27 replies to this topic

[nert5]

Lets say there is this group and it is inactive. While they were still operating they had a strict no hosting policy. They never lifted this policy before they became inactive so it is still in effect. How long does it take before it is fine to ignore that policy?

[Valéria]

If they have already disbanded (is that the right word, I wonder) their rules are not valid anymore, I think. You should be allowed to post whenever you want, they wouldn't complain about it anymore.

Btw, isn't this topic in the wrong place?

Edited by Valéria, 10 December 2011 - 01:22 PM.

[mhh]

Moved to Group Hosting Policies.

As of now I'm not aware of any definite policy on that subject. Until a policy is made decisions will have to be made case by case.

It makes a difference to me, if for example the group members are still around or the websites are still up.

I'll try to get an agreement and a definite on this matter as soon as I can.

[hero]

it would be better if there was a topic for such things, so that every one can ask in that topic if it is ok to post the manga, because the group is inactive/disbanded.

[Grumpy]

It does not.

But an already inactive group is treated more leniently because it's impossible to confirm anything with them.

[hados9]

Well Unofficially Scanlation groups are classified as inactive after 6 months without a release and its the same with a manga if it hasn't been released for 6 months with raws available it is classed as a manga without a group (dropped manga) and according to what you said the second the become inactive you should be able to host the work of that group

Edited by hados9, 11 December 2011 - 12:53 AM.

[Grumpy]

... according to what you said the second the become inactive you should be able to host the work of that group

No, that's the opposite of what I said.

[hados9]

No, that's the opposite of what I said.

lol i wasnt talking about you i was talking about nert5 said but its ok

[hero]

so let’s say, a group disbands, they also announce that they will disband, can now someone post their manga or not?

[nert5]

I think the wishes of any group (active or inactive) should be followed until they are changed by the group. If a group became inactive three years ago but never lifted the ban then ten years from now those items shouldn't be uploaded.

I just wanted to know where you stand on this issue because I have seen an inactive group with a no hosting policy that has had its projects uploaded on batoto.

[mhh]

It all depends on the reasons the groups deny re-hosting. For example many groups who have no hosting policies for other mangareaders don't have one for Batoto. And some that have denied re-hosting in the past but could/would have given us permission. Some groups for example deny because they don't want more exposure than necessary, but if they aren't around anymore it's not like they can be exposed to anything.

Since policies need to be short, clear and at the same time cover as much as possible the result of which can be quite abstract in nature so it'lll take a bit more time to even put something into words - and of course I will need to consult the Administrators and the other Moderators about it as well but I promise to work on a policy on regarding this subject.

P.S.: nert5 welcome to Batoto and thanks for your constructive participation in the fourms!

Edit: For policy see what Grumpy stated below.

Edited by mhh, 16 December 2011 - 11:41 AM.

[Colour]

Hmm I was curious about this because the manga I was uploading had another group take over and start Scanlating it around the 6th Volume. However that group is now Inactive and there Website and IRC have both been removed.

I assume this would be ok to Upload?

[Trebor]

Colour: Probably. The only reason that I can see why this is not okay is if they put DO NOT UPLOAD all over the comic. But if that is not the case, then yes, it is okay to upload.

[nert5]

What if they have a working site that states the policy but are just inactive? They may not be around but you can still see how they felt about these things at the time they stopped.

[Grumpy]

I've already said the policy.

Whether or not they're active or not is irrelevant. Their rule stands to the end of time.

Problem is that we have no way to verify something once they're long gone and we have the default rule of "allowed". If their status is confirmed as not allowed and they've disappeared or w/e, it's still not allowed.

[Trebor]

I think the wishes of any group (active or inactive) should be followed until they are changed by the group. If a group became inactive three years ago but never lifted the ban then ten years from now those items shouldn't be uploaded.

I just wanted to know where you stand on this issue because I have seen an inactive group with a no hosting policy that has had its projects uploaded on batoto.

Can you just name the groups? I think dealing with concrete examples will cause less confusion than hypotheticals.

If what you said is true, then that is a mistake that the comic is uploaded, but it is not the policy of Batoto. One important thing to remember is that regular users upload to the site, so mistakes will happen. Or, sometimes we have gotten special permission from groups, so we're not actually violating any policy at all.

[nert5]

Condensation

[Grumpy]

Condensation

Deleted all of them. Next time, please be specific from the start. ^^;;

[berubetto]

Note: I searched first to see if you'd already considered something like this. If I missed it, sorry about that. Just let me know!

What about offering a vault-type option? In case of closure plus communication failure, you'd be able to post scans from groups who otherwise say no? I think that would be respectful to groups that want fans to go to their site. Plus, it would also reassure and in the long run help the fans that don't want to go to sites that don't listen to groups (You Know Who I Mean). Something like:

"Do not upload. ScanGroup has agreed to let Batoto upload their scans if they are inactive for X months/years and/or they no longer have a site and/or forum. Click here to report if you think these conditions have been met for ScanGroup."

Any group that agrees to this would also agree you could take their scans out of the vault if they announce they will be closing.

Obviously most groups would not use all of those and/or-clauses. To clarify, here's what you might ask a group interested in a vault clause (or whatever you want to call it):

Spoiler

(Intro/explanation/blah blah blah.) If you agree, please select one or more of the following options. Please notify us if you change your mind or if we make a mistake and think that you are closed (for reasons such as not finding the new way to contact you in time if you moved your site and shut down your old one).

Your scans will be posted when you announce you are closing or (in case your lives get busy and your group ends without an announcement) when the following has been confirmed:

1. You have not made a release in X months/years and your group cannot be reached.

2. Your site has been shut down for X weeks/months/years and your group cannot be reached.

3. Your forum is shut down or apparently inactive (except for spam) for X weeks/months/years and your group cannot be reached.

Thanks for participating!

I originally put in an option about a domain lapsing (inspired by wanting to read Hakkenden tonight but Bliss can't be found, alas!), but I think that's covered by a site shutting down. FYI in case I'm wrong.

Thanks for everyone's hard work! Hope this helps. If not, well, I wasn't doing anything tonight, anyway.

[hero]

What about offering a vault-type option? In case of closure plus communication failure, you'd be able to post scans from groups who otherwise say no? I think that would be respectful to groups that want fans to go to their site. Plus, it would also reassure and in the long run help the fans that don't want to go to sites that don't listen to groups (You Know Who I Mean). Something like:

grumpy once said, that if a group said no to hosting their scans and then they closed it will stay as no.