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Is this business with "leaked" chapters pointless theft?


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11 replies to this topic

#1
death2boredom

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So I know the title alone is a strong enough statement of opinion, but I'm still going to go a bit further into why I think the way I do, put up with it please.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the purpose of advanced screenings for chapters on Naver to produce more revenue? From my understanding, only people who have accounts that either pay or subscribe for that service are supposed to see those chapters. As someone who has also spent years on the internet enjoying the beautiful power of near unlimited access to entertainment materials for free, I understand how normal this business with leaking the advanced screening chapters is. My problem with this despite it being normal procedure is a key point that separates it from other materials subject to the same procedures, we can already view chapters of Naver webcomics for free.

The only thing people are gaining from a leak of these chapters is reading one chapter in advanced to everyone that doesn't, and as I understand it that is coming at the cost of money which is going towards something that is trying to provide one of the best entertainment services I've seen. Is that really worth it? I personally feel its completely pointless. Unlike the case of spoilers in the old days where you'd get a few panels in crappy quality which allowed you to go down wild avenues with fan theories and speculation that were equally as interesting as the series itself, viewing advanced screenings of a series just puts you one chapter ahead but still on a weekly schedule. If you just ignore their existence and read the chapters as they naturally come out, there's basically no difference.

 

And once again I'd like to rephrase what I first said using some of the words of comedian Bill Burr. Despite popular internet opinion spreading an artists work, its not "sharing maaaaan" its theft. If there is money being exchanged for this advanced screening of chapters, the viewing and spreading of them for free is theft. Personally I'm fine with being a thief when it comes to some music, anime, and manga just because I feel those industries are more at fault for being too behind the times in making their products properly available. However in the case of Naver, I feel like they have and are doing a great job of being with the times. So yea, I'm against this business and feel its pointless.

 

However, like I said at the start, this is my opinion and I may be wrong about how the advanced screening of chapters is run. If I am wrong about how the screening is done I'd like to be corrected so that I can just delete this thread. Even if I am wrong about that though, I do feel like reading advanced screenings is completely pointless. I'd still subscribe to anything that would give Naver more money though, but unfortunately I've come to a stone wall in trying to buy anything off of Naver.


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#2
101010

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That's all good, but we are literally unable to purchase access to the preview chapters. I think that's the actual unfair bit, even though some of us have been following the comic for years. I think it's fair to say that the leaks will stop the moment we are offered to access the previews, even if not in English. Kind of similar to the situation of the comic itself. If you remember, for years it used to be ``scanlated'' and uploaded here to Batoto (and to The Company's blog too) but once LINE acknowledged the Western fans then all scanlation stopped.


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#3
death2boredom

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That's all good, but we are literally unable to purchase access to the preview chapters. I think that's the actual unfair bit, even though some of us have been following the comic for years. I think it's fair to say that the leaks will stop the moment we are offered to access the previews, even if not in English. Kind of similar to the situation of the comic itself. If you remember, for years it used to be ``scanlated'' and uploaded here to Batoto (and to The Company's blog too) but once LINE acknowledged the Western fans then all scanlation stopped.

As far as I recall even with "scanlation"  that was only to translate something that was already being provided for free. Am I wrong about that? If I'm not I don't see anything wrong with people taking it upon themselves to take something that's already free and translating it so others can enjoy it. My problem with the advanced screening thing is that its seemingly a for purchase service. If we non Korean fans can't purchase it yet, that too bad but its not that big of a deal. This isn't some exclusive content that you can't live without, its the same chapter you'd be able to read a week late. Heck, if no one who had access to those chapters or knowledge of the service hadn't started leaking information and then the chapters themselves you wouldn't have missed it. Right now I feel as though what you're saying is the same as a kid being mad that someone else is getting a new toy before them so they resort to stealing their parents money to buy it. Naver has treated us pretty damn well, so what your saying still doesn't convince me that this is anything more than a pointless theft.

 

If anything, the fact that Line exists should point to the fact that something similar may be in the works for western fans as well. As far as I know this is a fairly new service for Naver as well so they may just be trying to work it out. I honestly hope that they work out a way to stop people from spreading those advance scans more than western fans getting the same service because like I said, its a pretty pointless service anyway. If anything, the act of pirating it may discourage them from even continuing the service if it gets too severe and I'm only opposed to that because they'd be losing money. In all truth though, I'd be very happy if they caught on and canceled this service in favor of something more exclusive like physical products.

At the end of the day though, you guys are free to steal as much as you want. I'm just expressing my thoughts on why I feel it is a pointless theft. And any cyies of, "But I deserve it" will fall on deaf ears because you've lived without it before.


Edited by death2boredom, 11 July 2016 - 07:11 PM.

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#4
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The chapters were freely accessible on Naver, but it was expected that users also viewed the ads on the website. Moreover, it was speculated back then that authors' pay is proportional to the popularity of their comic, naturally, and thus diverting traffic from the main website was harming the authors. This is also the reason why groups such as Odd Squad developed web browser extensions that allowed to overlay English text on Naver, and thus Western fans would properly generate traffic.

