be odd if everyone within a large kingdom agreed whole-heartedly with sacrificing themselves, like Roger did with Garp. I can easily envision someone like BB trying to, instead, gain control of Poseidon so that he conquer the entire world and force “peace” in that way. This would explain why BB has the name, but not the flame.

Spoiler:

I believe BB knows he’s an AK reborn spirit. It’s why when he yells in Mock Town, “A MAN’S DREAM WILL NEVER DIE” it seemed to hold an even heavier message than what we understood. It’s because BB already knows that this dream—to overthrow the WG and take control—has been passed along for generations. It may also be why there was an instant disliking between Luffy and BB as they sat next to each other eating pie and drinking soda. 800 years ago they may have despised each other and their original consciousnesses have lingering impressions. This is why BB is willing to leave things up to fate. And why his Jolly Roger signifies the Past, Present, and Future.

Though we don’t approve of BB’s methods, the instinct is in there to fight the WG. It’s in every D. we’ve met, even those who work for the WG. Saul eventually left and was killed by the WG. Garp refuses to go beyond Vice-Admiral and disobeys orders, doing as he wants. The instinct is there even when they don’t want it to be. And possibly the reason Rayleigh says Robin may not agree with their decision is that Roger decided to, once again, let another generation fight the fight since he wasn't healthy enough to do so. Luffy, however, will not let another generation fight it. He will not let this pass on. Because he’s still a big enough fool to not care about the consequences and would find it cowardly to hand his flame to the next generation.

9. Sun, Moon, and Darkness Symbology

I’ve made the connection to the Moon and the WG by the SPs visiting there. zetruz was kind enough to point out to me there was also a lot of Sun symbology being used in case I wanted to use it (I do!) There’s a Sun on the front of Shank’s ship. The Straw Hats sail on the Thousand Sunny. zetruz stated, “It seems to me as if the World Government represents the moon, ie darkness (of the night). Pirates, on the other hand (and Shanks/Luffy in particular) represent light, and stars (hence why Shanks/Luffy represent the sun, our brightest star).” He also likened Dragon to bringing light to the world, though Dragon’s use of ravens as messengers links him directly to Sun symbology. Ravens are considered messengers of the gods. “Thus most beliefs surrounding the raven depict the bird as a solar hero and often as a Demiurge or messenger of the gods. The bird is in any case a guide, and even guides souls on their last journey since, as a conductor of souls, his keen sight pierces the darkness and he is not led astray.”

I think zetruz is onto something, but the symbology of the moon needs to be tweaked. Because to me BB is darkness since he states it outright. Also, the Moon reflects the Sun’s light which to me is beautiful metaphor for what I see the WG doing at this time. The WG seems a pale manifestation of the justice we see Luffy or Dragon performing. So I investigated the symbolism of the Sun, Moon, and Darkness.

Why would Oda use the Sun? First, “sunlight is an emanation of celestial power, human hopes and fears. … Sunlight is human salvation (pg 603).” “In another way, the cycle of the Sun symbolizes the alteration of life, death, and rebirth… The Sun is thus regarded as a symbol of resurrection and immortality (pg 946).” (The Sun represents Vishnu, the Buddha, and Christ.) The Rising Sun is Japan’s national emblem. Next we’re lead back to Izanagi, the creator of Japan’s main islands. Izanagi’s right eye is the Moon and his left is the Sun. “This correspondence between the eyes lead to one another: the left eye to the future and the right eye to the past (pg 947)”. “Furthermore, the journey which the liberated being undertakes … may either be directed towards the Sphere of the Sun, that is, along the Path of Gods… or towards the Sphere of the Moon (along the Path of Ancestors): in the first instance, to escape from the cosmos and, in the second, to re-enter the cycle of rebirth (pg 948).” Like Fisher Tiger did with the slaves he freed, taking the CD brand (Hoof of the Soaring Dragon) and restructuring it to look like a sun, thus turning them into the Sunny Pirates, so too will the rest of the Blue Planet be set free once they follow the Sun.

Spoiler:

I believe Oda is showing that following the Moon (the CDs and WG) will keep the world following the Path of the Ancestors—the D.s will continually be reborn until they can conquer this enemy. Following the Sun, however, allows the D.s to finally escape their cycle of rebirth as it’s the Path of Gods.

“Darkness is correspondingly a symbol of evil, misfortune, punishment, damnation and death (pg 604).” This is the path BB represents. BB even announces to Ace, “Zehahaha!! The Sun or the darkness? Only one will win!!!” Thankfully, as far as symbology goes, “light pierces and scatters the darkness (pg 604).”

10. A Hypothetical Story

I’m not Oda so I cannot pretend to know the exact direction his story will take. Nonetheless, after I posted my original theory people would ask what reasonable explanation I could see for the AK losing. As I was developing my theory further for this second incarnation, friends I bounced my thoughts off of still asked my opinion on how I thought things played out. Because I think that for most people in order for a theory to be plausible there must a viable story, here’s the story I envisioned.

