367 replies to this topic

[fiveseconds]

Yup, that's Mizura the convenient walking encyclopedia for you.

I just want to state that despite the speculations that Kinnara shirked her duties and let Airavata take over, it's possible she's dead. There hasn't been any mention of her apart from the Finite and that was many years ago. Vritra also could have been reading human text (as far as we know, there's really no written language of the Suras and some like Shess/Yuta know human script). It seems like he got it directly from the gods.

[Mizura]

Huh, good point, Kinnara could be dead. It's just that if she's dead, then we may never learn her story (including what her relation with Vritra is), and that's kind of a pity. D: If, on the other hand, she is alive, then it'd be really interesting to know how she's been handling Vritra all this time.

Vritra reading human text? Well, maybe it was Primeval God text? Good point though, maybe Sura Don't have written text.

Another thing we've learned from the finite: Currygom has no problem killing off characters. D:

I started working on that list of facts a long time ago actually. It's just that I wanted to wait for the series to more or less end before posting anything. xD Only the epilogues are left now though, so at least the major facts should be set in stone (I mean, first we thought Tak destroyed Ian's village, then we thought Utpala did... but now the culprit is more or less confirmed, right?).

By the way, I'm Really curious about what will be shown in the epilogues.
- Tak with the earrings greeting his granddaughter?
- Tak after he's gone back to the sura realm?
- Kasak after his father has left?
- Maybe even much later, after N0 has passed?
- Maybe even a re-appearance of Visnu and co.?
We also know that Kasak met Shess at one point, and so did Agwen. It could have been an interesting encounter.

Damn, I want the epilogues now. ;_;

[themantarays]

What I meant was does the "Agni" from the previous universe remember himself? Was it a different entity? Or was it a different name altogether? Maybe this is the only universe with fire at all?

[Mizura]

Different entity, most likely, but still the same Name. Well, I'm still not sure how this name business works, but the way I see it, Visnu created the new races then assigned Names to them. In doing so, the Names became a fundamental part of those beings, but even so, they are different beings from the past beings that held the Name. In some ways, I guess you could compare Names to Roles.

In the webtoon, Agni mentions that he barely remembers when he was born. So that seems like a pretty clear cut-off point. Also, note this part that Kareia kindly translated:

"Originally the name Taksaka was not this dangerous, but the dragon of this universe had an error. Maybe it was because the god of destruction could not correct all the errors of the universe, and it had affected the dragon of destruction."

So in part universes, there were also dragons with the name Taksaka.

It is unclear how each Universe is supposed to differ from each other. We know that the Primeval Gods can govern the names and change their properties to a point, so perhaps they had been tinkering with races and names in each new Universe in order to find a proper balance, but something would always break the balance and cause the Universe to end. Who knows? Maybe it's related to the central plot of Kubera, so I'm really curious about this mechanism as well.

Edited by Mizura, 24 September 2012 - 04:16 AM.

[Boredoom]

I thought of a possibility: universe ends , Agni dies short time later new universe & flames -> Agni ressurects.

Possible? Yes? No?

[Mizura]

Well no, that doesn't seem to be how it works. Remember:

• Chapter 99 refers to them as "new lives" being born. Besides, it doesn't make sense if the Gods were the same as previous universes, but the Nastikas are brand new beings.
• For Agni and Kubera, the blog entry goes like this: "Jurisdiction: Nature - Immortal before the destruction of the Universe"

Basically we're talking about two concepts of resurrection here. Gods like Agni don't Really die in this Universe, they just get stuck in limbo for a while. But if the Universe is destroyed, they die for real.

To give you a better idea: I had made a summary of the profile of Gods near the beginning of the thread (I need to fix the terms though). Natural Gods have jurisdictions that are found in nature so they're unlikely to disappear as long as the Universe still exists. But the jurisdiction of Created Gods appeared after the creation of the Universe, and those jurisdictions can disappear or be destroyed. For example, the God of a Planet Will die if that planet is destroyed. That's true death from which the God can't be resurrected. If the Universe is destroyed, then Agni will also experience such a true annihilation.

