11 replies to this topic

[Belruel]

Anyone else think Hishiro's personality is an accurate depiction of Asperger's?

 

For those who don't know, Asperger's is best described as a lack of empathy and while it is related to autism, can lack the same cognitive impairments associated with it. In other words, a person with Asperger's is generally awful at social skills but can be incredibly productive in some other field. Some notable people who are thought to have Aspergers include Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, Dan Aykroyd, Satoshi Tajiri , and Vernon L. Smith.

 

Ignore the artistic license where the character herself can resolve the issue simply by going through high school again, or having a potential love interest "teach" her how to socialize and focus on the symptoms and behavior please.

 

1. Socially awkward or unresponsive in most social situations

 

2. does not smile when happy, or laugh at a joke. may also respond in monotone; or use wrong facial expressions for the context.

 

3. misses social cues and body language, including sarcasm, anger, etc.

 

4. intense focus on herself and tends to focus on a single subject: grades, explanations, etc

 

5. keeps repeating the same movements or actions to solve a problem: always asks for explanations, often to frustration.

 

6. dislikes change. Can include eating the same thing every day: such as ramen

Edited by Belruel, 10 July 2016 - 11:39 PM.

[MacMeaties]

There is a very widespread Trope in anime and manga, There Are No Therapists. It boils down to there very rarely being any official system in place to protect of even diagnose those with mental illness/disorders, often for convenience or dramas sake. Pet Girl of Sakurasou is a very good example of it. Mashiro was textbook high functioning austism but not once was it ever mentioned there might actually be something wrong with her. 

 

Hishiro may very well be an accurate depiction of Asperger's (I've a cousin with it) but it is either unintentional or the author is fully aware of the parallels but will never address it as it provides the basis for much of the drama involving her and her character. 

[ian.iams571]

She does potentially showcase some general Asperger's Symptoms. However, Asperger's and Autism have so many different levels and variations that you can't cookie cutter them in a general mold (As I did in my unedited post). Every person with Aspergers is different. But there are some commonalities that help for initial diagnosis and Hishiro would have shown those signs in early child development. This isn't the case based on Hishiro's memories and her acknowledgement that she buried her feelings and connections with people purposefully.

 

i think Hishiro's case is more on the level of acute preconditioned thinking enhanced by Negative Reinforcement. To protect herself from constant disappointment and a lack of a stable formative environment, Hishiro's mind probably tried to protect itself by cutting off emotional receptor queues, thus making it harder for her socialize. This probably increased in severity due to a growing sense of self consciousness and feelings of insecurity from a constant stream of new environments and hormonal changes. She might have turned toward perfection of her grades and classwork because that was likely the only thing she felt she could control. This just added to her increasing inability to socialize and reinforced the idea that getting to know people just meant disappointment.

 

What bother's me about this (I love this manga though) is the ReLife Organization's ignorance that Hishiro's condition could be cured in a year's time. Changing her way of thinking and processing social dynamics is a long term commitment. They don't truly care about the subjects, all they want is to increase their bottom line by selling the drug. That's why I hope that Yoake and Onoya take matters into their own hands to allow Kaizaki and Hishiro to be together. Kaizaki's approach toward Hishiro has been pretty accurate so far, allowing her to slowly advance, baby step by baby step while supporting her inch by inch. The best way to cure her is to let her change on her own through positive reinforcement. Hopefully that trend keeps up.

 

Then again what do I know, it's a fictional character and the mangaka can do as they please

Edited by ian.iams571, 06 August 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[GreatNinja]

Well not really considering she wasn't born with the disorder and majority of what ever symptoms she got are conditioned and learned (more of unlearned i guess) so the closest for this would be a personality disorder closely resembling the type A personality disorder(Paranoid, Schizoid, Schizotypal, and Anti-social). soo yeah not Asperger

so yeah also what the guy above said all she really need is too recondition herself, if only counselors and therapies exist in the anime world (she doesn't even need the re-life program lol)

[klayes]

She wasn't born with it. Her condition isn't a disability, it's something that was created out of her moving so frequently and becoming out of touch with others. It is shown in flashbacks that she was friendly and normal at a younger age.  Hence, not Aspergers syndrome. She smiles when happy at this point in the story, not forcing it, but because she finally has something to genuinely smile about.

Edited by klayes, 31 July 2016 - 11:41 PM.

[Omoikane]

Go away burger

[Hail]

Well seeing as most perspectives provided have been those of observers, or with knowledge of aspergers syndrome. I suppose I as one diagnosed with aspergers syndrome may provide my perspective. Do note that I have not researched my own diagnosis to an utmost degree nor do I have any sort of education in behavioral science beyond a basic course, as such I hope whoever may read this will accept this as a personal opinion.

 

 

I would agree in most cases. She does seem to showcase general Asperger's Symptoms (I have a very good friend that has Asperger's and his ability to socialize is very undeveloped, on top of other things.) However, deep down Hishiro knows she needs to change (She wouldn't have signed up for ReLife otherwise, nor would Kaizaki's words have triggered bad memories.) To someone with Asperger's, there is no concept of anything different. To them, they are not wrong, everyone else around them is nor would she would have been able to socialize as a child.

 

i think Hishiro's case is more on the level of acute preconditioned thinking enhanced by Negative Reinforcement. To protect herself from constant disappointment and a lack of a stable formative environment, Hishiro's mind probably tried to protect itself by cutting off emotional receptor queues, thus making it harder for her socialize. This probably increased in severity due to a growing sense of self consciousness and feelings of insecurity from a constant stream of new environments and hormonal changes. She might have turned toward perfection of her grades and classwork because that was likely the only thing she felt she could control. This just added to her increasing inability to socialize and reinforced the idea that getting to know people just meant disappointment.

