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Current chapter discussion, as per usual


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#1
Purple Library Guy

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Well, I'm increasingly finding this is a manga I follow while griping about it. Maybe not too much longer, we'll see.
But if I'm gonna gripe, I like to be specific, not just lamely saying "Duh, this suuucks!"
And that means spoilers. So I should do it here instead of at the front.

So here we are at ch. 43, and the younger brother, coach's son, guy who underestimates himself, is fighting. And it seems to me likely he's going to win. It'll be pretty much a downer if he doesn't. He plans to retire if he doesn't, his dad will continue to look down on him, he'll just kind of give up on himself as a loser.
But they've made a fairly big deal of the idea that he's naturally an out-boxer, and if he's going to win he should avoid standing up and trading punches. So here we are, and what do we see? He knocks the other guy down when he gets too heedless of his defence, and then he gets knocked down himself, mouthpiece flying. It's a freaking brawl--as usual, because it just has to be about maximum brutality . . . uh, drama . . . every single fight in a boxing/martial arts manga. Every match has to be *&%#ing Rocky, no exceptions allowed.
Would it absolutely kill the mangaka to just once, having done all the setup to that effect, let an out-boxer fight like an out-boxer? Huh? Would it be so terrible if he danced around on the outside, delivered a lot of stinging jabs, and outpointed the guy? Is there some reason that's absolutely forbidden?

OK, editing so as not to be double-posting, ch. 44 now. And so first of all, having not fought like an out-boxer, he lost. Well, fair enough although wanna bet that angle never gets mentioned? And second, you get this section justifying the coach/dad's approach to training and treating his son. I frankly think it's obscene. He treated his kid like shit because he didn't think he was talented, leading to his being self-destructive and bitter, and it's all OK if it stimulated his competitiveness and made him in some fashion tougher? All fine except he couldn't be bothered even to figure out that the kid might be better as an out-boxer and train him that way, see if he had any talent doing that. So clearly his approach wasn't working to make his son a better boxer or a better fighter or a better anything, and certainly not a better person. No doubt somewhere down the road in the manga there will be some form of reconciliation where the kid suddenly realizes everything his dad has done for him, but in real life that's not what happens; in real life this kind of crap breaks people, ruins lives and separates families. It doesn't make people tougher, it makes them more fragile; it doesn't lead to them winning, it leads to them seeing themselves as losers forever in a self-fulfilling prophecy. The dad's philosophy is both repellent and counterproductive.

Edited by Purple Library Guy, 13 February 2012 - 09:14 PM.


#2
您享受安静 YESilence

您享受安静 YESilence

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no one replied for a whole month? :blink: thats kinda sad, the forum should be more active ... or is it that this manga isnt popular?

as for ch 48, it was totally satisfying to see Take get back at that karate dude.

as for buyuden itself, i have to agree with Purple Library Guy.

What's the point of reading this manga if they're actually going to take her (Moka) out of boxing?


female chars, who are strong and interesting like Moka, are rare in mangas and i just hope that she somehow miraculously recovers and returns to boxing.
Otherwise it would get really boring if she just ends up as a "Support"-character for Take.

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When the hope of morning starts to fade in me~ ... I don´t dare let the darkness have its way with me~ ...
And the hope of morning makes me worth the fight~ ... I will not be giving in tonight~ ...

 

 


#3
Partysan

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I agree on the outboxing thing. Maybe the authors just don't want to take the trouble and think about how to make it look exciting, since the Determinator is the default viewpoint in manga generally and fighting manga in particular after all, so there is plently of material and it has been ingrained into the reader's expectations as well. I think it would actually be somewhat refreshing to see boxing from an outboxer's perspective.

I won't go into the dad issue, since you have said it all.