Spoiler:

Long ago the AK settled on the Blue Planet. I do not know if they were running away from persecution or were nomadic in nature—this is not my story. They befriended the Shandorians along the way, probably while they still resided on the Moon. There were already some people on the Blue Planet, like Fish and Mere People. But the fact that there is such a difference in types and sizes of people in the OP world makes me think that the AK was not the only group that came from another planet, just that the AK was the most advanced. We’ve seen that regular-sized plants and the South Birds on Jaya grew to enormous sizes once in Skypiea’s atmosphere. Different otherworldly beginnings would explain this disparity in individuals on the Blue Planet. Then came the 20K, they were an invading force of SPs. They allied themselves with some of the other kingdoms who were always jealous of the AK’s technology and status.

I suspect these original SPs were not unlike the SPs that pillaged the Moon. The SPs stripped the Moon of its resources so it’s not hard to imagine this is what was intended to happen to the Blue Planet. (Why do I believe the Moon was stripped of their resources instead of simply having run out? Because the three races of the Winged Moon People created an army of Spaceys. There would be no need for an army unless there was someone they needed to fight against.) But the AK stepped in, refusing to allow their Blue Planet to be stripped. Fights ensued. The SP technology was well-matched to the AK’s and threatened to destroy the planet. The SPs could care less; they could simply leave. But the AK cared about the world and the future of their children. So they implanted the Will of D. into their progeny & scattered them. They dotted Poneglyphs throughout the world explaining what truly happened because they knew if they weren’t around, the SPs would make their own “history.” (Sort of reminds me of Doflamingo’s famous speech.) They also created a weapon (like an EMP) that would simultaneously destroy all technology in the world—theirs, the SPs, etc.—and force another genetic manipulation—fruits infused w/ their souls—and their island, Raftel, is hidden from view at the impact of the blast. It wiped out all technology on the planet, literally grounding the SPs. But there were unforeseen side-effects from the AK blast. A, GL goes ballistic. The after-effects on the four fundamental interactions of nature from this blast create the bizarre world of GL. B, It creates Kairoseki from the metals of their old technology that are radiated from the blast. Since the DFs are infused w/ their souls, essentially the Seastone is as well which is why DF abilities are negated.

With their space ship’s abilities voided, the SPs form the WG to hide their past now that they are doomed to stay on the Blue Planet. They set themselves up to be rulers supreme, most likely blackmailing the original Gorousei with some c0ck and bull story about how they still have their ship which they could unleash its otherworldly power on the Blue Planet at any time, the Gorousei not knowing it’s now defunct. The VC is created to hide the CDs unsavory origins, the war, the AK in general, and the changes to GL. And the Rio Poneglyph on Raftel will explain this all along with One Piece.

I’ll end this with a quote by Doflamingo, "Pirates are evil!!? The Marines are righteous!!? These terms have always changed throughout the course of history...!!!" What if Doflamingo is thinking specifically of the True History and this is why he finds the world so entertaining?

By liliette

Special thanks to-

Spoiler:

I’d like to thank the following for either helping me out directly through conversation or indirectly simply by their great ideas: Yankee, Dbla, zetruz, cnet, Labeled Addikt, SkyLx, Jangness, redbeer, Eustass, Christopher, ShatteredHope, LokiT, Cooler, and TheWannabe.

FYI: Everything in this font and underlined are links to manga pages, One Piece Wikia, or other sites for points of reference.

__________________

"Pirates could happen to anyone." ~Tom Stoppard

 

Last edited by liliette; 05-19-2011 at 06:46 AM. Reason: Had to redo manga URLs since the site I had linked to went private.

 

End Quote.

 

Well, I know it's a bit long. Sorry about that.

Edited by Tullus, 23 October 2014 - 05:09 AM.

[jrusse18]

One piece is a better straw hat.

[TaruBoss]

i believe its the devil fruit three since the beginning.

with that under your control, you can literally buy all the world and destroy all your enemies (lol, with "shamble" you can made all the devil users eat another fruit, instant kill.) (sftbe)

[I'mFromTheFuture]

One Piece: is an ancient plan to unite all the seas into one ocean. It was created by the Ancient Kingdom 900 years ago and is detailed on the Poneglyphs; the 'Ancient Weapons' are means for carrying out this plan; i.e, to destroy Reverse Mountain and Mariejois; the two points where all 4 seas meet. (Noah was built by king of the Ancient Kingdom, Joy Boy, to evacuate Fish Man Island so the FishMen would not be destroyed along with Mariejois). 900 years ago twenty kingdoms waged war against the Ancient Kingdom in a revolt against this plan, and the Ancient Kingdom lost. The Twenty Kingdoms united to form 'The World Government' and have ruled ever since - the plan to create the legendary sea 'One Piece' or 'All Blue' as other rumours would call it, were erased from history, and hence the 'Void Century' now exists. Gol D. Roger learnt this truth from the poneglyphs, and sought to carry out the inherited will of the Ancient Kingdom, or 'The Will of D'. However, he caught a debilitating disease and could not complete the plan. To pass on his will, he started 'The Golden Era of Pirates' in the hope that a worthy successor would take his place and fulfill the will of the Ancient Kingdom to unite the seas and in doing so, defeat the World Government.One piece will also create all blue (uniting all seas; north south east west blues) but breaking of the reverse mountain consequently also results in demolition of fishmen island so luffy will get one piece but is also seen as destroyer of fishmen island (as predicted by Sharley)

 

~That One Guy From 2023

[TwentyFifthTasty]

that's actually pretty good prediction

[Sociopath Espher]

A one piece bikibi

[iORcHiD]

It's the gift and joy of adventure

Never thought that way, but yeah it seems something like that.