4 replies to this topic

[Akilovescookies]

Hey there!

 

I couldn't find a topic about this, so I just made a new one. If I missed an existing post, please re-direct me there~

 

I was wondering how to get mangas to display in the long strip format (that shows all pages of a chapter in one long strip instead of having them one image per page and needing to click 'next' to get to the following images).

 

It is possible somehow because there are mangas, like Koi Inu, that can be read in the long strip or single page format.

A big reason why people read on other sites is that a majority prefers to read their mangas in the long-strip format and cannot (don't know) how to read them that way on batoto. While there are ways to manipulate your browser to show them that way by using some browser add-ons, there obviously is such a feature for the site too. However I couldn't figure out how to switch it, either in the "reader role" or in the "uploader role".

As a reader, you will only get the option for long-strip format on some mangas but cannot generally activate or deactivate the feature according to your own preferences for all mangas. I thought that maybe you had to 'allow' this option when uploading a chapter but did not see such a feature while I was uploading chapters either.

 

I'd really like to know why some mangas get the long strip format feature but others don't and how one can switch to that format generally. Is it an upload process thing? Do image sizes matter? If so, I haven't found a single post that would shed light into the mystery.

 

If this is a feature that needs to be activated while uploading the chapter by someone with contributor status, then I strongly suggest to change it, because -obviously- the system is not working right now.

 

I created a post asking for contributor status and later on was curious about how long it would take for my request to be reviewed. The last active 'reviewing' of contributor requests happened in July. That's nearly half a year.

 

While I do realize that you need time to review the requests, I also question the sense of not reviewing them and spending time reviewing chapter uploads instead. When thinking about it rationally one would think that it'd make more sense to spend time on reviewing the contributor status requests than using it on chapter uploads as those would often be done by those that have been asking for a status upgrade anyways. Due to the nature of how a proper contributor status request looks like, if done correctly, that should be pretty time efficient as well compared to clicking through ~30 pages for each new uploaded chapter.  It's a pretty grim outlook, if one can only hope for a status change within the next half year to full year even though you've already fulfilled the requirements.

 

There's not much sense in requiring 10 chapters to be successfully uploaded before, if you don't review the status change requests in a timely fashion. This is not supposed to sound unthankful or know-it-all-like, but it raises the question if the forum work priorities are properly divided.  You will spend the time and effort needed to review one status request multiple times on chapter uploads instead without there being a need in a lot of cases because they're done by those people anyways. The way it's handled right now is totally time-inefficient. So I'd like to propose a change there.

[OMGWTFBBQPONIES]

everything on a single page = korean webtoons (because they're made to be read via scrolling) and I guess any self-published stuff that considers itself a webtoon = webtoon mode set per comic (applies to all chapters uploaded to it). check the comic edit page
normal comics = no webtoon mode and currently it's not allowed to set it for them

if you check the suggestions subforum:
https://vatoto.com/forums/forum/128-suggestions/
you'll find 20-40 different threads about it, some with explanations why it's like that, some with discussions for and against implementing it for everything, some linking to these two

don't have time to dig out descriptive ones atm

also not sure if there's been any update on viability of it since the reader switch, so maybe grumpy could comment on it again.

 

contributor requests are sadly stuck because you need an admin to take care of them and the one taking care of it is M.I.A. / buried under loads of busy life stuff afaik.
 

Edited by OMGWTFBBQPONIES, 27 November 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Akilovescookies]

everything on a single page = korean webtoons (because they're made to be read via scrolling) and I guess any self-published stuff that considers itself a webtoon = webtoon mode set per comic (applies to all chapters uploaded to it). check the comic edit page
normal comics = no webtoon mode and currently it's not allowed to set it for them

if you check the suggestions subforum:
https://vatoto.com/forums/forum/128-suggestions/
you'll find 20-40 different threads about it, some with explanations why it's like that, some with discussions for and against implementing it for everything, some linking to these two
don't have time to dig out descriptive ones atm
also not sure if there's been any update on viability of it since the reader switch, so maybe grumpy could comment on it again.
 
contributor requests are sadly stuck because you need an admin to take care of them and the one taking care of it is M.I.A. / buried under loads of busy life stuff afaik.

 

I've seen one suggestion thread like 1 or 2 years ago, yes. But the consent then was that there was no such option and to use a browser add-on to manipulate the pages to show that way. When actively searching with the search function for such a thread now I did not find it (and no, I normally don't have any trouble finding what I want on search and, yes, I did also search google as well but the best bet there was, is still a reddit post about add-ons and not a batoto thread, which should be on the first 5 pages of my search result would it have been pushed here as thought). So my guess is the search function is not working as good as it should. And I definitely will not read all the posts out there hoping to find what I'm looking for by chance. That's why there is such a thing as a search function - or should be. And considering it IS something a lot of users want or ask about - why the heck is there nothing about it in the FAQ? Right now you'd probably rather find an explanation as to why you shouldn't go around on forums dissing people for the fun of it (which is something any idiot should know and therefore wouldn't need an FAQ entry), there is no entry for such an important thing.
 
