25 replies to this topic

[Starbuck]

seems like it was taken off ... why that ? too "ecchi" ? ....

[Colour]

Yes, it is Consider to inappropriate to be on Batoto, However if you would still like to read it I suggest you go to exks Scans Here and DL/read it there.

[Starbuck]

geez, I was expecting something like that.
why do they have to be so stupidly puritan when it comes to eroticism (Nana to Kaoru is NOT hentai), when they are all too happy to host violent and ultra-violent manga ?
In comparison, they don't mind hosting Holy Knight manga. it's not just hentai, it's also explicit rape and ntr

Nana to Kaoru is a really good manga, and it's a shame Batoto is going to lose membership because of that hypocritical policy.

[Terrabane]

I have to actually agree here. I don't understand the whole idea behind locking the series in general other than personal or company policy about the series. If it's personal then it's totally biased and if it is professional then it's simple bias on a different level.
Don''t get me wrong here. I don't give a rat's rectum either way as I have several other places I can go to read the series as well as being the editor on one of them. I just find it, and forgive the use of the repetitive word, biased that a borderline series is blocked while I see several other much more graphic and explicit mangas still being hosted by the site.

[mhh]

Read explanation provided by Trebor here.

Edit: What Trebor says there should explain the 'bias' as you may call it. I personally think that the U.S. standards on morals concerning violence and nudity doesn't make much sense.

Edited by mhh, 14 December 2011 - 09:53 PM.

[FunnyBunnyLogic]

Starbuck, your comments are all along the same rather stale vein . . . "Why should Batoto follow some archaic, declining country's puritan beliefs?" I will respond with simplifying the comments that Mhh, Trebor, and many other members have stated: "The advertiser Batoto uses, to ensure the longevity of the site, requires absolute adherence to its policies."

You ask, "What legal grounds are you following when you remove the sexually-themed comics?" Again, I will point to the U. S. standards that the advertiser demands Batoto adheres to.

Then you ask, "How can blood, gore, and other scary violence be acceptable, but comics that show excessive sexual scenes are banned?" Again, because those are considered acceptable by the advertiser that Batoto uses to ensure that this site will continue.

Further, Batoto does not set the standard, and to constantly accuse and belittle the site because you cannot view sexually graphic content is ridiculous. The demographics of Batoto's readership is moot when it comes to its policies; the only factor that matters,and the only factor that is considered, is whether the series meets the requirements of the advertisers. Does that make sense? Yes. Is it fair? Absolutely. Why do I say that? Because those are the rules we have to work within, and it's fair because it allows many people the chance to read other great series.

You may find this interesting: Up until most recently, when they decided to completely disregard scanlator and publisher policies, NOEZ's site MangaFox had removed most, if not all, of the sexually explicit content to ensure that advertisers would continue their contracts . . . however, in the past few months they have made the previously locked content available to the public. This is something that has not, as of yet, affected their relationship with their advertisers, but I am certain that it will eventually bite them where it counts.

Finally, if you do not like the limits of this site there are alternate means for you to get your fix. You can visit the many sites that cater to your tastes; which includes showing support to the scanlators of your favorite series by visiting their site directly. If you find that you are not inclined to do so, then the only person you have to blame is yourself, and continually badgering and badmouthing this site does nothing more than make you seem like a heedless simpleton.

These are my thoughts, of course, so do with them as you will. Just think before you reply.

[leokiko]

Taking this off was stupid, they should only prohibit hentai mangas, not softcore stuff like this.

[lunamoth]

You are presenting art and/or entertainment, but you appear to be so business-minded that you let advertisers decide what you present. And it doesn't even seem bad to you. It's as if "Advertisers" were the new church that SHOULD control morals. The result of this kind of strictly-business thinking is that, of course, the advertisers will do just that, and since lots of them are based in the moralistic US the end is inevitable.

In a few years this place will be censored down to Disney level. Adults will often be bored. And they will barely even know why they are, because by then advertisers' sanitizing Internet content will be standard procedure. YOU will often be bored, quite likely, but I guess you'll know why you're only getting to see kiddy stuff, so maybe that will make it OK for you.

You have to have lived through the "end state" of this media-censoring trend, as I did growing up in the US in the 50s, to know just how boring, dumb, and unreflective of real adult human life and feelings this kind of advertiser censoring can make media be, if it's not resisted.

[Terrabane]

You are presenting art and/or entertainment, but you appear to be so business-minded that you let advertisers decide what you present. And it doesn't even seem bad to you. It's as if "Advertisers" were the new church that SHOULD control morals. The result of this kind of strictly-business thinking is that, of course, the advertisers will do just that, and since lots of them are based in the moralistic US the end is inevitable.

