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Aircraft is exist in Youjo senki universe, why do they still need mages?


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#1
al_pacino

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if they need them for Arty observer, don't aircraft is qualified enough to do the jobs? not to mention everybody could use it, just need training. no mana needed. was it to provide additional CAS (Close Air Support) for ground troops? but again, don't aircraft is well qualified enough to do CAS instead?

 

I know one would be screwed if they dare to question logic in manga and anime (if we want reality, we go to 3D. don't need to waste time in 2D world). but I can't help but asking this, since this series so far is quite logical enough



#2
Keijon

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Iguess because mages have maneuverability closer to something like a helicopter? Hot baloons were widely used for quite a while for observing enemies because they can be stationary in the air, like mages can. Also, if we consider that the manga is using aircraft similar to those from WW1 (which explains the power of artillery there, as advanced bombers can pretty much accomplish the same thing as artillery except better), they're just not that advanced or even very useful in a large scale.



#3
Moremuffin

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Largely the adaptability of a flight mage to multiple combat roles vs the similar cost of training a pilot of the recon plane that can only fill one role with a significant extra cost for the plane itself. It's down to pure economic feasibility. Why use the more expensive option when you're a small country,surrounded on all sides, with limited resources?


Edited by Moremuffin, 15 January 2017 - 05:11 AM.


#4
yariel

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...

1. Quality, speed and Movement of Aircraft and Mages is totally different ...

2. Mages can do stealth and less noticeable by size and sound ...

3. Attack power, radius and accuracy of Mages get upperhand in most situation ...



#5
Necro-

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also aircraft in ww1 were not very viable until later in the war.



#6
ultimatehaki

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...
1. Quality, speed and Movement of Aircraft and Mages is totally different ...
2. Mages can do stealth and less noticeable by size and sound ...
3. Attack power, radius and accuracy of Mages get upperhand in most situation ...


Also mages are cheaper than building aircrafts constantly that will just get shot down easily due to poor maneuverability.

#7
Guest_MidoriKitzune_von_Kartoffel

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if they need them for Arty observer, don't aircraft is qualified enough to do the jobs? not to mention everybody could use it, just need training. no mana needed. was it to provide additional CAS (Close Air Support) for ground troops? but again, don't aircraft is well qualified enough to do CAS instead?

 

I know one would be screwed if they dare to question logic in manga and anime (if we want reality, we go to 3D. don't need to waste time in 2D world). but I can't help but asking this, since this series so far is quite logical enough

Two reasons.

 

1. Mages are more mobile. They're like war helicopters of the modern times. The planes they have are more like WW2 plans. Scrap paper ones.

 

2. Mages are cheaper. What? Yes they are. Just make that orb, have them some comfy warm clothing and that magic propelant. And they're ready to go after a bit training. Planes take many enginers, resources and keep on adding cost. The first planes where there only to "scare" the enemy. The main reason the bombs that dropped made that "UIIIIiiiiiiii....BOOOMM" sound was psychological warfare. The first times gunfire was used in battles, it's main force was smoke and sound. And knowing that the next bullet could hit you, even if you're far away. AND one bullet kille dyou then. Regardless where it hit. Camp surgeons made sure of that ... and bacteria.



#8
Tehhead

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mages is a byproduct of tools we don't have in this world, i think from how the writer imply, there were many human who have ability to be mages, but they don't have the talent or the knowledge to do magic, so instead of teaching them how to use their "mana"? to do something, they made tools that can be used with mana to achieve consistent result/action

 

and aircraft is still useful because not all people are mages and mages infantry are sorta limited, and mages have limit on how high they can go up the air, miraculous degurechaff manage to achieve 12000 foot? normal mages with normal magic reactor is at 6000 foot, and aircraft can easily achieve 20k foot without any harm to its user



#9
The Mooman

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How's this? If magic users were to pop out now. Do you think countries all around wouldn't use them alongside the aircrafts?



#10
Cupcakeman2nd

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Well it was mentioned in the manga that Flight Mages are a new technology, also not everyone is magic capable and judging from how its explained that mages are a minority in the population so its natural for the military to develop other means of dominating the sky and its also mentioned that planes can go higher than a mage so bombers,spy planes that mages can't reach would still be essential and not to mention Air transport 

 

now the better question is why not have mages be inside armored planes be all "Death from above" like those american C-130s that would definitely be brutal and if interceptor planes comes mages would just step out and shoot them down and come back in to recharge,resupply and rest



#11
PerfectDeath

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I'd simply say that it is because mages are immune to bullets (so long as they can keep their barrier up).  The Gun is no longer a great equalizer since you need a mage to defeat another mage.



#12
Space Penguin

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I'd simply say that it is because mages are immune to bullets (so long as they can keep their barrier up).  The Gun is no longer a great equalizer since you need a mage to defeat another mage.

Not really. Its mentioned later on that anti-aircraft guns can kill mages and are used against Tanya and her battaltion. Due to sheer size of shells and volume of fire.



#13
Miralisque

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I'd simply say that it is because mages are immune to bullets (so long as they can keep their barrier up).  The Gun is no longer a great equalizer since you need a mage to defeat another mage.

 

 

Not really. Its mentioned later on that anti-aircraft guns can kill mages and are used against Tanya and her battaltion. Due to sheer size of shells and volume of fire.

Page 514 of volume 2 says that normally a mage's protection can take a single 12.7mm (.50 cal) shot, but it depends. It can be broken by saturation of small arms fire, but it can also hold up against a 40mm artillery shell if the mage is fully concentrated on defense.

 

Meanwhile, our MC with T95 can bounce 88mm shells off.



#14
Space Penguin

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Page 514 of volume 2 says that normally a mage's protection can take a single 12.7mm (.50 cal) shot, but it depends. It can be broken by saturation of small arms fire, but it can also hold up against a 40mm artillery shell if the mage is fully concentrated on defense.