 

What bother's me about this (I love this manga though) is the ReLife Organization's ignorance that Hishiro's condition could be cured in a year's time. Changing her way of thinking and processing social dynamics is a long term commitment. They don't truly care about the subjects, all they want is to increase their bottom line by selling the drug. That's why I hope that Yoake and Onoya take matters into their own hands to allow Kaizaki and Hishiro to be together. Kaizaki's approach toward Hishiro has been pretty accurate so far, allowing her to slowly advance, baby step by baby step while supporting her inch by inch. The best way to cure her is to let her change on her own through positive reinforcement. Hopefully that trend keeps up.

 

Then again what do I know, it's a fictional character and the mangaka can do as they please

I may have difficulties seeing things with a different perspective, but I do never regard my opinion as the sole correct one unless it is the only possible correct one. (As an example 3-2=1 is absolute)

 

Another point I found to be disturbing would be the part where you imply that children with aspergers syndrome are unable to socialize, I apologize if this is a misconception on my part. While I may have had issues socializing with children my age as I grew up, I would not say that I was unable to do so. I have known my best friend since I was 3 years old and I firmly doubt that he would be my best friend if I was utterly unable to socialize. 

 

Children my own age may have been difficult, however I have always been liked by adults and the elderly. I doubt I could accomplish something like "look cute and they will like you", so it must have more or less been a result of social interaction.

 

In some regards I do still regard myself as a child (presently 17 years old), but my social life is by no means suffering. I go to school, spend time with friends and engage myself in politics like any other 17 year old. 

 

I apologize once more for making this post so long, but I also hope that my firsthand opinion may have some usage in this discussion.

[ian.iams571]

Well seeing as most perspectives provided have been those of observers, or with knowledge of aspergers syndrome. I suppose I as one diagnosed with aspergers syndrome may provide my perspective. Do note that I have not researched my own diagnosis to an utmost degree nor do I have any sort of education in behavioral science beyond a basic course, as such I hope whoever may read this will accept this as a personal opinion.

 

 

I may have difficulties seeing things with a different perspective, but I do never regard my opinion as the sole correct one unless it is the only possible correct one. (As an example 3-2=1 is absolute)

 

Another point I found to be disturbing would be the part where you imply that children with aspergers syndrome are unable to socialize, I apologize if this is a misconception on my part. While I may have had issues socializing with children my age as I grew up, I would not say that I was unable to do so. I have known my best friend since I was 3 years old and I firmly doubt that he would be my best friend if I was utterly unable to socialize. 

 

Children my own age may have been difficult, however I have always been liked by adults and the elderly. I doubt I could accomplish something like "look cute and they will like you", so it must have more or less been a result of social interaction.

 

In some regards I do still regard myself as a child (presently 17 years old), but my social life is by no means suffering. I go to school, spend time with friends and engage myself in politics like any other 17 year old. 

 

I apologize once more for making this post so long, but I also hope that my firsthand opinion may have some usage in this discussion.

 

Hail,

Every perspective is absolutely welcome. Thank you very much for sharing

 

First off I want to point out that I went with a very basic overgeneralization and as I read back on my comment I realize that I came across as vastly off direction and overly clinical, therefore I will be correcting the post.

 

Thank you for point this out to me because this was not how I wanted my post to sound

[Hail]

In my opinion your post was fairly accurate and it just mostly some implications that caused me to tick a little. I could feel it from your text that your intention was not to imply that, as much as it was to provide an overall excellent clinical viewpoint. I look forward to reading it again, best regards

[TWall]

Mentioning that Hishiro's Asperger's seems more environmentally based than genetically is actually a misconception.  For most people on the spectrum the ability to function (albeit poorly) in a normal school is a result of previous study.  Due to little to no knowledge of nonverbal communication, all actions are based on what is seen and internalized.  For most people on the spectrum the activity of "people watching" is akin to cram school for neurotypicals.  So if we look at Hishiro's notes on people it shows 1)She is people watching and 2)Is using those notes in a way that would increase productivity in a scientific way.  For a person on the spectrum that is pretty much the only way to solve problems.  Since the nonverbal communication each person has is  unperceived, the only way to solve problems is to remove all inconsistent variables and only focus on the consistent variables.

I'm not a psychologist, nor am I in school to become one.  Yet I've met with a few since I have been diagnosed with Asperger's and have studied it extensively (as far as books go).  Not that it matters, but I am 25, so my personal experience may be broader than the 17 year old.  

[Ryu22]

It doesn't look like Asperger's at all, it looks like someone that doesn't know how to socialize because they lost interest along the way (which we know from the manga).

She smiles she just didn't have a chance to smile but has been show to smile on chances were she was ACTUALLY happy.

And she studies simply because that was the ONLY thing that gave her self-worth and somewhere along the way it became "normal" to be successful and she lost interest but continued because it was the only thing she knew.

Honestly you are just showing the major flaws with psychology, you are just attributing symptoms that aren't there to fit your thesis.

So in conclusion

1 is simply because she doesn't KNOW how to socialize (yes kids this is something that is LEARNED and it is not innate)

2 Just not true she just didn't have a chance to be happy but has show to smile when she is truly happy

3 same as the first one

4 no intense focus, just habit created out of repetition

5 again habit created out of repetition, she is just treating her classmates as teachers and asking the parts she doesn't understand

6 never show to dislike change, in fact she has been very open to change and made big efforts to change, it is probably habit created out of repetition

[dchang0]

1) Hishiro has at times been shown to show empathy (and sympathy) towards others.

 

2) If Hishiro did have Asperger's, why would the Japanese gov't bother enrolling her in the ReLIFE program at all? Why not use treatment programs designed specifically for Asperger's patients, which presumably would cost far less than ReLIFE (mass memory wipes can't be cheap)?