In a few years this place will be censored down to Disney level. Adults will often be bored. And they will barely even know why they are, because by then advertisers' sanitizing Internet content will be standard procedure. YOU will often be bored, quite likely, but I guess you'll know why you're only getting to see kiddy stuff, so maybe that will make it OK for you.

You have to have lived through the "end state" of this media-censoring trend, as I did growing up in the US in the 50s, to know just how boring, dumb, and unreflective of real adult human life and feelings this kind of advertiser censoring can make media be, if it's not resisted.

While I agree in principal with you're arguement I also see the other side as well. You are a person who is running a site trying your best to adhere to the rules laid down by those who pay the bills. Not all decisions are going to garner popularity or be considered good for the sit ebut it is without a doubt the right course of action.
If you're that adament about being able to read the series you are always capable of going directly to the scanlation groups web page or if failing that using another online reader site for that particular fix. If it helps you can believe I was not at ALL happy when the decision came down and even if I did understand it I was in the part of the populace that didn't like it one little bit.

[raenef]

sure i would like to read it on batoto

and as the scanlator switched and sometimes not even mangaupdates is up to date one is forced to read it else where

we have a series which even an 8 year old can buy and some say hmm shouldnt it be rated?

the problem the staff has is that to keep batoto running they have to obey the rules on their money makers

no money no batoto

it is a big site with a lot of trafic and that means u cannot run it just by some cheap webhoster u can put your personal webpage on

[gundamgundam]

Taking this off was stupid, they should only prohibit hentai mangas, not softcore stuff like this.

According to the Administrator, "objectively, Nana to Kaoru has pretty hardcore stuff.". To quote;

"I can appreciate that you don't agree, but objectively, Nana to Kaoru has pretty hardcore stuff.
[...]
Nano to Kaoru is the guy getting the girl off, and it shows the sexual act in great detail. There is a definite difference there. You can't claim that Nana to Kaoru is the same thing as ecchi or that it's the exact same as other ecchi comic."

-Trebor, Batoto Administrator 'The Hammer of Justice', replying in the topic "Offensive Material".

According to Trebor, The Administrator of batoto, Nana to Kaoru was prohibited precisely because "it has pretty hardcore stuff" and "shows the sexual act in great detail." So yeah, batoto pretty much considers Nana to kaoru a "hentai manga" thus is banned from being posted here.

[General Hentai]

According to the Administrator, "objectively, Nana to Kaoru has pretty hardcore stuff.". To quote;

"I can appreciate that you don't agree, but objectively, Nana to Kaoru has pretty hardcore stuff.
[...]
Nano to Kaoru is the guy getting the girl off, and it shows the sexual act in great detail. There is a definite difference there. You can't claim that Nana to Kaoru is the same thing as ecchi or that it's the exact same as other ecchi comic."

-Trebor, Batoto Administrator 'The Hammer of Justice', replying in the topic "Offensive Material".

According to Trebor, The Administrator of batoto, Nana to Kaoru was prohibited precisely because "it has pretty hardcore stuff" and "shows the sexual act in great detail." So yeah, batoto pretty much considers Nana to kaoru a "hentai manga" thus is banned from being posted here.

I'm sorry... but I have to ask:

WHAT SEXUAL ACT?

Really, I mean where? This is a manga that hasn't even shown female nipples. Masturbation? Nope. Handjobs? Nope. Nudity? Nope. Intercourse? Nope. Oral? Nope.

[halderiado]

Read explanation provided by Trebor here.

Edit: What Trebor says there should explain the 'bias' as you may call it. I personally think that the U.S. standards on morals concerning violence and nudity doesn't make much sense.

Don't lump everyone in the U.S. together with that. Just like everywhere else, those kind of things are very different from person to person.

[Junoh315]

Nana To Kaoru Arashi makes sense but even the original series? The original series has nothing objectional.

[svines85]

Nana To Kaoru Arashi makes sense but even the original series? The original series has nothing objectional.

And as far as the restriction of what is too mature for Batoto? Perhaps I can clarify the restrictions a bit more.

Sexual acts.

• Definition. ​"Sexual acts," "sex scenes," "sexual conduct," "sexual content" shall mean any scene that:
  
• involves the penetration of the anus or vagina with any object,
• involves the contact of the genitalia with any other part of a character's body,
• involves the contact of the breasts with any other part of a character's body,
• involves BDSM,
• involves bodily fluids in a sexually suggestive manner, or
• is sexually suggestive in any other way.