 

Meanwhile, our MC with T95 can bounce 88mm shells off.

So anti-aircraft guns can kill them. MC has special jewel and more magic. She's different from the rest.



#15
watem

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It is explained in the books at one point that below 6000 feet mages reign supreme. So mages are certainly better in most aspects, except for quantity and max altitude. They mainly fill the role of low altitude interceptors and CAS

Edited by watem, 02 April 2017 - 01:16 AM.


#16
gothicshark

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if they need them for Arty observer, don't aircraft is qualified enough to do the jobs? not to mention everybody could use it, just need training. no mana needed. was it to provide additional CAS (Close Air Support) for ground troops? but again, don't aircraft is well qualified enough to do CAS instead?

 

I know one would be screwed if they dare to question logic in manga and anime (if we want reality, we go to 3D. don't need to waste time in 2D world). but I can't help but asking this, since this series so far is quite logical enough

Multifold reasons. 

 

1: Mages are cheaper in the long run. 

 

Mages require going to boot-camp and schooling, they require little else. 

Airplanes  need to be manufactured, they require special areas for runways, they require fuel, which is a valuable commodity in combat. They also need specially trained ground crews for maintenance, and specially trained flight crews. 

 

2: Mages are more maneuverable, and precise. 

3: Mages are silent, airplanes are very loud, I mean very very very loud. 

 

Bonus: mages preform the same services that special forces would provide in our world, plus they can fly themselves. 



#17
Belruel

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Paratroopers and similar airborne infantry were incredibly powerful in the wars leading up to WW2, to the point that many armies developed paratrooper programs following Italian/Soviet successes in the later stages of WW1, and the Germans further refined the tactics as part of their blitzkrieg tactics during WW2, and the Americans developed the famed EZ company.

 

Mages serve a similar role, except you have airborne infantry who can become airborne again, in enemy territory, without the need of an airstrip. True, they can't travel as far as an airplane after, but that kind of mobility would be unparalleled even in the post-modern military.


Edited by Belruel, 05 August 2017 - 07:20 PM.


#18
Fantasy-Magician

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if they need them for Arty observer, don't aircraft is qualified enough to do the jobs? not to mention everybody could use it, just need training. no mana needed. was it to provide additional CAS (Close Air Support) for ground troops? but again, don't aircraft is well qualified enough to do CAS instead?

 

I know one would be screwed if they dare to question logic in manga and anime (if we want reality, we go to 3D. don't need to waste time in 2D world). but I can't help but asking this, since this series so far is quite logical enough

 

I suppose this topic is more about aircraft VS Flight mage... because we don't have magic in our war I suppose aircraft could cover those jobs. However the problem lies with aircraft in their era isn't as advanced as the present in our world to be as combat effective as Mages. By Tanya's description in chapter 7, Mages has superior agility and mobility over all kind of forces in Imperial Army's arsenal and this is proven especially in their 203's inspection parade. Their air acrobat rival modern aircraft, and not to mention as arty observer... Mages are smaller target that could easily evade anti-air weapons, and also can make decoys. Unless they're hunted by their fellow mage, other kind of enemy forces would be hard pressed to hunt down an airborne mage. 

Same reason for CAS, I think chapter 4-5 shows in short distance battle aircraft is sitting ducks when unprotected against mages. Flight mages, again in Tanya's description in chapter 7 has firepower of artillery. Well, there's their spell called 'artillery'  

 

The upside of Aircraft in their era is... as machine obviously they can cover longer distance, and strangely not as obvious 'due to not emitting mana' so they would be undetected. Also... as mentioned, everyone who learn can pilot the plane. 

Not really. Its mentioned later on that anti-aircraft guns can kill mages and are used against Tanya and her battaltion. Due to sheer size of shells and volume of fire.

Yeah, that's true and Tanya also lament about how no matter how tough her mage's shell is she would say no to testing it against any weapon with unspecified piercing power. 

It won't matter much if they're agile enough to dodge and out of firing range. In their parade Tanya seems to emphasize 'dodging' a lot LOL for her wing. Unless they're under order to stand by and delay like in anime EP 08, anti-craft gun while a threat is still manageable for Tanya's wing. Dunno about other mages though, Tanya's men is the cream of the crop after all. 



#19
Iromania

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Well it was mentioned in the manga that Flight Mages are a new technology, also not everyone is magic capable and judging from how its explained that mages are a minority in the population so its natural for the military to develop other means of dominating the sky and its also mentioned that planes can go higher than a mage so bombers,spy planes that mages can't reach would still be essential and not to mention Air transport 

 

now the better question is why not have mages be inside armored planes be all "Death from above" like those american C-130s that would definitely be brutal and if interceptor planes comes mages would just step out and shoot them down and come back in to recharge,resupply and rest

 

If you stick them with air planes, it'll limit their operations to only areas with friendly airfields and fuel. And you'll also need lots of support staff to take care of the engines and maintenance of the planes.

 

Whereas if you have an all-mage battalion, you can go anywhere, anytime without any preparations very quickly. The only supplies you need is some food and you're good to go. (even that is capturable from the enemy). It's pretty much ideal for a rapid response team that can perform all roles very well with no downsides.

 

There's also no need for "armoured" planes as the mages are already much tougher than aircraft. They can take a direct hit from an artillery shell with their barrier and still come out alive. (No plane can do that)

Heck, its better to evade the enemy shots altogether rather than been cooped up inside slow sitting duck transport planes, even if they have some extra armour.



#20
Miralisque

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They can take a direct hit from an artillery shell with their barrier and still come out alive. (No plane can do that)

That's anime-only. In the LN the average mages are vulnerable to heavy machine guns.