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Romanji for main title

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#1
SushiAddiction

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​This may create some drama :/

​Make a rule that Romanji title is preferred. Info should be taken from mangaupdates (baka-updates). Maybe add a note on the manga submission form.

​The number of manga using English name as the main title is slowly increasing. (katakana titles with literal translation to english is fine)

​Romanji of title is not always added to Alt Names. Luckily the original name containing Kanji is.

​This makes things difficult in several ways.

​- English titles often vary making it possible not to find a manga

​- Baka-updates is the source most people use so when it's not used as a reference it makes things much harder

- There is no consistency

​- English names often aren't a translation of the Japanese. Too many times they add some random part to the name or change it completely.

​- Almost all other sites use romanji so looking up a name you know could result in an english name you could not recognise or it won't be found because Alt Titles does not have romanji name.

​My fallback is to go to baka-updates and get the original Japanese name(kanji) and use that to search on batoto.

​To me it seems like batoto is the only site where this is o.k., to use english names as main title.


Edited by SushiAddiction, 09 October 2017 - 09:28 PM.

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#2
Daktyl

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1. It's spelled "romaji"

 

2. Setting a preferred title format is a possibly good idea, though one that would have to be discussed by all the mods who then have to enforce such a rule upon the literally tens of thousands of comics we have on the site. Still, I'll bring it up.

 

3. If you see a series that does not have the romaji title in the alt. names, you can add it yourself by clicking the Edit button below the comic's cover image.

 

As an aside, I'd like to know series which you claim have English titles that aren't translations of of the Japanese (whether with words added or completely wrong) as I haven't really seen any of that.


Edited by Daktyl, 10 October 2017 - 03:44 AM.

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#3
SushiAddiction

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​1. Yes, brain damage :/

​3. Yes, I've done that a few times

​About

series which you claim have English titles that aren't translations of of the Japanese (whether with words added or completely wrong) as I haven't really seen any of that.

 

​I can't remember because of mentioned brain damage

- ​It has happened 3-4 times when a name in english was hard to spot in the search list

- a few times where there were no results but I did eventually find it searching kanji. I then added romaji to Alt Names.

 

Found an example, not the worst, it could still be found by recognising Duke's Daughter

https://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/simply-good-taste-for-a-dukes-daughter-r17720

https://www.mangaupdates.com/series.html?id=131748

​Main

Simply Good Taste for a Duke's Daughter

 
 
Alt Names
Accomplishments of the Duke's Daughter
公爵千金的爱好
公爵令嬢の嗜み
Common Sense of a Duke’s Daughter
Kōshaku Reijō no Tashinami
Koshaku Reijo no Tashinami
Koushaku Reijou no Tashinami *
Simply Good Sense for a Duke’s Daughter

 
I only know a little a Japanese
 
 
 
たしなみ 《嗜み》 (n) (1) (uk) taste (in goods, etc.); (2) (uk) manners; etiquette; (3) (uk) modesty; restraint; prudence; (4) (uk) knowledge, experience (of the arts, etc.); accomplishments; (5) (uk) taking care of one's personal appearance
公爵令嬢の嗜み
​So, Duke's Daughter (whatever)
"​Simply good" is just added.
​There have also been a few times when the wrong romaji is used. I can't remember them but here is an example. This is probably because the original in a blank entry
​I think another manga entry left out "u" seeing ō as just "o" instead of "ou
I understand there are too many to look through and fix. I can't even remember what titles were wrong. That's why I suggested from now on adding a note on manga submission form "main title from mangaupdates should be used". That way is does not continue and get worse over time.

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#4
OMGWTFBBQPONIES

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I think the majority of manhua an manhwa (chinese and korean) have the main title in english because hardly anyone among your average western manga readers knows how to read these (as opposed to the old tradition of generating otaku interested in learning at least basic japanese).

 

AFAIK in case of manga, more groups have preference to rely on the translated english title in case of short stories and oneshots, and lean towards japanese ones otherwise. I think the former used to be true in case of yuri/yaoi too, but I'm not 100% sure of that and don't know the current situation either. There is also the preference of romaji because of it being more error-proof and usually what's on baka, but it's not a hard rule and the main title shouldn't affect the searchability of a work as long as both the english and the romaji or kanji titles are present (then there are exceptions like obscure oneshots the translator never gave the original name of and even on baka no one bothered to find the japanese name of theirs).

 

Then there are some non-asian, non-japanese comics here too, and with self-published works the authors are free to choose whatever title they want for their comic.