As this is something that, according to your own statement, has been asked for many, many times, I don't see a legit reason why it cannot be implemented (as it's obviously discriminating Japanese or Chinese mangas and manhuas considering that most people WANT to read those in long strip format; also it's making batoto as a reader more unattractive when such a widely spread feature is not available on here. If you go through the trouble of having multiple image servers you could just as well make this an option to be activated by users on demand.).
 
If the admin taking care of the status reviewing is M.I.A. then the next natural step would be to enable someone else to do it or to make it an automated thing after 10 uploads have been successfully granted. I'm a supporter of batoto but I do hate this sort of procrastination. It's unprofessional. If you know there's a problem, then you find ways to solve them, not accept it and move on, doing nothing about it. I have a pretty hard time convincing our readers to read on batoto instead of one of the hoster mafia sites when the only thing they get out of it is disadvantage. And right now that is the case because I often have to wait 6 hours to entire days for a release to be published on here while it's out there already. Like that the only way for us to guarantee no leak to the hoster mafia beforehand is to block the release from our forums too. But then the thing is that I don't know when the release will be on batoto because even if I put a time frame there with a delay, it's not like that would actually work. There's no point in putting a 6 hours delay there if it won't be released by then on batoto. So basically someone has to glue his eyes onto the update page and wait for the thing to be accepted and then update our forum. It's annoying. As a scanlator I want my work to be released as fast as possible when we're done. Forestalling due to management problems of a third party is just hindering us there.
 
Summed up this seems like the statement batoto is making on this is nothing more than "Oh, yes, we know that we do have problems, but we'd rather write another netiquette than tackle the hard stuff." Make a poll on what people really want or need. It's not another language nearly no one uses. It's not some fancy new font or smiley option either. And people do already know without you telling them in useless FAQ how to behave on the internet towards others, they most often just choose not to. Duh.

[OMGWTFBBQPONIES]

Well, the suggestions/support sections rule is to take a look at thread titles on the first page at least so as not to create duplicates. I'm seeing at least two there (with one from september about making a sticky about it; the other one from june).

I think no one "bothers" editing FAQ (in addition to it being a fragile construct because of how IPB handles html posts; though I've seen some attempts at making changes to it this year) because hardly anyone seems to read these or pinned/stickied threads and how often "I just got this idea while reading and I feel like posting it asap" threads about it tend to pop up (so it creates a thread chain with the end of it always being visibly within reach).

IPB search engine is not very good (tends to omit a lot of recent posts/threads and instead digs up something from years ago, or just doesn't return anything at all), searching via google should work though (sometimes you have to hit the right keyword for what you want, but that's the case with all kinds of searches and google likes to synonymise everything so that's a big plus).

 

gathering some reasons from previous threads: it's a mix of costs of displaying it in relation to ad companies' policies on ad per page limits, problems with how to implement it that is not a lazy/ugly "just display it in a column" (what to do with double/uncut pages, etc.), honouring scanlator wishes because printed comics/manga are not intended to be viewed in such form (not sure if this one is a staff reasoning or some user's own assumption on the issue), subjective views on the feature, there being only grumpy who can make modifications to the site and him having a full-time job affecting how much time he can devote to upgrades (in addition to maintenance and bugfixing)... though again, not sure about the current situation on that (aside from the "no new comment on something = no changes since the last reply" assumption), more lightweight reader with some preloading that we have now would shift the scale closer towards "it's fine now" imo (the preloading technically should take away some of the slow internets people from the group interested in this feature, but personal reading preferences are still an acceptable argument), and you say the interest in it supposedly grew in recent years, but the paypal issue with donations cutting off some financial support would move it further away from it... no idea how much of a burden the bots from other sites crawling batoto for content are (if the added countermeasures are working satisfyingly, then that probably opens possibilities, if not then it adds to the costs side)... I will poke grumpy about it (i.e. ask to reanalyse the viability of it) when I happen to catch him, but you can also poke/pm/email him with more peristence put into it if you want.

 

I think it's fine for me to mention it: the internal attempts at finding a replacement for contrib approvals failed so far (and you can't really go out asking stangers if they want admin rights on your site). if you were to ask me, I'd put analysing these requests on the top of the "how hard/tiring/time-consuming it is" scale of staff tasks, so I'm not too surprised about it.

