77 replies to this topic

[omnipwnage]

just 11 oneshots, less than 250 pages.
11 short stories, which are a little parts of about 40 books. "huge numbers" needs to be relativised here.
SKR: 17 vol
Raqiya: 5 vol
Hotel, Space Chef Caisar, Lovers in Winter, H.E : 1 vol each
the rest are mostly shoujos from the time he was a manwhaka and was still published in Korean (along with several books about the use of photoshop in art, how to draw, etc...)

I'd see him more of a round about and accomplished artist able to use every styles he chose instead of the "hentai mangaka" that such a post wants to point.

I will say, that while I would not classify him as someone whom is a "hentai mangaka" exclusively with the way he draws his content, it usually does go beyond what most would consider ecchi fanfare in a lot of his material. Again, this isn't specifically a bad thing as it is his style. Stigma towards his work containing a lot of fan service could have easily been reversed a while ago, but he probably doesn't have anything against it, as it's what he's good at (Much like the depressing, youth-centered works that have piled up around Kitoh Mohiro.) So to wrap it up, I wouldn't classify him as a hentai mangaka, but he definitely knows he's inserting more than enough fan service into his works.

[Moloch]

On a side note, isn’t it funny how women’s right activists used to complain about society chastising them for dressing “immodestly” (i.e. for showing skin) and now we’re at a point where they complain when women are portrayed the opposite? Damned if you do, damned if you don’t :3

[Surells]

Yes, it bothers me. I like the plot and the characters, but the treatment of women just gets on my nerves. It's not even hot, it's just sleezy and repetitive and cringeworthy.

[ernabc]

do you think yumin is a weak girl? We'll see in the next chapters...

[sexykoala]

seen a lot of good posts, but still think I should fit my opinion in here:

Sunken rock and some of boichi's other work, has excellent action scenes, hot women, and delicious food. they all apply to basic instincts, and I do think Boichi is a typical male who loves all 3 of them, and as a mangaka loves to draw them. The audience is supposed to be the same time of males who love action, women and food. Personally I know nothing about japanese/korean food and when I see it, it just confuses me. I do understand if women who do love action and delicious food, have the same problem when hot women come up. Yet you still read it because of the other parts and the excellent art and good story. I doubt Boichi thinks much about the portrayal of women in SKR. He just wants to draw them in the story.

[ThatLonelyGuy]

Read a bit of the posts here but I'll also give my opinion.

First off, I'd have to say, the main female characters drawn need to be sexy because if they weren't you've lost half of your fan base already. But that's usually the case for Hollywood movies anyway. I've heard Boichi's a hentai artist, so why not use it?

I think the whole reason why the women in SKR are treated like shit is so that it get you engaged and thinking about it. Not every manga/book/movie has to give you a happy feeling. That sour taste in your mouth is exactly what Boichi's wants you to taste. Thing is, raping, forced prostitution and shit like that happens for real. Making those victims attractive, makes it look far more devastating.

Of course, this manga is NOT for everyone. It's normal to be offended by it, but you MUST look and think deeper. Its not just fan service.

Edited by ThatLonelyGuy, 10 November 2012 - 01:06 AM.

[Zephyrsun]

I'm sorry, but I'm a guy and I call bullsh*t on all the other guys who are bringing up this 'double standard' of SKR men being ideal. Men like being portrayed as powerful, ripped, dominating, able to expose their pectorals and 6-packs, yet sensitive and chivalrous Women, however, do not enjoy being portrayed as simply beautiful curves with a strong-willed personality. I can't tell how many mangas I've read where everyone loves the male MC because he is everything a male expects an ideal male to be, and the women hate the female lead because she is everything a male expects an ideal female to be.

This pissed me and my wife off to no end. Who says women do not like reading about other women who have beautiful curves and a strong-willed personality? The sheer lack of strong female protagonists in video games and similar mediums gives many of my female friends who love manga/anime/games and wife grief all the time.

Do you think women instead like to see homely or unattractive girls with no willpower who are unable to do anything for themselves? No, they're just the same as you. They like to feel empowered. I would assert that a great deal of Sun-Ken Rock's appeal is following Ken and being empowered through the process. Following a guy who has chicks fall down at his feet, full of integrity who can ass-kick his way through most situations like a martial arts Vash the Stampede. In something like Fushugi Yugi, Miaka is chased by a dozen guys who fall all over her. Or Maid-Sama. The protagonist who is gifted with a special 'charm' isn't exactly a unique concept.