Sure, the next Universe will have fire again, but I imagine that it is no longer the same jurisdiction, just like a new planet won't replace a destroyed one. It'd be a new jurisdiction, not the one that kept Agni alive. Visnu will likely create a New being with the name Agni, but it's no longer the same Agni.

Edited by Mizura, 24 September 2012 - 05:13 AM.

[Boredoom]

Ah, i see, thanks

[themantarays]

Possible creepy scenario: The primeval gods could be constantly creating and destroying universes and lives until they get it just right. I'm getting visions of Yuno Gasai recreating the game a bunch of times so she can be with her love/obsession for one day in Future Diary.

Edited by themantarays, 24 September 2012 - 08:10 AM.

[Mizura]

That first part you mentioned wasn't creepy, but the comparison to Future Diary sure was! xD

I think a big part of the conflict may result from the fact that the different Primeval Gods have different objectives. Of course, we still have no idea what it meant for past Universes. Did Kali also take the remaining Nastika names back then for example? The other thing is that, as the finite showed, there is such a thing as "mistakes", in particular ones that couldn't be fixed in time (Tak being the example here).

Now, the way I see it, two mistakes/new variables have appeared in the current universe:

• The first is related to the Power of the Name and to the death of Ananta. When God Kubera killed Ananta, the Primeval Gods were Not happy, and God Kubera himself described it as a terrible mistake. The Power of the Name was probably used in a way that it should never have, possibly disrupting the balance of the Universe as a result.
• The second is Yuta. Just why did Kali have a son? There is also the question of the other Names that Kali took away. They were forbidden because they were flawed or dangerous. Now, how would they have been marked as such? Could it be that they were responsible for the destruction of previous Universes, and were forbidden as a result? And did Kali take one of these dangerous names and made Yuta with it?

Edited by Mizura, 24 September 2012 - 08:29 AM.

[Newbie <3]

i have no sense of direction in naver so might you link me to these novels i want see all pictures you mentioned plz

[fiveseconds]

http://blog.naver.com/currygom/10148182724

Here you go: chapter 30. It's a written novel and there are no pictures save for one illustration of Tak and Ian she posted a whole back.

I'm kind of bummed Shess hasn't made a second appearance in The Finite. Actually there's really nothing much of Kasak's adolescence other than Meiwen and Agwen. And judging by Shess's behavior, he doesn't know about Kalavinka. So Kalavinka&Kasak = early childhood. Kasak&Shess = teenage years (physical appearance)? I thought one of the two would appear and give a clue about current happenings but... No such luck. D:

(+there's also the matter of Airi's picture...)

[Mizura]

^ Unfortunately the part about Kalavinka at least was on purpose. Apparently Currygom purposely rewrote the novel to remove parts that overlap too much with the webtoon. Note sure about Shess though, that's why I'm curious about the epilogue. I wonder if she'll ever re-include those parts in the novel once the webtoon as already revealed them?

Ah! I forgot a few factoids:

- Apparently Yaksha Halfs are the most common type of Halfs.
- In the webtoon, we learned that humans eat Garuda eyes. The finite revealed two other supposed delicacies: Yaksha liver (boosts stamina) and dried Gandharva fins. Ew.
- Brilith is not the first person to become a priest at a very young age: the Water priest of Mistyshore was also a young child, though back then summoning Gods didn't drain one's life

And about Tak:
- Tak likes to drink milk.
- Tak is good at gardening.

I'll go add them. xD

Edited by Mizura, 25 September 2012 - 02:00 AM.

[Mizura]

WHOA... Epilogue Part 1 up, guys! And I'm certain it isn't what any of you were expecting! D:
There were many parts I was unsure of this chapter though, and I would appreciate it greatly if someone could help look it over? The content was quite interesting.