It seems as if Moka will indeed be "demoted" to Take's support. This is a bit disappointing, but oh well... on the other hand, she might also fade into the background even more and not appear that much at all. The more Take got into boxing the less the manga went into their relationship, it might as well be that this development continues. This last chapter could be both a hint at more romance or at closure.
And while we're talking closure, I seriously didn't expect another arc. This somewhat seemed like a nice ending point and I fear that this might degenerate into a standard boxing manga. Which would be sad, since I found the beginning of it rather promising.

#4
Purple Library Guy

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Aaand Moka is going to be the wind beneath his wings. Just remember, kids, girls can't be champs themselves. It's all right for them to try, but they have to be ready to pay the price when God strikes them down, like in Million Dollar Baby. Upbeat triumphant sports stories are strictly about boys, and Moka should have remembered that. Barf.

#5
Jim Eisenberg

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/agree with purple... I hope somehow they make mokata more than what she looks like now, "I wanna be able to cheer you on"... pffff.
On the other hand... if any of you have read Cross Game, by Mitsuru-sensei (all hail Mitsuru-sensei! :P), Aoba is a strong female lead character despite being unable to do baseball cos she's a girl (lol). Who knows. If Mokata had stayed as useless's coach, could be interesting i guess... i dunno. Let's wait n see.
"He also let me know that clocks are still the in thing. That’s reassuring to me, as I was worried the fashion might have changed while I was gone. But no, he continues to point whenever he sees one, announcing to everyone who cares to listen that there is a clock. I agree to this as well, even if that particular clock happens to be, say, a thermometer.

There is an art to conversation, you see, and part of that art is the ability to occasionally let a trifling difference of opinion slide by without making a federal case out of it.

So he says, “Clock,” and I think, Okay. Fair enough. I see your point.

“Clock,” I agree."
Pat Rothfuss, about his (very young) son.

#6
Partysan

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I really don't know how the author is going to salvage this. Probably not at all. Shame, I liked the beginning a lot.

#7
DaburuO

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Time skip...definitely the trend in mangas now...

Oh well, let's see how this goes

#8
wayne

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a bit funny i think. Three years passed and moka got a bit fatty!!! cant wait for new chapter.

#9
Okamiaki

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Nice way of preventing Moka from getting a BF. All girls school and her becoming chubby. At least there is less drama in that section :)

#10
svines85

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great chapter, the worst thing is that now i can't wait to see more. the time fast forward was surprising at first but actually i think it's something of a relief to me in that i was seeing the potential for what i was expecting to be tedious reading of their seperation, Moka's depression, Take being pressured about school so he could resume boxing, and a lost romance between grade school age kids(?). I really don't have any doubt about Moka still being a strong main character, we'll see but i really doubt that she's just going to be turned into some single dimensional "cheerleader", after all the fact of her being superior to him in every way is really where Take's admiration and love for her came from in the first place. But, all that being said, she always has been a support character, this manga is about Take and his growth.

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#11
RandomUser

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i was not expecting Moka gaining weight.
but she'll probably lose most of it after hanging out more with Take.
i really want to see how the rest of the crew is doing.
did they continue boxing, are they part of a school boxing club and went on to be ranked 1st in all of Japan... so many questions.
can't wait for the next chapter.

#12
Random Girl

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lol i was re-reading a few chapters and in chp 9 i found isamu's dream like some kind of preview of the next new chapter XDDD

#13
svines85

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lol i was re-reading a few chapters and in chp 9 i found isamu's dream like some kind of preview of the next new chapter XDDD

not bad, you're right, hopefully we'll see for sure soon

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#14
Purple Library Guy

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OK, again pretty annoying. Sure, she's not in boxing shape and hasn't boxed for a long time, and her extra weight can be expected to slow her down some. But she has been physically active, she's just been eating a lot. It's not realistic for her to be running out of stamina in a street fight after two or three blows. This isn't boxing with gloves, slow accumulation of damage and lots of long rounds; she's been fighting for a few seconds. Shouldn't be a problem, especially with the adrenaline going; in real life it'd be "Go at full speed NOW, feel shaky and tired AFTER". Also if she does connect, her punches should have some pretty decent, well, weight behind them. Gaining weight isn't all bad in a fight.