The lack of female protagonists who can do the same and have to use a surrogate (such as a Shoujo Princess's 'knight' like Inuyasha) rather than doing it themselves (Bayonetta, Trish from DMC, Motoko Kusanagi) is actually quite sad. And probably one of the reasons Anime/Manga/Video Games still have a largely male as opposed to 50/50 gender following. In Shonen you seen female characters constantly taking a back foot (All the females in Naruto, quite a few of the characters in One Piece until the time leap, Rei and Asuka in Evangelion, take your pick). Where are the women who can kick ass with a strong willed personality?

What a male expects a female I've found personally is the exact opposite of Ken - someone who can't fight and requires others to fight for her. Kae-Lyn with the exception of being such obvious fanservice is at least refreshing in the fact that she can hold her own. I also liked the bits where Yumin could actually kick some ass against a Yakuza assassin. It seems at least to me in Japanese culture the more refined timid but 'cute' girl seems to find more of a place because they are considered what men want to see/fantasize about.

Long story short - we need more female Kens.

[sentry]

Fan service or not i do not care.
All i see is that boichi is giving us a story about everything i hate and usually avoid that exist in our society.
Yes usually i avoid reading books talking about prostitutes, rapes, drugs , gangs because it is already too much in my everyday life(not literally), it's because each time i look at newspaper, tv news these topic seems to appear everyday and at the same time i feel powerless because there is nothing i can do and also because so many years passed and we are still at the same point nothing really changed.
The reason why i read SKR is because i can read about these topics without feeling depressed, yes the story is good, the characters too, they are all both simple and complex at the same time and yeah i like how people be it men or women can cry and express their feelings so naturally, i like how ken is a badass and yet at the same time not the strongest nor the smartest but the one with enough charisma to make people aware of his existence, how few words of him can change everything and how he resolve problems like prostitution( it is a problem but banning it is stupid, the only good thing to do is to put it under some kind of control).
Yes i like SKR and if you don't, do not complain there so much manga is this world that i hpe you will find some you like just as much as i like SKR.

[Daniel Eklund]

ugh too much to read here, im on weapers side, Aedra go back to the kitchen

[海斗 山本]

People! You do realize that Ken is essentially a gangster. He rules the underground. Boichi most probably wanted to contain some real elements to it and unfortunately in real life, the underground. and "thugs" do treat women like shit. Just listen, to the majority of rap nowadays. These people essentially are/were/(or fabricated) gangsters (although some may not be as hard core as this manga shows). Just look at how they treat women just from the way they rap. 

 

So yeah, Boichi is pretty much representing women how they are treated in this type of society. As for Yumin, I only see here as fan service material, tbh. 

[NoodleMan]

No i am not bothered by the "fact" of how "ALL" the women in Boichi's work are portrayed.

Firstly the woman Ken loves proves the "fact" wrong and proves the "ALL" part as wrong and she is just "one of".

Secondly nothing is "portrayed", they are given a character and a peronality and that's who the women are, there exists individualism in this manga. If you can't accept them as individuals that is your own problem, but interpreting them as a general portrayal of women is your own perceived thing, your own construct in your mind, not a fact. It is a generalization in its own right. The idea that the artist has an agenda with how he made his work is also all assumptions and angle of interpretation, no facts.

Thirdly this is a work about the underground world, that speaks for itself enough.

Fourth, East Asian culture is different and will always be different than the Western European/Northern European/N. American.

 

Finally if people don't like to read it, they should move on. This is a valid FACT rather than argument because it assumes that you are a mature person with the emotional restraint, understanding and objectivity of a mature person that is capable of making choices. Most importantly the assumptions that someone is mature comes with a trait of maturity called being "thick skinned", as in "not being easily offended and influenced" as in "having emotional integrity and objectivity".

 

I like the whole work perfectly as it is and i like all the girls as they are. These are called opinions as one would say.

[Heretic]

OP is so ignorant it's not even funny anymore.

