1291 replies to this topic

[Raika]

Canceled D:
NOOOO
I thought... NOOOO
u ruined my day......
I need to make sure!

[Katzilla]

Haha, well the TYPEMOON wiki at least says it's canceled. But who knows.

[「黑風影」]

ok... caught up with the lancer bit...
I think Lancer-z will win over lancer-sn, since taking all the other things into account, the only way to measure their strength is for them to test it out, and we can take someone they both fought, and use it to compare the lancers.
Also to take into consideration, Lancer-Z never actually used his full strength, since due to his nature, and his code. Also he never had a real needing for the grail, instead he was looking for someone for him to be loyal to. So, what I think, is that he did not really go all out, and when he might have gone all out with saber, he was cut short.
So, both lancers fought with the same saber, so I think it is safe to use saber for to compare them. Lancer-Z did more harmful damage to saber, and even saber thought he was hard to land a hit on. Lancer-z even got her left hand. by looking at that, Lancer-z had a good chance of winning over saber. As for Lancer-sn, he did not pose much danger, accept for his Gae thingy, which was block by saber at least once I think. So I would think that Lancer-z would win over lancer-sn.
oh and did any of you see the new Fate game? the one with Frankenstein and all those new people.

Welcome Raika =D
You make a good point, in terms of fight against Saber. Lancer(F/Z) clearly had the upper hand, due to the nature of his noble phantasms and very effective on Saber's magical armor.
I do want to point out that both Lancer were not going full out in both fights against Saber due to master's command. Lancer (F/SN); was only command to gather information on the Servants and Master, and was order to retreat by his master command (Kotomine) . Lancer (F/SN) somewhat full out mode was unleashed once during the fight against Archer in F/UBW route. Even then, it was only to stall.

If I remember properly, Lancer (F/SN) did nick Saber and pierce through her armor on her shoulder, since his Gae Bolg is a curse spear as well. The damage that Lancer caused was more immenent, when Saber fought with Beserker right afterwards. The more possable reason as to how Saber blocked Lancer (F/SN) attack, its becuase Lancer gave enough time for her to prepare (activating his noble phantasm by calling its name, change of stance.). Saber also had a sightly higher luck and instinct thus able to block his attack once.
For Lancer (F/Z), Saber did not expect his noble phantasm abilites to be passive, thus she made a mistake by judging not dodging Lancer (F/Z) attack and thinking her magical armor should be able to handle it.

Lancer(F/SN)against Lancer(F/Z) would become a different story since both doesn't require the aid of magic much. As I explained in my earlier posts.


I've heard about Fate/Apocrypha but I haven't looked into it... I was depressed on how I don't have the console to play Fate/ Unlimited Codes.

Edited by 「豆釘 ~ 黑風影」, 04 May 2012 - 04:10 PM.

[MezzoParody]

Yeah, I was thinking about that too, Raika. I feel like we got to see F/SN's Lancer's abilities much better than we go to see F/Z's. But Kuro also makes a good point, in that neither of them ever really used their full strength...

But just from what we've seen in their fights with Saber, I do feel like F/Z's Lancer might have the upper hand. I imagine he'd try to keep the combat very short-distance and fast paced, which wouldn't let F/SN's Lancer have a chance to use Gae Bolg. But I can't get any of my media players to work right now, so I can't re-watch any fight scenes from F/Z and I might be remembering things weird. *shrug*

I sorta have mixed feelings about Fate/Apocrypha. On one hand, I think it's cool to see all the different servants that might have been summoned. On the other hand...well, seeing Jack the Ripper's design just totally put me off. The heck is she even wearing? And other possible servants like Shakespeare and Frankenstein just don't make much sense to me. Unless Frankenstein is a fake like the Assassin that Caster summoned, I don't see any explanation for that. And the idea of Shakespeare dueling head-to-head with someone like Gilgamesh is just hilarious, in the awkward sort of way.

[「黑風影」]

There is always Fate/Extra, in which I also do not own the console for ;_; orz, if you want to see other servants. There is also extra classes besides the main 7 too.
I can't say much since I have not play the game... how about you, Mezzo?