Children.

• Definition. "Child," "children," and "minor" shall be defined to be any character that:
  
• is stated to be 17 years old or younger or
• appears to be 17 years old or younger.

*The above is all quoted from the thread "Not sure about a comic? ask if appropriate here....."

http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/2977-not-sure-about-a-comic-ask-if-appropriate-here/

I follow NtK and Arashi, but the rules here are pretty specific as to why neither would or will be allowed here. Those are the two points that I've seen cited most often about why it's not allowed.........oh well, it is what it is, rules are rules.

Edited by svines85, 09 December 2012 - 08:34 PM.

[rickblah]

I say we witch hunt the site for anything that falls into those guidelines and see what we have left. your pretty much gonna blow away half of the shoujo genre and then the same for anything marked senien and josei. sigh. . . ohh well guess you leave out the middle man and go straight to the source like a true business minded person would. Long live the scantilators btw try http://prettyanonymo.us/ if you want to read it.

[berubetto]

Since protecting this site's existence is a major consideration, I think the line they walk has to do with what catches the attention of advertisers & those who complain to advertisers, plus some pre-filtering.

 

Do you remember what happened to... Er... 100manga, &c., when someone brought the existence of Dance in the Vampire Bund to the attention of the general public? The main character is a fake loli (a category I was the first to add to Mangaupdates.com under a different username, BTW, during all that frustration--I'm a little proud of how well & quickly that was liked, though I haven't mentioned it before elsewhere), but all the general public could see was child porn.

 

So DitVB was taken down. Other, cruder, crueler manga were left up, precisely because no one noticed them.

 

It would be great if there could be a sister site... Batatas, perhaps... But the people who run this site probably would need dedicated, proven outside help for that, plus a server in.... Russia? Dunno. And a way for it to not reflect badly on and thereby cause problems for the main site. Plus, probably, a lot more problems solved than you or I would ever think of from our armchair speechifying.

[blindbox]

Since protecting this site's existence is a major consideration, I think the line they walk has to do with what catches the attention of advertisers & those who complain to advertisers, plus some pre-filtering.

 

Do you remember what happened to... Er... 100manga, &c., when someone brought the existence of Dance in the Vampire Bund to the attention of the general public? The main character is a fake loli (a category I was the first to add to Mangaupdates.com under a different username, BTW, during all that frustration--I'm a little proud of how well & quickly that was liked, though I haven't mentioned it before elsewhere), but all the general public could see was child porn.

 

So DitVB was taken down. Other, cruder, crueler manga were left up, precisely because no one noticed them.

 

It would be great if there could be a sister site... Batatas, perhaps... But the people who run this site probably would need dedicated, proven outside help for that, plus a server in.... Russia? Dunno. And a way for it to not reflect badly on and thereby cause problems for the main site. Plus, probably, a lot more problems solved than you or I would ever think of from our armchair speechifying.

 

Sorry for reviving a dead topic. Grumpy mentioned that he planned for an adult-oriented Batoto. 2 years later, nothing came out.

 

My advice: stop hoping and get your manga elsewhere. That's what I've been doing. I keep a separate reading list for whatever batoto has banned. Google Drive helps a lot in this matter, as they also have an integrated spreadsheet. I won't go to mangafox or anything but instead will go straight to the scanlator's site or keep myself updated with Mangatraders.

 

Regardless of my advice.. I still hope that one day... one day we will have the adult-oriented Batoto site, seeing that this site has been a one-stop central for scanlators and readers, akin to how Fakku and exhentai/e-hentai being a central place for scanlators and readers of hentai.

Edited by blindbox, 09 July 2013 - 10:25 AM.

[svines85]

......................yeah, can't resist sharing this one, from the new (37) chapter of Arashi

 

 

this is tame enough to not get me into trouble, right?

[kitsunespirit]

America's puritanical stance on sex has always been laughable at best, "Boobs and sex are the spawn of satan, but chopping someones head off and spraying a room with gore and blood? Why that's doing god's work! Yeeehaw!!"

 

-- This from someone who lives in a redneck area of Michigan 80% of their life, and the other 20% in the deep South.

 

Seeing this sort of ass-backwards moralistic logic on a manga site that hosts stuff worse than Nana to Kaoru or even Super Sadistic Sister is rather disheartening. If your advertiser is that offended by something that isn't even that explicit (I read it before when it wasn't banned), perhaps you should get another advertiser?

 

I'm not going to leave the site, I will just go elsewhere to read the manga you guys willy-nilly ban because your advertisers are pansies... for the rest, I will read the stuff here.