Vinata is indeed the current No. 2 of the Garuda clan, but apparently that wasn't always the case. Apparently many of the upper ranks in the Garuda clan have since died, so in fact, the Garuda clan was in a bad position: if Garuda himself fell then the clan would be Severely weakened. And that be the reason why Garuda made a deal with Kali. Kali may have revealed to him that he won't be able to last forever. Not only that, the No. 2 of the clan would fall too! The Garuda clan would end up as trash then. If that's what she told him though, then what was the true nature of the deal? I also get the impression that the full truth wasn't revealed to the whole clan, so Vinata had to bear with the humiliation when her children were sent away. (if she knew the truth, I think she'd be able to handle things better)

The sura realm sounds like a boring place. D:

And alas, Ravana, your time with us was thus short! Good riddance. xD Thou insulted Ian, and Taksaka did unleash his might bug exterminator breath on you. But, funny how many Nastika from other clans would join the Asura clan. By the way, look at this:


Garuda clan
1. Garuda - Coma
2+ ??: By the events of the finite, several high-ranking Garuda have already died, leaving Vinata as No. 2
?: Vinata - No. 2 by the events of the finite, deceased in N0

Gandharva clan
1. Gandharva - severely weakened, now weaker than the average Nastika
2. Makara
Others:
- Urvasi
- Menaka - Deceased (killed by the Gods- by jealous female gods maybe? D: )

Yaksha clan
1. Yaksha - deceased
2. Shuri - disappeared with Visnu
3. Ha??? (full name unknown)

Ananta clan
1. Ananta - Deceased (tricked by Kubera)
2. Vasuki - turned female to avoid the matter of succession
3. Manasvin - Disappeared.
??
- Sagara: current King, but considered weak

Asura clan
1. Asura, apparently alive and well
2. Ravana - Deceased (killed by Taksaka)

Vritra clan
1. Vritra - somewhat weakened by the time of the events of the finite (weaker than Taksaka)
2. Taksaka - most likely the strongest among No. 2 of all races (confirmed stronger than Vasuki and Ravana)

Kinnara clan
1. Kinnara - status unknown
2? Airavata

It's hard to tell from just the webtoon, but when you add up the finite, it becomes clear that the Sura ranks is much weaker than when it started:
- Webtoon: the Ananta clan found itself in a difficult position after the King died.
- Webtoon: the Gandharva clan is severely weakened.
- Webtoon: in the Yaksha clan, the first King died and the second King disappeared. The third king used to think herself as an outsider to her clan, which isn't very promising for her clan somehow...
- Finite: the Vritra clan is on the endangered list, and Vritra himself seems weakened.
- Finite: the Garuda upper ranks have actually been hollowed out. Only Garuda's presence still gave it might.
- Finite: the Asura clan's No. 2 got exterminated rather easily...

From its large numbers and the fact that the Asura clan welcomed many Nastika from other clans, one would have thought that the Asura clan ranked highest or something, so it's a bit surprising that nobody ever mentioned the Asura as a dominant clan. Well, who knows? Apart from that, we don't quite know what's up with the Kinnara clan. Overall though, even though the Gods are weaker than the Nastika, the ranks of the Nastika seem to have gone down a lot (I mean, if even the upper ranks suffered such casualties, surely the mid and lower ranks are even worse off?). Of course the Gods can't take all the credit, since the Sura seem quite happy to fight among themselves...

Edit: Heheheh, some people noted that Ruche would be dead meat if Tak were around. I could imagine something like this:
Ruche: Hah! That guy's (Kasak's) mother must have been really ugly! There's no way that the Nastika father was the one who's ugly, so...
Kasak: Dad, she is saying that mom was ugly.
Tak: You dare insult my wife? 9_9
Ruche: O_o_O_o_O I mean, no of course not! I was wrong! Now that I look at it, obviously the one who was ugly was the Father! I mean, not the Mother, I mean...
Tak: So you're saying that I'm the one who's ugly?
Ruche: Yes!!! I mean N... OMG!!!
Tak: Oh. That's fine then.
Ruche: ... *faint*

Edited by Mizura, 07 October 2012 - 01:22 AM.

[fiveseconds]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee there goes my Fanfiction. Officially AU now. I should finish it soon. xD

And Ravana sounds rather... overconfident. Exactly like Riche and Ruche. Man, sometimes I have to wonder how Nastikas like that survived for this long... but then again, Nastikas do have a reason to be smug, being the all powerful beings that they are.

For some reason, I'm picturing Ravana as Hura's father. o-o

[Mizura]

... Hura's father. x'D x'D x"D Quite possible.

I think Ravana's probably the type to surround himself with lots of followers, a lot like a queen bee type except male. So, he intimidates his opponents through numbers. He thought that the numbers would help him against Tak too, though obviously that didn't work out too well.

