39 replies to this topic

[justbaam]

The battle, most time it's about mere use of power without cool strategy. It will be cool if the battle will be memorable like Naruto vs 3rd Raikage or Minato vs Tobi.

[An_Aerobic_Arabic]

My only gripe with ToG is that the minor characters are badly introduced, if at all (some of them doesn't even have names). But this problem occurs on season 1 and some parts on season 2

Aside from the main roster of the character, good luck remembering each one of them without wiki

 

Also, most of the time they don't have enough screen time, heck, some characters appears one time and went away without a trace

[menofhorror]

Honesly, I did enjoy the first half of season 2 more than season 1.

Pre-workshop Viole was so awesome. He was powerful on his own, he had a goal. He seemed to have gotten darker and he moved the plot himself.

I did also like the feeling of sadness and drama behind him, seeing how Team Wangnan was looking at him as if he was a monster, his former friends not knowing that he had to endure the previous years in FUG's captive. Honestly the story was more gripping when Baam was suffering. Sorry Baam.

 

I really don't mind if the story later on isn't as brutal or it was a bit more shonen like.

Personally what I don't like that much is how SIU handled the relationship between the main trio and the way they contribute to the plot. Rak is too much of a comic relief and rarely gets to say anything. Would have loved to see him as an equal part of the main trio. I felt the relationship between Koon and Baam much more in season 1 (though it's not that bad), the same with Baam and Rak (they barely talk to each other).

 

Also too many side characters. The whole situation with them sacrificing the girl really didn't keep me invested at all.

And the side characters are all most humans but in different colours. Would like to see SIU incorporate some different like the rooster or Rak.

[Vapid]

I really loved the magic of part 1. 

 

For example, the throne game was pretty thrilling. Only the most cunning could sit on that chair. Even Laure and Anak were using their heads and you couldn't predict what the teams would do. The stakes were pretty high and relevant, "Black March" & "Green April" as reward which participants themselves introduced. Death was also around the corner. Not the shitty, 'Well your lives are on the line, oops we took a hostage and we will now commence the Baam melting'. Combine that with the goofy humor that some side-characters brought to the table and you had a splendid arc.

 

SIU is pretty cheap nowadays when it comes to coming up with situations that demand thinking and people fulfilling their roles. He makes time to go deep into characters like Daniel, Roen, Aka, Sachi who uttered their regret line every 2 panels during the whole train city arc. I felt so much was wasted on characters I couldn't give 2 shits about. 

It's a good thing that I paced myself for the Train arc because this arc actually, has characters that I can invest my interests' in.

 

 

My only gripe with ToG is that the minor characters are badly introduced, if at all (some of them doesn't even have names). But this problem occurs on season 1 and some parts on season 2

Aside from the main roster of the character, good luck remembering each one of them without wiki

 

Also, most of the time they don't have enough screen time, heck, some characters appears one time and went away without a trace

I wonder where team Leesoo's other teammates are. Baam already has so many side characters following/climbing with him, so which characters would you want to be fleshed out?

[Diabolical Rhapsody]

Ignoring the fact that no one but fodder ever dies (which I blame Naver for), I agree with 101010 that Baam's moral dilemma's seem pretty unrealistic.

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As for the games & tests, some of them have definitely been hit & miss. But while I would love to see more detail in the tests (especially the ones that are complex team vs team battles), I think people fail to realize that the tests that SIU does go into detail about are simply background for other plot elements.

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I also think that a lot of readers have been thrown off by the huge change in pacing. I mean, all of Season 1 took place on 2F. Granted, there was a lot of world building that needed to be done, but SIU should have either figured out how to spread that world building out through out multiple floors so that Season 1's pacing could have been like Season 2's, or... the far better choice in my opinion, SIU should have maintained the same pacing (and gravitas) of Season 1 through out the rest of the series. Sure, Baam would probably still be training under the watchful eyes of Yu Han Sung right now under such pacing, but a slower pacing also would allow SIU to spin a far thicker web.

 

Right now, I feel like the pacing of ToG is too fast and too shallow. There's not enough intrigue, suspense, or depth to the characters. It's like all we have of the characters, except for Baam & Rachel, are first impressions when we should know them by now and know them pretty damn well.

I want more background interactions like Jinsung's visit with Karaka & Ren's talk with Yu Han Sung and less shallow crap like Urek magically appearing, punching Baam, and then magically disappearing again with no actual plot impact. SIU could learn some things from World Trigger or Tokyo Ghoul, maybe even Boku no Hero Academia.

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Finally, I agree that characters' positions should have a stronger effect on how they fight & maybe even on how they approach various non-combat situations.

^^^ This pretty much sums it up for me. Apart from what 101010 and Thanos said.

 

I miss the days of reading S1 and all the talks about in the forum of a theme like Romance of 3 Kingdoms about the main trio. I also agree that Rak has become mostly comic relief.

 

I also feel that SIU should have ended S2 with the Dangerous room arc because that was the highlight of the S2. What followed was Baam becoming more shounen-y and ToG loosing its dark undertone. Also, the fact that weak characters like Miseng, Teddy and others just get a piggyback ride through the floors, pretty much underplays the tyranny and terror that is the tower.