And, although I can see the structure being set up here (Moka left boxing in despair, Moka got out of shape and lost her Mojo, whatsisname rescues her, maybe gives her a pep talk or an I-can't-believe-you-let-this-happen-to-you speech, and she decides to get back into it at least as exercise so she won't be shown up like that again, yadda yadda) I still find it annoying that she needs rescuing. I'd prefer a more upbeat approach. She'd already said to herself that she should get back into it. I'd rather a structure like (Moka left boxing in despair, Moka started to hate her overweight self and realize how much she left behind, thinks about getting back into it but hesitates, Moka takes those guys down and shows her awesome but has more trouble than in her opinion she should have, decides to get back into it as an affirmation of self-worth, whatsisname witnesses and says he's been waiting for her to return, gives respect).

Basically, I like Moka. I want to her to be awesome not second fiddle to that guy, whose personality never particularly impressed or interested me. I feel like one of the big problems of this manga is the mangaka made up this great female lead and around the time the male lead was supposed to be stepping up, realized he'd have to whittle her way down if that insipid guy was ever going to be able to measure up to her. He's been cutting her down ever since. Pisses me off.

#15
svines85

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yeah, it's true, Moka is kind of getting turned into the "damsel in distress". it started happening big time with her injury but even before Isamu had tried to come to her aid or actually intervened to save her(inside the karate guys house). It's a shonen sports story first (my opinion) and most of them start out with a lead who's weak and learns to be stronger. I think without a doubt that's where we're going. when i think of this type of manga I always think about Eyeshield 21 or Hikaru no Go; weak, unlikeable leads who grow up and change for the better.

Edited by svines85, 12 April 2012 - 09:30 PM.

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#16
Purple Library Guy

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Hikaru no Go was cool; one of the few long and purely non-romance manga I've read all the way to the end. That end felt a bit sudden to me, like the kid's progress arc wasn't quite finished and then bam! the sales/popularity figures were too low so they wrapped it up, or something. A pity, but not enough to spoil the whole thing, which was quite fascinating.

#17
Jim Eisenberg

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Hikaru no go was something special, for sure :D. I think that Moka's personality has changed a lot since the accident, and that's what pisses me off most: she used to be the strong, no-bullshit character, that shines bright compared to the asshole who's supposed to be male lead... and now she seems to have become far more... ordinary. She still goes to save "useless" from the "baddies", but there isn't that kind of... indomitable will thing she had going on. Bah, will see how it evolves I suppose.
"He also let me know that clocks are still the in thing. That’s reassuring to me, as I was worried the fashion might have changed while I was gone. But no, he continues to point whenever he sees one, announcing to everyone who cares to listen that there is a clock. I agree to this as well, even if that particular clock happens to be, say, a thermometer.

There is an art to conversation, you see, and part of that art is the ability to occasionally let a trifling difference of opinion slide by without making a federal case out of it.

So he says, “Clock,” and I think, Okay. Fair enough. I see your point.

“Clock,” I agree."
Pat Rothfuss, about his (very young) son.

#18
svines85

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Great new chapter, but he's still a jerk not recognizing her, I was hoping for more from him personality wise. Story wise though, she didn't want him to recognize her either so I guess that's for the best for now. Next we'll probablly see more reaction from her.

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#19
svines85

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Great new chapter (54), the author is starting to give us some background on what's happened during the time skip. Now we get to find out where everyone else is and what's happened since we saw them last. Should be really good, it looks like the end of the chapter already shows a pretty big surprise dvelopment.

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#20
Senzu15

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Yeah nice development and a chance for the mangak to give this manga new possibilities. But i hope that Moka won't be just another cheering girl. I liked this manga from the start because Moka ( girl) had a more active role here. In most sport mangas the only role for a girl is cheering the main guy or being a manager.

And of course she NEEDS to be thiner so heres a chance for her development:P