 

I do agree it's a pointless service and the whole scheme seems like a silly attempt to extort money from literal kids (pretty much the target audience of comics such as ToG and Noblesse), not to mention the strain it puts on the already exhausted and stressed authors.


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#5
svines85

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As far as I recall even with "scanlation"  that was only to translate something that was already being provided for free. Am I wrong about that? 

 

Yup, completely wrong. I mean, maybe you can rationalize it away (like I do :D ) by saying "oh, well, I'm not the one who bought this and then ripped/uploaded it online for the whole world to get for free and say it's "free", but yeah, that's a rationalization, plain and simple.

 

Are you seriously saying something like that after being on this site for over three years? You mean to tell me you can't look around you and see that like.......oh, I don't know, say 99.99% of the fan-scanlated content available here was not and is not available in its original form for free? Seriously?

 

Not to be rude, but trying to make an appeal to people's sense of ethical behavior (in the context of this conversation) on a site that specifically caters to just the opposite of that.......wow, yeah, you're really barking up the wrong tree here, friend :)


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#6
Lester

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Call it what you want, but clearly Naver doesn't care enough about our (Western fans') patronage to make the advanced content available to us. If they did, I'd gladly pay the small fee to read it. Since I can't, I'm resorting to other means to read it.



#7
gus

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As far as I recall even with "scanlation"  that was only to translate something that was already being provided for free. Am I wrong about that? If I'm not I don't see anything wrong with people taking it upon themselves to take something that's already free and translating it so others can enjoy it. My problem with the advanced screening thing is that its seemingly a for purchase service. If we non Korean fans can't purchase it yet, that too bad but its not that big of a deal. This isn't some exclusive content that you can't live without, its the same chapter you'd be able to read a week late. Heck, if no one who had access to those chapters or knowledge of the service hadn't started leaking information and then the chapters themselves you wouldn't have missed it. Right now I feel as though what you're saying is the same as a kid being mad that someone else is getting a new toy before them so they resort to stealing their parents money to buy it. Naver has treated us pretty damn well, so what your saying still doesn't convince me that this is anything more than a pointless theft.

 

If anything, the fact that Line exists should point to the fact that something similar may be in the works for western fans as well. As far as I know this is a fairly new service for Naver as well so they may just be trying to work it out. I honestly hope that they work out a way to stop people from spreading those advance scans more than western fans getting the same service because like I said, its a pretty pointless service anyway. If anything, the act of pirating it may discourage them from even continuing the service if it gets too severe and I'm only opposed to that because they'd be losing money. In all truth though, I'd be very happy if they caught on and canceled this service in favor of something more exclusive like physical products.

At the end of the day though, you guys are free to steal as much as you want. I'm just expressing my thoughts on why I feel it is a pointless theft. And any cyies of, "But I deserve it" will fall on deaf ears because you've lived without it before.

 

 

you answered your own question the word your looking for is Scanlation


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#8
BoldChild

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Nah, if you die tomorrow you would have seen xx more chapters than you would have if you read it normally.


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#9
Fishcake

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I think whoever owns the sites where "leaked" chapters are being put up could be put into potential trouble



#10
justbaam

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If I'm not mistaken, there's a 'permanent package' in the preview service for about 87,600 won (USD 77), I'm not sure how this one is working. But if it gives us full access to TOG for unlimited time, imho to purchase that package when Line published the global service will be quite fair for my conscience. Just like reading some manga online and purchase the printed version when it arrived to my country.

 

FYI : The preview chapters are 3 weeks faster


Edited by justbaam, 25 July 2016 - 02:21 AM.


#11
gus

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If I'm not mistaken, there's a 'permanent package' in the preview service for about 87,600 won (USD 77), I'm not sure how this one is working. But if it gives us full access to TOG for unlimited time, imho to purchase that package when Line published the global service will be quite fair for my conscience. Just like reading some manga online and purchase the printed version when it arrived to my country.

 

FYI : The preview chapters are 3 weeks faster

 

it currently only for the Korean public  i don't see the feature being release on Line maybe in the future 

 

the realistic plan would probably be   the printed book for the mass audience


Edited by gus, 25 July 2016 - 04:16 AM.

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#12
justbaam

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it currently only for the Korean public  i don't see the feature being release on Line maybe in the future 

 

the realistic plan would probably be   the printed book for the mass audience

 

I see, webtoon audience in Indonesia is quite great [ it could be 30-40k likes for a single chapter, eg : http://www.webtoons.com/id/romance/untouchable/list?title_no=475, noblesse about 20-30k ] compared to Korean TOG ch 289 it has just about 30k rater. Even though, I'm also not sure that the preview service will work in here.

In case it will be printed, we can only to collect the printed version then.