 

While I didn't think that ToG would be another Berserk or Jackals or Shut Hell! but I certainly believed that it had potential to be a serious drama. I feel that Baam has only gotten softer as he proceeds through floors and that his entourage is swelling at an alarming pace which is mostly fodder when it compares to monsters that are known as 'Rankers.'

 

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My other gripe is almost zero knowledge on the various positions or even the special position that our MC has. Leave description about Fisherman class, we know almost nothing about the wave-controller position. Plus, the fact that despite their rarity we know for certain that Baam's current extended support group have 3 certified Wave Controllers, 1 an Irregular (The only Irregular after Zahard's team to hold such a position.) and two from the branch family of the most powerful wave controller in the tower. Add to it 1 non-ranker certified Zahard princess, 1 demi-Zahard princess and a possible Princess Reject (with how things are panning out.) and yet you have the 'monster with 6 baangs' struggling with mooks.

 

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Finally, its a pet peeve but I really liked knowing the unique attacks that characters unleashed in their battles but from the recent ones, most seem just like an upgrade of the earlier ones, there is no wow factor. (I'm looking at you, Ran.)

[Sacrass]

I really hope Rachel pulls another Griffith, but on a massive scale this time. It would solidify her as a threatening villain (both power-wise and morally), and trim down the cast a bit. ToG is going the way of Bleach, too many characters, and it could very well end as unfulfilling as Bleach did in that regard.

[YourTruly]

i loved hell train arc!

[flowsthead]

I really hope Rachel pulls another Griffith, but on a massive scale this time. It would solidify her as a threatening villain (both power-wise and morally), and trim down the cast a bit. ToG is going the way of Bleach, too many characters, and it could very well end as unfulfilling as Bleach did in that regard.

 

Even if I agreed that TOG has too many characters (and I don't), TOG is not Bleach. For one thing, there is a greater plot that we are little by little introduced to that is more than just random fighting. For another, there is an upper limit to how powerful people can get as evidenced by Urek and Enryu. We may not have stabilized power levels among the Regulars, but we know roughly what Rankers are capable of. TOG will never be Bleach. There is no Koon in Bleach, for example, and certainly no Repellista or HwaRyun.

[gus]

Even if I agreed that TOG has too many characters (and I don't), TOG is not Bleach. For one thing, there is a greater plot that we are little by little introduced to that is more than just random fighting. For another, there is an upper limit to how powerful people can get as evidenced by Urek and Enryu. We may not have stabilized power levels among the Regulars, but we know roughly what Rankers are capable of. TOG will never be Bleach. There is no Koon in Bleach, for example, and certainly no Repellista or HwaRyun.

 

 

is it more accurate to say that SIU has more creativity with his characters design

 

i think the problem with TOG  is that the paneling and how the chapter is constructed is very Bleach

 

to anyone who read a chapter of Bleach now or in the past would experience a deja vu when reading TOG

[25thIremi]

Bleach depended on hidden powers & asspulls for winning every fight. ToG doesn't. ToG just doesn't have dependable power scales.

[Vapid]

is it more accurate to say that SIU has more creativity with his characters design

 

i think the problem with TOG  is that the paneling and how the chapter is constructed is very Bleach

 

to anyone who read a chapter of Bleach now or in the past would experience a deja vu when reading TOG

 

Bleach depended on hidden powers & asspulls for winning every fight. ToG doesn't. ToG just doesn't have dependable power scales.

I guess it's a good thing that I will never watch/read Bleach. Is it good or, bad that ToG doesn't have dependable power scales? What are some examples, that show how ToG doesn't have reliable power-scales?

 

I really hope Rachel pulls another Griffith, but on a massive scale this time. It would solidify her as a threatening villain (both power-wise and morally), and trim down the cast a bit. ToG is going the way of Bleach, too many characters, and it could very well end as unfulfilling as Bleach did in that regard.

So, not only will Rachel instantaneously become powerful but, she'll kill a nice chunk of the cast, just because she's jealous of Baam? I don't like the sound of that idea. How would Rachel gain such power? Who would she specifically kill? Why would she kill them?

 

I will just say that Tower of God will never end as unfulfilling as Bleach did in that case.

Edited by Davy_Clyde, 21 August 2016 - 01:50 AM.

[gus]

Bleach depended on hidden powers & asspulls for winning every fight. ToG doesn't. ToG just doesn't have dependable power scales.

 

their different kind of ass-pulls in TOG  it mostly due to plot induced stupidity 

[25thIremi]

their different kind of ass-pulls in TOG  it mostly due to plot induced stupidity 

Eh... "plot induced stupidity" is another way for a reader to complain that a character didn't do what the reader wanted them to. Sometimes, everyone agrees that a character should have made a better choice, but not always and not usually in the case of ToG. Don't forget that "hindsight is 20/20".

Edited by 25thIremi, 21 August 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[gus]

Eh... "plot induced stupidity" is another way for a reader to complain that a character didn't do what the reader wanted them to. Sometimes, everyone agrees that a character should have made a better choice, but not always and not usually in the case of ToG. Don't forget that "hindsight is 20/20".

