4 replies to this topic

[Gyresxj]

Hello guys, i have found out one thing which is kinda obvious if you look into it.

When elders accepted new elder in the council he became elder 13th.
What we can assume from that?

Now look the 4th elder is Kravei. He betrayed Rai 900 years ago or so which resulted in Rai go hybernation by unknown conditions.

The organization exists for more than 500 years.

Logically, 1-3rd elders are for sure some ancient powerful nobles. And probably other elders to number 10 are quite special too.

Thats why they said something like elders 12 and 13 are just formal, they are not the real elders, as they dont live to that status.

Edited by Evgeny, 08 June 2012 - 02:20 PM.

[43rdFloorGuardian]

Well at this stage we do not know how they are assigned their order - for example Cromwell did not become the 12th from his current 13th after the previous 12th died. It may not strictly be based on chronological order of their acceptance into the 'elders' and it may not even require a sequential ordering of their members - we just do not know at this stage.

Edited by 43rdFloorGuardian, 09 June 2012 - 03:34 AM.

[theonly]

Logically, 1-3rd elders are for sure some ancient powerful nobles.

Yeah...no...not really.

It's not logically at all. You're just assuming that higher number=more powerfull.

The thing is that we have no proof of the number is relevant in any way whatsoever.
It's possible that they assign the numbers based on the field the elders are aktive in (like department head) elder 1= founder elder 12=millitary etc.
or
it's possible that it's bades on power like in HSDK (and many other Shounen mangas).

However: up to this point we have no proof at all.

[Thanos]

Mmmm, in my opinion individual's strength is not an issue (some elders are clearly researchers which suggests that battle power is not the only attribute elders can prove themselves with), but up to this point, we have been suggested only one thing, and that is: younger the elder (the time he's been an elder), higher the number... If the elders truly are more or less on equal grounds (I get the feeling that every time elder dies, the rest of them will claim that he/she was weaker and less important... it's the bad guys' hierarchy pattern excuse), which would suggest sort of democratic approach, then the numbers themselves bear no meaning other than to signify how long they have been affiliated with the Union... Which also suggests that Roctis didn't create Union to "hide" himself, but merely used already existing organization for that purpose...

It is of course possible that numbers do bear some deeper meaning which has yet to be revealed... Like each number or range designating function or specialization, or it can even signify some form of hierarchy... It can also be that any elder with number 10+ is just a "trial" elder, which is not exactly recognized as an full-fledged elder but can become one should seat corresponding to his skill/results/something open up... There are countless options there... but I'm sure we'll know more in time. =)

[MGIBBS]

The 13th elder said that its good 12 elder died so that he could get a seat and not just a contrived one, or at least something to that effect. To me that suggests that the elders might have special positions within the elders like CEO, CFO, President, chairman etc positions that exist in a company there would be 12 or less of these positions. Given how 1st elder sounds more important than 2nd elder and that 13th elder didn't become new 12th elder to my knowledge. It is highly likely that you get a number when you join and that becomes yours alone there can never be another 12th elder for example but the 13th elder can assume his board duties e.g. take minutes of meetings.

In volume 3 I got the impression that the Union/altered humans had had some role to play In the death of the Seira's father. This suggests to me that the 4th Elder might well have been a founding member of union with elders 1-3 also being nobles that betrayed the Lord. Rai was ganged up on 900 years ago since individually he was the stronger but collectively at a disadvantage. Their betrayal occurred 400 years later at the changing of the lord as this was a time of great confusion. In those 400 years it is very likely that they could set up a secure hiding place.