------

two threads about it (the latter is just an old thread with users discussing japanese vs english preferences) :

https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/26439-what-is-the-official-policy-regarding-series-metadata/
http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/20055-manga-titles-japanese-or-english/

-------

and small correction to what daktyl said: alt title and genre edits are available directly on the comic page (blue pencil icon), everything else is behind the edit button (but you seem to be already aware of it)

 

 

======

fake edit:

about duke's daughter, seems to be a case of a small edit war over 2 years, with various uploaders and a few random users changing it to whatever title they prefer, and with the initially used one being in japanese.

not necessarily the case here, but there are always some users that want to align everything to one spectrum and have a habit of changing the main titles if they seem out of place to them (although I think the romaji preference is still relatively more common there).

ah, it reminds me I forgot to lock the voting thread I started for some comic to let the readers pick the title they want themselves .-. this comic could use one too I guess...

 

the duplicate comic you're right in that someone forgot to search and/or didn't know how to edit and just added a new entry with a bad title to get it through (you get an error if you try to add something with an exact same title as something already in the database, hence some shorter titles get the author's name added in parentheses, and duplicates may have misspellings in them). duplicates are against the rules though and users are encouraged to report these in the dedicated thread in the quality assurance subforum


Edited by OMGWTFBBQPONIES, 10 October 2017 - 07:38 AM.

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#5
SushiAddiction

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​ah, it reminds me I forgot to lock the voting thread I started for some comic to let the readers pick the title they want themselves .-. this comic could use one too I guess...

 

https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/27727-vote-japanese-vs-english-title/

​I wrote in that thread

 

 

​Romanji of Japanese name makes it easy to find as english titles are usually never set and can have slight variations. I've not found manga on batoto because of this variation and had to add/edit names myself.

​Some want english but people who have to reference names, always want the Japanese name.

​I think it's like subbed vs dubbed movies. Same split. In some countries subbed is preferred, like mine. While others are allergic to subs and are almost always dubbed.

​Me, I stop using sites once the english names get too high. There are too many times when I can't be sure if what I'm looking for is there or not.

seems this has been going on for a while. Which is no surprise.

​Edit wars :D Reflected in the survey.

​I noticed the problem when first filling My List and then doing this https://vatoto.com/forums/topic/28252-isekai-list/and using manga updates. It probably does not have a huge effect on 99.99% of users and I like consistency.

I'm a little bias too. AniDB created some OCD tendencies which I brought with me now that I'm reading manga. Baka-updates is the same.

​>>> another https://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/tensei-shitara-kendeshita-r20338title should be tensei shitara ken deshita. I could not find that but enventually did after several searches. I then added the correct name to Alt Names.

​I'm guessing that "It's not that bad so no action needed" is the solution. Which I understand, even if the inconsistency plays against my "keep things in order" nature.


Edited by SushiAddiction, 10 October 2017 - 09:08 AM.

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#6
SushiAddiction

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​>>> https://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/ascendance-of-a-bookworm-r18488

​made up name here


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#7
rpapo

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I'd like to know series which you claim have English titles that aren't translations of of the Japanese (whether with words added or completely wrong) as I haven't really seen any of that.

Classic example: Karin => Chibi Vampire.  There is absolutely no way you can get from any of the Japanese text to the English name "Chibi Vampire".  It was entirely made up.  

 

Another example: Boku no Marie => Metal Angel Marie.  Again, no relationship.  Somebody wanted a cool sounding name for the translation.



#8
OMGWTFBBQPONIES

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Classic example: Karin => Chibi Vampire.  There is absolutely no way you can get from any of the Japanese text to the English name "Chibi Vampire".  It was entirely made up.  
 
Another example: Boku no Marie => Metal Angel Marie.  Again, no relationship.  Somebody wanted a cool sounding name for the translation.

or ghost in the shell or detective conan/case closed, but these are cases of publishing localisations (i.e. official releases using a title that the publisher thinks will sell - though detective conan iirc is about a copyright conflict with conan the barbarian) and I think he meant titles that get the main title as english on batoto and aren't official

​>>> https://vatoto.com/comic/_/comics/ascendance-of-a-bookworm-r18488
​made up name here

seems like "Bookworm's Ascendance" is a close enough translation of "Honzuki no Gekokujou" and it's just the excessively long subtitle that's missing?

 

switched that kendeshita thing; B-U lists the joint words as the sole option for the novel version so I guess that's where it came from.


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#9
Natureboy

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On the shallow premise that what Batoto hosts is the original contribution of the scanlation group, not a pirate copy of something published elsewhere, whatever group first pursues the scanlation ought to get to choose the primary/main title for their translation.

 

That ignores the problem of translations into multiple languages being hosted on the same comic page. It also sort of minimizes the importance of the original art--most of which is shared among all different versions of the comic, including the original publication. 

 

Being sure to include as an alternate title one or both of the title in the original language and character set, and a romanization of said title, does seem like a reasonable request.  It also provides some potential sales support for the original publication.