10 replies to this topic

[TEO]

The only thing that keeps irritating me about this story, is that some people in it with scientific knowledge thinks that we should give up modern science because of one phenomenon that they have not yet found an explanation for. As if all that modern science have achieved and confirmed with experiments never happened. If real scientists thought that way then they would have given up their science many times over as there are indeed many phenomenons that haven't got a good enough explanation yet or an explanation at all.
But that is why there still are scientists in this world isn't it?

[Laurens D]

Well, Have to agree they came to fast to the conclusion that it was ESPers. Al though don't think they have given up because it might have been people in the confrence room who said that. But still they agreed to fast

[master0123]

I would say that the notion of Modern Science has not died in this manga.
Theories in science can explain what is possible for the phenomenon to occur, but there can be no real answers. (at least not for us)

The laws of Physics is kinda like the idea of alchemy (i.e Full Metal Alchemist). Equivalence in everything.
Something cannot be lost without reason. So the idea that he can break down an item and rematerialize it into whatever that rock like thing is called is reasonable.

Chemically he breaks down the item to their basic combonents.(At the molecular level everything is just Protons, Neutrons, Electrons and their components) With physics he uses equal trade. Uses energy to break down the substance. While breaking down the substance energy is also released. This energy that is released is used to transfer the base combonents to him and rematerialize into a substance that i simply know as "that rock-like thing".

I think the idea of ESP in the book is not misplaced but a filler for what they cannot prove.
Although im kinda confused as to why the flesh that he took from the arm of that attacker guy was fleshy and bloody. Now thats a curveball.

[Teknophreak]

Worded differently, he could have just said "This marks the change of everything we know about science." they weren't denying modern science just one of those this changes everything!

[ddadain]

Lol.

 

Modern Science is based on the system of quid-pro-quo wherein for any physical phenomena (the only type of phenomena that science accepts) has to have an input and an output. The reason why the realization of "Extra Sensory Perception" would destroy it is because the concept of "will" being able to effect physical change in the physical world is not compatible with the quid-pro-quo system. 

Take for example, if an esper had the ability to create a billion volt spark (like Misaka Mikoto) in quick succession, where in Science's green Earth did she get the "energy" to produce such a phenomena in the first place. In the case of Destroy and Revolution, our 2 espers are transporting objects through space (which causes some sort of "frictive force" or a reaction that causes heat [maybe from the energy released in the breaking of the molecular bonds intra-object]) without any "fuel/energy requirement" which is INSANE! Goes against both Newtonian and Quantum mechanics!

 

Truly, if superpowers were real, our understanding of EVERYTHING, LITERALLY EVERYTHING, would change. If "will" is all that is needed to overturn the laws of the universe, then perhaps human beings aren't just "part of it" but we really are in the center of things...

[Moloch]

Well, we know for a fact that telepathic phenomenon exist and that they can be replicated under lab conditions but since we’re just talking about information here and not direct mind-matter interaction (although there’s evidence for that, too, albeit on a much smaller scale) this doesn’t create much of a problem in regard to the source of the energy for those phenomenon.

[ernabc]

You didn't mention something : our actual physics covers only understandable phenomena in known systems . Our actual maths covers a lot of real or conceptual domains , rules and functions from them and between them .That's why there is a lot of room to expand in maths .

 

My idea: Give them the fact that ESPs really exist in our world and you'll see that the maths and physics will cover soon the theory .

Edited by ernabc, 12 April 2014 - 09:43 PM.

[truepurple]

Pfft, you believe ESP is real LOL, tested in a lab... some people will say anything.

[kishind]

BakedPotato, you can run a simple experiment with your friends.

To see if you can tell whether or not someone is looking at you from behind, a phenomenon commonly experienced.

Screen out possible sensory information that could give it away, agree on an independent "trigger", and every time the trigger occurs, both the experimenter and the subject write down whether or not the experimenter was looking at the subject.  Of course, the subject doesn't "know" whether or not they were being looked at.  You'll have to run it dozens of times to establish an average.  If you're feeling ambitious, you can run a second test: when the experimenter is looking, they will also be thinking the name of the subject.

If random, you'd expect roughly a 50/50 split between the subject's guess being wrong or right... but when experiment has been run in the past, it's close to 2/3rds correct.  Think the subject's name, and it nears 3/4ths correct.

Again, you can run the tests yourself.  No lab needed.  There's also a fascinating experiment with EMF-shielded rooms, brain wave transceiver caps, and a strobe light, whose evidence implies that brain waves can carry intelligible information and deliver it to other brains via resonance. In any case, there are mechanisms here that we don't fully understand.

There are many mysteries left in the world, and science is always at the border between knowledge and ignorance.
Doubt is healthy; certainty is foolish.

[Rody van der Borst]

Doubt is healthy, but extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence to back them up.

And your claim is refuted by the many many MANY experiments that failed to produce the results you claim.

[geenius3ab]

What is modern science supposed to do? Science has its own restrictions as well. They can take a look at the areas where Oneness was used. And if they don't find anything, then they're out of luck.

Thing is that they don't have any test samples (None of them have been caught.). They have no way of capturing anyone. And all they know is that those people can switch the places of matter in some way. This is far more realistic then most other "Supernatural" mangas. Humanity didn't come equipped to deal with people who can teleport around and destroy things without coming into contact with those things (And without any sound.)

Edited by geenius3ab, 26 May 2016 - 07:16 PM.