Edited by 「豆釘 ~ 黑風影」, 04 May 2012 - 09:47 PM.

[Katzilla]

Fate/Extra and Unlimited Codes are both on the PSP. The later was kind of a let down, but the former is actually a bit entertaining. It's not exactly conventional though, and the gameplay may need some getting used to. Good news is that there are new servants introduced.

[「黑風影」]

Yeah, I was kind of interested in the new servants as well, like Lu Bu. The introduction of having Arcueid and Ryougi Shiki in it also pique my interested. Fate/Extra CCC apparenlty you can choose Gilgamesh as your servant as wel
I guess I have to play the game for myself, although I am not too fond of dungeon game play.
Is there much story in it, Kat?

On the other hand, Battle Moon Wars is quite a good doujin game if you guys like tactical strategy. The plot in the game links both Tsukihime, Fate and Kara no Kyoukai together, taking place after the Heaven's Feel route.

[MezzoParody]

Yeah, I was kind of interested in the new servants as well, like Lu Bu. The introduction of having Arcueid and Ryougi Shiki in it also pique my interested. Fate/Extra CCC apparenlty you can choose Gilgamesh as your servant as wel

I do not own a PSP, nor do I know much about this game. But now I am definitely interested in it. Please, Kat, tell us more!

On the other hand, Battle Moon Wars is quite a good doujin game if you guys like tactical strategy. The plot in the game links both Tsukihime, Fate and Kara no Kyoukai together, taking place after the Heaven's Feel route.

I am also interested in this as well. (Just about anything with Nasuverse crossovers interests me, to be honest...) By doujin game, do you mean completely fan-made? Or do you mean another doujin group working with Type-Moon's permission, like Melty-Blood?

[「黑風影」]

Yes its completely doujin fan-made by a company called Werk. They do a pretty good job sticking to natsuverse though.
I've played a few missions around 30 something, and its quite fun, there is quite a bit of plot throughout the game that is interesting =D
The game mechanics is like Super Robot Wars, a turn base tactical RPG, where there is a grid and you deploy your characters on the field, move them where you want. They would be a set mission that is given; destroy all enemies on the field, escape within how many turns. When its the enemy turn, you can choose to counter with an attack, defend or evade.

There is also different routes depending on the main character you choose in the beginning; like super robot wars (Super robot route or Real robot route) they have more power armor character, or you can choose agile and range. Some paths are join and some path split, so you may want to play both depending.

Each character would have stats you can upgrade with money?? , equipments to boost their power, additional powers you can buy with battle points. They also get level ups depending on how many experience gain through destroying how many units.
Later in the game you also have team up moves that are unblockable, if characters and adjacent to one antoher, but they must learn the move before hand.

Good news is that it's also partically translated; all the plot are translated except the ingame mechanics.

If you have not already notice, I've uploaded a few cross-over type moon doujin here on batoto as well. Check them out.
All Around Type-Moon - Ahnenerbe no Nichijou (comedy)
and
Type-Moon Complex X (Doujinshi) (battle between Tsukihime characters v.s. Fate)

[Katzilla]

All Around Type-Moon - Ahnenerbe no Nichijou (comedy)

Spoiler

xD Oh Gilgamish, you're so silly.
Thanks for telling me about this, I've been looking for something to satisfy my Carnival Phantasm needs. =P

[MezzoParody]

Yes its completely doujin fan-made by a company called Werk. They do a pretty good job sticking to natsuverse though.
I've played a few missions around 30 something, and its quite fun, there is quite a bit of plot throughout the game that is interesting =D

Welp, now I'm sold. I'm hunting down this game even as I type this.