[rituel]

This thread should be closed and all other threads like this should get deleted instantly, making a topic that would create anger among the fans of a manga in the manga fans;s section is just plain stupid. If you are genuinely bothered by how the women are "portrayed" (pfft) then please don't complain about it in the fan's forums, its you want to get flamed.

That makes sense, I'll have to clarify in the future.



Over-the-top ecchi has never really been a deal breaker, and I can't really say which it is since I can't list the topics it covers (once again though, it's generally the maturity and depth with which topics are approached that determines it, rather than the topics themselves).

 

so you're telling me that Boichi didn't address the problems of prostitution, organised crime etc. deeply enough for the manga to be classified as sienen?? the incest part, the part where the show girls get exploited weren't deep enough? hmm I think I have understood the extent of your reasoning capability.

Edited by rituel, 02 August 2013 - 04:59 PM.

[Leoh]

Well, ignoring every post in this thread. I'm going to go ahead and agree with Aedra here that every girl or around 90% girls shown in this manga, have been a target for sexual harassment, abuse, slavery, extreme ecchiness. Even Yumin, the main heroine has been drugged and almost raped, even if it was for comedy.
I'm just saying(I'm reading a lot of mangas at the same time so I might forget some powerful points) that there hasn't been many girls with good back story and character development without being caught in the slave business, or raped and abused.

P.s. But, however, it's really good if you want to get in the 'mood'.

Edited by Daemon, 04 August 2013 - 08:51 AM.

[Moloch]

Your avatar makes this post of yours that much more hilarious.

[lilcrybaby]

Your avatar makes this post of yours that much more hilarious.

hohoho burned....

[azrael005]

I actually joined this site just to reply to this...

 

First of all... the main character is supposed to be relatively chivalrous... that's actually one of the premises of the character. If you have a problem with his rescuing the "helpless and beautiful damsels in distress" then you really need to start think about protesting every Disney movie with a damsel in distress for not having an ugly heroine. Furthermore does he justify the objectification of women as sex objects no... In fact the whole prostitution arc was about the failing in morality and in fact makes the males in the series quite piglike and they are portrayed in an absolutely negative light. In fact the gang-boss responsible is one of the few characters actively killed on screen by the protagonist and the character who does it.... none other than the resident FEMALE weapons mistress.

 

On that subject Kae-Lyn Kim's use of sex as well as the other twin hotel seductress assassins are clearly not senselessly smutty. It is a deliberate and calculated act for the most part (sans Kae-Lyn's stalker love for Ken). They are consumate professionals when it comes to the job and have no qualms about using any necessary means to get the job done. If anything it actually reflects kind of poorly on the men for being fool enough to fall for it and let them slit throats.

 

Furthermore the idea that there is a problem with the all the women being attractive... there are background women who are of average looks its just that the main characters in the series and the ones relevant to the plot are generally attractive unless a villain this goes for males and females. Also if you think women have a problem with beautiful caricatures portrayed in art then you clearly have never gone to a beach or seen the clothes beign worn by the younger generations or any club where women are just as aggressive as the men if not more so.

 

Additionally as a guy I am would be mildly offended by the actions of Pickaxe were it not for the fact that I understand that he's a joke of a character as far as his sexual deviancy goes. And why do all the guys besides Tae-Soo Park have to be relatively stupid characters muscling their way through everything. Where are the complaints about the senseless stupidity that the men in the series are portrayed as having. For crying out loud Do-Heun Chang  is a muscle bound car fetishist. Where is the complaint on that stereotype or the Casanova buffoon that is Benito.

 

For all these things I don't complain because I take it as the commentary that it is and the joke that is being made about it. These imperfect characters, with negative traits still being the "good guys" who everyone wants to cheer for. The same can be said as for the women. At times I want to see Kae-Lyn succeed in getting what she wants because she has the balls to go out and demand it regardless of what others think of her. I like the character of the prostitutes who have such horrible things done to them and their families and finding it in themselves to keep on moving with their lives and not becoming bitter shells for all the things done to them and the willingness to trust another to lead the street they live on knowing full well that Ken could have turned out to be another monster.

[Shine Pale]

Never mind. I should know better than to respond to troll threads.

Edited by Shine Pale, 15 October 2013 - 05:06 PM.