Tak was such a good boy though, resisting the provocation. Well, at least until Ian got insulted. You know, I used to assume Vasuki was the one who made fun of him after he came back, but now I guess the ones who did so were Ravana's group. Ravana's now very dead group. Oh-hoho.

fiveseconds, I thought about your fic the moment I saw "Vinata" written in there. xD Actually the convenient part about this outcome is that in both your fic and this story, most of the other high-level Garuda Nastika are dead. So readers can just pretend that you were writing about them. xD Vinata's even No. 2 here. Of course, that's because the stronger guys are dead, but hey, Vinata's in female form. Maybe she's stronger in male form. What's less clear is what happened with Kali though.

Edit: Ashenjay helped clarify some of the parts I didn't understand. I've incorporated them now, and will add the following to my compilation post:

• Sura realm: The Sura realm is described as a barren environment that's huge beyond human imagination, with red and black sky and foul air. The gravity is so strong there that ordinary people would have trouble standing on two feet. Despite the size, the landscape is similar everywhere, save for differences in elevation, weather or temperature, so it's easy to get lost.
• Sura in the Sura realm: Sura who like to fight actually prefer the Sura realm to the Human realm, because Visnu's protection did not apply there, and the terrains wouldn't be as affected. (since it's all barren land anyway)

• Taksaka's unique transcendental: Taksaka's unique transcendental makes it appear as though his Sura form is attacking his opponent: the opponent can get suddenly crushed or swatted by a tail. Yet at the same time Taksaka still appears to be standing there in human form. It activates faster than the time it normally takes for a Sura to take Sura form.

• Asura clan: The Asura clan is open to Nastika from other clans, though the Garuda and Asura clans are natural enemies (birds and insects). The Asura are as strong as the Garuda Nastika.
• Ravana, No. 2 of the Asura clan: Ravana has long tied-up silver hair, and his Sura form looks like a swarm of bees. He has a foul mouth and always likes to taunt others. At the same time, he likes to surround himself with other Nastika to flatter him. Alas, he taunted Taksaka, and all was well. But then he insulted Ian, and soon all was not well for him. RIP.

• Garuda clan Nastika: Several of the highest ranking Garuda have since died, leaving Vinata, who is much weaker than Garuda, as No. 2 of the Garuda clan. Ravana's gang described it as "If Garuda falls, then it's all over (for the Garuda)."

• Nastika wiew on mixing with humans: In Ran's flashback in the webtoon, Ran noted that apart from Dragons, Nastika usually weren't interested in humans. Now we can confirm that Nastika in general find mixing with "such an inferior race" to be a total disgrace and loss of pride.

• Booze: Nastika drink. Confirmed! (At least, I'm assuming that the scattered bottles left behind by Ravana contained something other than plain water) Also, while Taksaka always found it a hassle to eat (since Nastika don't need to eat and didn't regain vigor from eating), it seems that partying Nastika do enjoy eating meat.

Edited by Mizura, 07 October 2012 - 12:00 PM.

[GodOfAll]

wow, your dedicated...
that dedication just made my day (took all of it too)

Edited by CodeG, 10 October 2012 - 11:58 AM.

[Ivy]

Er... maybe it's just my computer, but I couldn't find the summary of the epilogue anywhere in this thread. So, what happened is that Tak came back to the sura realm and killed the suras who were laughing at Ian?

[Mizura]

Glad you enjoyed it CodeG!

Ivy: Eh? It's on page 2, post #36. :0 I left placeholders there so that future readers won't have to waddle through comments to find the epilogues. There's still one more epilogue chapter, probably in two weeks. Can't wait!

[Ivy]

Oh, thanks, Mizura! I was so eager to read the epilogue I just gave the posts a quick look.

Maybe Taksaka's transcendental was some sort of ilusion? It reminded me of genjutsus in Naruto.

[Ichypa]

Just had a thought: Visnu can command the Gods to do what he wants, right? Why couldn't he just tell Yama to STFU and extend Ian's lifespan? For that matter, wouldn't it have been more practical to extend her lifespan indefinately, creating a permanent means of corralling Taksaka?