If you have not already notice, I've uploaded a few cross-over type moon doujin here on batoto as well. Check them out.
All Around Type-Moon - Ahnenerbe no Nichijou (comedy)
and
Type-Moon Complex X (Doujinshi) (battle between Tsukihime characters v.s. Fate)

Thanks you so much for uploading these! I've already read the Ahnenerbe one (right after Carnival Phantasm ended, because I was desperate for more) but I somehow missed Complex X. Wow! It's awesome! Not enough Illya though. Or Rider. Or Kohaku. None of my favorite characters ever get enough time in the spotlight T-T

[「黑風影」]

No problem =) glad you guys like it =D

@ Mezzo: A warning if you download battle moon wars, if you download the Complete Best version, the english patch would not cover the translated names of the character due to extra stuff added. Make sure you have lots of time, becuase they are qutie time consuming and addicting. One mission may take an hour or so depending if you want to clear the special mission criteria (every mission has that criteria which would earn you extra battle points to upgrade your characters). When you actually start the game, its begins with hard difficulty mode. If you fail the mission you get to choose if you want replay the mission in normal mode XD XD

All Around Type-Moon - Ahnenerbe no Nichijou was official, script was made by TYPE MOON =D It was quite fun to see Manager George = Jouji Nakata the seiyuu of all three villian role in Type moon series.
T-Moon Complex X is complete doujin so power levels may not be accurate. As for more comics of llya, there was always the mahou shoujo one (I have a feeling it was already discussed here??). Rider had more screen time in fate hollow and Carnival XD She was surprisingly quite funny, here is a video I found with her doing side commentaries on F/SN anime, only if you can understand japanese without subtitles.

Spoiler

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9NteZgj2Io

Be happy that Battle Moon Wars, you will need to use Kohaku and Hisui a lot =D

If anyone else can't wait for the next chapter of T-Moon Complex X translation, I can always post the link for the raws here. Its probably going to be awhile before someone would actually translate this.

[perish]

aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i didn't know there was such a THREAD!!!!!!!!! why didn't you guys tell me, i have been kept in the DARK. you guys will taste the wrath of my excaliber ^{_{(after examz) i wanna smother some one}}

[Muni]

aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

i didn't know there was such a THREAD!!!!!!!!! why didn't you guys tell me, i have been kept in the DARK. you guys will taste the wrath of my excaliber ^{_{(after examz) i wanna smother some one}}

Pat, pat, it's gonna be ok :3 Cheer up, have some sock puppets~

[「黑風影」]

Welcome Kishi Ou and Muni.
I humbly apologize my highness m(_ _)m . It was rude of me not to invite you into the thread.
This is partically my indolence of having this thread be at low exposure, please do forgive my insolence and sheath your golden sword.

On the other hand, both of you have come right on time =)
Please feel free to discuss anything about Type Moon or Fate world here. The more the merrier.

THIS WEEK (May 5th, 2012), we are holding Round 2 of battle withn the class of Assassin from F/SN and F/Z.
This round seems to be unfair at the same time quite interesting three way battle. Unlike the last round, we have actually witness the strength of Assassin v.s. True Assassin ( eluded in the visual novel, Heaven's Feel route). But how would Assassin (Fate/Z) change things up. (Please Assume that each one is going for an one on one battle against one another).

Some may ask, what is the difference between True Assassin (F/SN - heaven's feel route) v.s. Assassin (Fate/Zero). This is a good question, it is quite confusing to understand but they are in fact both directly related.
Note: the only reason why "True" is attached to the title Assassin is to distinguish between the two Assassin class in F/SN.

From what my understanding of it is, True Assassin is one single entity out of the 18 Hassan that have modified their bodies in order to become head of the clan during their lifetime.
In Fate/Zero, they are many but they are one, they all don't really names but they all go by Assassin, Hassan multiple personalities (80 different servants) that disregards age, face, gender. Each assassin has various skills, specialization and task collected in Hassan's life time.

Assassin (Fate/Stay Night)

Spoiler

Abilities STATS~
~Strength: C ~Magical energy: E
~Endurance: E ~Luck: A
~Agility: A+ ~Noble Phantasm: ??

Class Abilities~

Presence Concealment: D
-Hides one's presence as a Servant. Suitable for spying.

Skill~

Tsubame Gaeshi : ???