 

yes  your right in a way that everything is going in a direction

 

my point is when the reader notice were the author  is going with his story and in so when you see the protagonist not giving it all do to various reason

 

like  the author not wanting to move the story

 

i think  when you as the reader is oblivious to the direction  of the story that  makes it believable same applied to a character

 

the Rachel push was an example at the end of S1

Edited by gus, 21 August 2016 - 05:48 AM.

[Sacrass]

I think everyone here misinterpreted what I said. Bleach's end was extremely unfulfilling because of all the backstories that weren't explained, and characters that seemed like throwaways, as to serve as a small bumps on the road of either faction's goals. I just feel that ToG might go the same way since its cast is becoming massive.

[herp]

I just came here to defend SIU in one particular point. Most mention the change in "brutality" of TOG and SIU's change from dark to a more cheerfull type shonen scenery. 
I want to say that SIU has mentioned in his blog post multiple times that he had to change those stuff cause "someone else" thought it would be better that way.
He literally whined on his blog because of things like that. So, im actually angry at Naver for butting their noses in SIU's comic instead of letting him keep doing it the way he was. If it ain't broken dont fix it.

Edited by herp, 18 September 2016 - 06:28 PM.

[svines85]

I just came here to defend SIU in one particular point. Most mention the change in "brutality" of TOG and SIU's change from dark to a more cheerfull type shonen scenery. 
I want to say that SIU has mentioned in his blog post multiple times that he had to change those stuff cause "someone else" thought it would be better that way.
He literally whined on his blog because of things like that. So, im actually angry at Naver for butting their noses in SIU's comic instead of letting him keep doing it the way he was. If it ain't broken dont fix it.

 

That's........just how popular, in particular, shounen titles work though. It's one of the greatest flaws there is in this particular genre/demographic/medium......the author's (or publisher's) desire to keep appealing to/and extend the popularity of/ the work whether it's (overall) detrimental or not. 

 

In other words, getting the story told can go out the window (as I, absolutely, think happened here a loooong time ago) when "we" (author/publisher) discover we've got a winner on our hands and decide to start adding filler to keep the gravy train rolling as long as possible

[Scaze]

I too, think that there's too many characters. Though admittedlly, that may be a bit of a euphemism for me wanting certain characters gone.
I feel like weaker characters definitely need to be trimmed out, it screws with the established setting. Miseng, Goseng, Prince, Arkraptor, all of these guys have to go - and soon, ideally Wagnang too, but it seems that SIU is setting him up for some big reveal so I unfortunately can't hold my breath for that one.
I'm hoping that there will be some kind of split on the 43rd floor - if there was ever a place to streamline the party down, then that'd be it.
I feel that there's way too many gags nowadays - certain characters are always doing this bickering thing that's supposedly meant to be funny... and could be if it wasn't severly overused. It's too much, lowers tension and is a waste of panels, SIU really needs to scale back on it imo.
Rak being relegated to comic relief also somewhat links into this - I also feel that it's damaging Ran's character slightly - he can't really fit the 'brooding' archetype if he's constantly doing that 'comedic bickering' bs, and imo that is the best archetype for him to fit into...

I feel like SIU really needs to start forming up the 'Dream team' now, and I'd prefer if there wasn't any more fighting based threats till the 90+ floor. In fact, after the 43rd floor, or princess arc, assuming that one leads directly into the other, I'd like to see some normal, casual climbing. No planted regulars, no FuG, just breezing through tests and fleshing out character dynamics (actual character dynamics, again, away with the whole bickering nonesense please - there's times where it makes sense, and times where it doesn't)
I mean, if SIU is constantly throwing out 'super important event/arc/conflict' flags everywhere then they're going to start feeling less important, I'd like to see the story, and the cast, just take a step back and indulge in some breathing room.

[gus]

That's........just how popular, in particular, shounen titles work though. It's one of the greatest flaws there is in this particular genre/demographic/medium......the author's (or publisher's) desire to keep appealing to/and extend the popularity of/ the work whether it's (overall) detrimental or not. 

 

In other words, getting the story told can go out the window (as I, absolutely, think happened here a loooong time ago) when "we" (author/publisher) discover we've got a winner on our hands and decide to start adding filler to keep the gravy train rolling as long as possible

 

it like what happening with the movies these days studio interference they don't let the director do their job

[svines85]

it like what happening with the movies these days studio interference they don't let the director do their job

 

I think, yeah, a lot of times that is indeed the case. Maybe in some cases the author's willing/capable of going along with it, or is even happy to do so.........yeah, it's all about making more money, not every "artist" is above selling out.......but, it's more than just a handful of titles that spring immediately to my mind, that yeah, they were ultimately ruined by just this kind of economic pandering.

 

The product they were delivering  just got weaker and weaker and weaker........and once readership feel enough they just slapped a quickie ending on 'em and walked away like it had nothing to do with them or how they'd been dragging it out and pandering to the audience by giving them more and more and more all along.