 

automated contrib approvals won't be possible because it is a "user is trusted to know how to upload and not to break rules" thing. you can think of it as the lowest mod status? plus you'd be surprised how many people making these requests have to have their mistakes explained to them first.

 

as for other mods/staff members doing primarily non-earth-shattering stuff like trying to keep uploads/comic comments/fora organised, it's volunteering in their free time + limited possibilities of making changes beyond their permission levels + having life/work/other interests/etc. limit how much of said free time they have (I admit I'm additionally guided by what I find enjoyable/relaxing in what I choose to do after a tiring day/week). plus this year seems to have been especially busy to everyone so far so apologies if it made it seem like no one cares anymore.

 

and sorry if I sound like I focus too much on the forum/posting side when you ask aboout different things, I'm a forum mod first and foremost (that's on the sick leave half of the time and thus never gets their grander projects here finished; also talking is a free action).

[Akilovescookies]

Thanks for those explanations.

 

I might not know a lot about the restrictions/possibilities on the ads per page thing but then again this argument would seem like unfair prioritizing of webtoons compared to other formats. It'd be interesting to know how this is handled on those. Because if it's a "we need a number of X ads to run the site and therefore have to have mangas and manhuas show 1 page style to get all ads in", there could be more solutions to meet halfway. For instance something like a strip format for 5-10 pages with a maximum pixel hight to keep people from simply uploading super long pictures, but then apply this for all formats alike, creating equality. Because the way I see it, nothing would stop me from photoshopping all the images together to have it forcebly show them as a super long picture. If the overall .rar size is more or less the same as a packaged collection of multiple images... (Actually I suddenly really like that idea because I think that it might screw with the hoster mafia's attempts to scrape the release onto their sites. Especially if they use long strip and single page format... *evil grin*)

 

While there might be certain scanlators that wish to have their mangas read in single page format, I seriously doubt that this is an overall hindrance. I'm a really big fan of batoto compared to other sites and have been trying to get our groups' readers to come here instead of the other sites. But from all the feedback I've got, I can safely say that the majority of them thwarts our plea because of the single page format. That leaves me in the awkward position of punishing them for not complying with our wish to not support the hoster mafia when they go there due to their preference to read in a certain format. Now I could simply leave it as is and move on, but then I'm not that person. I fight for my ideals even if it means being called names for it along the way.  I still feel like not supporting the hoster mafia and shaming them is the bigger picture here, but I don't feel as good about it as I should, seeing how I anger readers along the way. I'm walking a very thin line here and get queasy.

 

I understand how managing a site like this alongside your own real life obligations creates a huge burden. I can relate it to it because I, too, have to do the same for our forums and coordinate the groups' workers and releases. But being the business administration & economics student that I am, I also got this need for cost minimizing and efficiency management ingrained within me. If not for my studies, then due to my accounting internship work. I see inefficiencies and I want to overhaul them.

 

The status reviewing thing is one of the things that I keep coming back to because it's one that could be changed more easily. It's like one of those naked-flashers waiting behind a corner, trying to ambush me: "Hello again! Look at my thing!" and all I want to do is give that poor, confused guy something to wear. LOL.

 

I get that it takes a lot of time to review the requests. But then you have to look at the bigger picture. + and -. What do you gain and what do you loose? For the cases that I am thinking of, you'd win a load of overall time, because you would not have to keep on reviewing the uploads by someone once the contri request has been granted. And it's not like you cannot undo the action should the need arise. Batoto has a reporting function and mods crawling the site, so errors and misdemeanor would not go unspotted or corrected.

 

As for no one bothering to read FAQ.... I'm a total FAQ nazi. Especially when the search function fails. Maybe my google search results got messed up because I'm using Ixquick but then I also suppose that the problem lies with the fact that this issue cannot be pinned down to a single word and people would refer to it once by "long strip format", others "long-strip format", others by "seeing all pictures in a line", others by "viewing all images on one page" etc. etc. etc. So even if the search function would work properly, it'd have a hard time putting all those posts together into one logical issue unless searching tags would be manually added by the mods and the search results filtered accordingly to reliably catch them all ("Gotta catch them all, gotta catch them all!" stuck in my mind now....duh...)

 

I'll be honest: I don't have the time or patience to read a full site of suggestions, especially if their headlines only read "suggestion" or whatnot.. (in fact headlines like those make me skip them all together in most cases because I get annoyed and want to smack the poster)

So I use the search function and google. Normally I get around fine that way (believe me, I normally don't have to look hard for anything at all, even if it shouldn't be easy to find). If, as you say, there are 20-30 such posts, then that just underlines my previous statements, making it even more important to either fix the search function and/or edit the FAQ.