Spoiler

Mind's Eye (Fake): A
-Resistance to changes in visibility caused by visual interference. Also called the sixth sense, or prescience; an innate tallent to sense danger.
NOTE: NOT to be confused with Mind's Eye (True) that is possesed by Lancer (F/Z). Mind's Eye (Fake) is natural tallent to avoid danger that could be gained through many ordeals and adventures. It greatly differs from Mind's Eye (True), which is danger avoidance that originates from “predictions augmented by experience”( meaning Mind's Eye (Fake) is more instinctual within battle you can have a good grasp after a few clashes. Where as Mind's Eye (True) is more planned out and insight is gain through accumulation of battle experience. .

Transparency: B+
-Clear and serene. A barrier that nullifies mental intervention.
Since he is not an assassin, he cannot use the Assassin Ability, Presence Concealment, but he can conceal his presence as a master of martial arts. (I assume this is talking about how he was only summon under the Assassin class but he was not orginally an assassin during his life time)

Knowledge of Foremost Harmony: B
-A special ability that prevents reduction of the effectiveness of an attack, no matter how many times it is used against the same opponent. Attacks will not be perceived by the enemy.


Noble Phantasm~ N/A
He simply does not have one.
If you must say so, it is his Tsubame Gaeshi technique that is consider to be of Noble Phantasm class, in which no ordinary human can attain such extraordinary feat. Unavoidable if there is no errors being made during the execution of the move. In addition, it should be noted that this technique is pure skill, there is absolutely no magic involved.

True Assassin (Fate/Stay Night)

Spoiler

~Strength: B ~Magical energy: C
~Endurance: C ~Luck: E
~Agility: A ~Noble Phantasm: C

Class Special Abilities~

Presence Concealment: A+
-Hides one's presence as a Servant. Suitable for spying. Once he has erased his presence, it is almost impossible to find him. however, the rank of presence concealment drops substantially when he switches to attack mode.

Skill~

Throwing (Daggers): B
-The ability to fire a dagger like a bullet.

Divine Protection from the Wind: A
-A curse handed down in the Middle East, used to ward off storms.

Self Remodeling : C
- How well one can attach and fuse a totally different body to one's own. The higher the rank, the further one is from a legitimate hero.
(In this case, True Assassin (Hassan) fused the arm of Shaytān (Zabaniya： Heartbeat of Delusion ) with his own right arm with this skill)
Noble Phantasm~

Spoiler

Assassin (Fate/Zero)

Spoiler

~Strength: C ~Magical energy: C
~Endurance: D ~Luck: E
~Agility: A ~Noble Phantasm: B

Class Special Abilities~

Presence Concealment: A+
-Hides one's presence as a Servant. Suitable for spying. Once he has erased his presence, it is almost impossible to find him. however, the rank of presence concealment drops substantially when he switches to attack mode.

Possessed Skill~

Librarian of Stored Knowledge: C
is an ability that makes it possible for a clear recall of knowledge from memory with a successful Luck check, even if the information perceived in the past was not consciously acknowledged at the time. In this case, Assassin achieved this by distributing his(Hassan) memory processing among his many different personalities.

Expert of Many Specializations: A+
Access to and use of many expert skills. A total of 32 different skills ranging from tactics, academia, espionage, assassination, swindling, rhetoric and others can be used with proficiency of Rank B or above. This is achieves by having Assassin arbitrary changing between his multiple personalities.


Noble Phantasm~

Zabaniya- Delusional Illusion

• Rank: B+
• Type: Anti-Unit
• Range: N/A
• Maximum number of targets: self

- " is the ability used by the "The Hundred-Faced Hassan", who was the Assassin summoned during the fourth Holy Grail War.
It is an anti-unit Noble Phantasm that targets Assassin himself rather than an opponent.
Assassin is a single entity, but he possesses a multiply divided soul and multiple personalities that allow him to divide his spiritual potential to materialize up to eighty different Servants. Though limited by his physical body during life, his thousand souls are now free of such limitations, and can be materialized simultaneously in different shapes. There is a chance of losing his sense of self by splitting into too many different individuals. Each one is its own separate entity, and the only shared characteristics are their skull masks and black cloaks. Their body sizes can be giant, slim, short as children, and some can even be women. They each have their own will, personality, and strengths, and though they are against unnecessary sacrifice, losing one without a specific strength doesn't directly affect the whole of the others more than losing a finger.
They can be split up for reconnaissance, but they have to directly speak to each other to communicate information and decide on orders. If the Master has the ability to see through his Servant's eyes, he is limited to a single Assassin at any one time.
If they are separated on numerous different assignments, it can take up to ten minutes to summon them all together in one spot.
Assassin's statistics are divided among the bodies, so this means that they are unable to match any Heroic Spirits in direct combat, nor does it allow him to equal a small army.
Though not suitable for combat, their abilities are unparalleled in terms of spying and gathering recon. Their high numbers do allow for a final resort strategy to kill an opponent's Master by sacrificing the greater whole in order to overwhelm the opponent with pure numbers."

Complete

Edited by 「豆釘 ~ 黑風影」, 06 May 2012 - 04:22 PM.

[Muni]

Ooooh this is interesting :3. I'd vouch for Koji-kun any day, but hey~ I'd like to hear the statistics first~

What IS his standing compared to True Assassin?

[Katzilla]

The statistics are up. This is interesting.

Zero Assassin's use of his only noble phantasm for combat is strictly limited, due to distribution of power. On the other hand, while both having somewhat decent Strength, neither Kouji nor True Assasin have any anti-army abilities. Would that mean they'd be overwhelmed? Or perhaps, because each Zero Assassin will be very weak, it'll only be easier yet more time-consuming to dispatch him? I personally think it's the later. If this was a three-way battle, I think both would agree that Zero Assassin should go out first.

Once it's only True Assassin vs. Kouji, Heartbeat of Delusion vs.Tsubame Gaeshi, it all comes down to who attacks first. Kouji has weak Magic, and as such Heartbeat of Delusion is very affective. On the other hand, Kouji is the quicker one, and Tsubame Gaeshi is unavoidable, especially with him being quicker. It could go either way from here.

[「黑風影」]

Ooooh this is interesting :3. I'd vouch for Koji-kun any day, but hey~ I'd like to hear the statistics first~

What IS his standing compared to True Assassin?

Yes, the stats are up on the post I made up here (located at the bottom of the post)
You just need to click on spoiler for each servant. Koji would be under Assassin (Fate/Stay Night)
Also, you still vote for the battle against Lancers by looking up the stats here (at the bottom of the post, same format as round 2 stats comparison).

Like before, I would post my opinion on this after a day or two.
But yes this is quite an interesting battle, and I agree on Katsu opinion on battle tactics against Assassin (F/Z).
Also note that , Assassin(F/SN) may or may not be better off tied to the temple grounds depending on your choice.
This is merely comparison if they do battle against each other, under different circumstances and in top condition.

Edited by 「豆釘 ~ 黑風影」, 06 May 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Muni]

hmmm, the way I see it, Koji may win

The way I see it, the Hundred Hassan would undoubtedly massacre True Assassin. True Assassin can only delusional heartbeat one person at a time, and well, Hundred Hassan isn't one person. He's 80 highly trained assassins. Delusional heartbeat may allow him to gain more intel by consuming 5-10 of the Hassans, but in the end, he's a cooked fish .

With Koji-kun however, The Hundred Hassan have a difficulty. One, there's no way to avoid Tsubame Gaeshi. Two, there's no way to get a Dark to strike Koji-kun, as his swordsmanship skills parallel that of Saber's. Three, his nodachi is absurdly long, it's taller than most people, it has a definite range advantage. And four, Koji-kun, while being in the Assassin class, is a fighter. That means he has a lot more endurance, pure battle experience, and reflexes than an assassin. In this way, he would be able to fight the 80 Hassans on level footing, especially if they do not have the same amount of power as a normal servant due to the nature of their Noble Phantasm.

Finally, a fight between Koji-kun and True Assassin is pointless. Zabaniya only works on humans. Not only is Koji-kun a Servant, he was also never a "real human", and thus the regulations of Zabaniya prevent it from working against him. Without his Noble Phantasm, this is just a repeat of how the battle with the 80 Hassans would go, except with 79 less opponents, albeit the one opponent may have a bit better physical condition/reflexes.

[Katzilla]

Hm? Where does it say that it only works on humans?