8 replies to this topic

[gremar]

Hi there,
I just started reading this manga, and decided to start a discussion on the story. Also, it should serve for the new readers as an explanation and help keeping them from being confused when reading it.

1. It is based an a true incident that shook Japan in 1997.
2. The name of the leading protagonist is a name play on the "name" of the offender in 1997.
3. It is supposed to be a psychological thriller, because of the deep emotions involved(on all sides). The incident upon which this manga is loosely based, were filled with emotions on all sides.
4. Based on this statement of the offender in 1997 "compulsory education that formed me, an invisible person." It would seem, that the story is to be loosely based on the topic of bullying(the main protagonist dis also say so) or alienation. I am also aware that this type of "alienation" of people still do occur. Education to this issue, maybe, that is what the author is heading for.
5. The witchcraft of the "black magic" of balancing is nothing more than keeping the balance between, light and darkness, good and evil, living and dead like many belief organisation (Fengshui et al) teach. It is almost as if the author is trying to create a balance between the living and the dead, or maybe asking you to(alienation for many is as if they're dead). I term this the state of the living dead. Meaning, the dead also have their place amongst the living(I think and feel differently about literally deceased people, but this is about this story).
- By keeping the balance of the amount of students within the class, the "invisible"(dead student) has and retains her place. However, when one student transfers to the class it means that for the dead there is no place, hence, they are not really "invisible" any more but non-existent. It would be similar to the phrase "out of sight, out of mind".
- By making one student invisible(Misaki) they are striking the balance to appease the dead or fit her in. That is why on the table of the deceased girl the words "Who is the dead person?" were inscribed. The author is trying to convey two meanings to the reader. 1) Who is this person that is dead (Wanting to know more about her) and 2) A rhetoric question for the reader to reflect upon. What it means to be living and are you sure that you are alive?

Updated:
I did some more research on the "balancing" of the class. It would seem(my presumption) that the balancing is based loosely on the Fritz Heider's balance theory. Hmm, let me see if I can break it down a little.
- "My enemy's enemy is my friend", but my enemy's friend could be my enemy or friend, depending on the relationship between me and my enemy and their enemy. Sometimes "friend" does not mean friendship but mutual agreement.
- The theory suggests that a Person who likes another person will be balanced by the same valence attitude on behalf of the other.
- The same theory is applied by many in Wiccan et al practices. I asked my Mother and an Aunt(both witches) about "balancing" and they gave me a similar explanation about what they call "balancing out or in" energy or forces(each person has their own energy and force, but can consume or strengthen that of someone).
I theorize, that the application of this theory to the class has as much to do with a psychological balance as much as a physical one. Bare in mind, the theory can also be applied to objects(her desk etc.). Now, depending on how you view ghosts or familiars you could apply this to it/them. In this case, the deceased girl is made a person and is not declared an it(again depending on how you view this). It is now a she(Person) and due to the original decision of the original class, she has retained her personality and right to an education. Meaning, a right to being visible. I don't think I need to emphasize the difference between a person and a thing. Now theory has it, that when a thing has taken a form psychologically, it can also take form in the tangible world. That would somehow explain the girl appearing in the class group photo. My theory is, the person who stated "she is there" gave the deceased a place(and physical one too) of existence, in this case visibility.

Updated:
- Handshake: It only occurred to me that the handshake was used as a symbol of recognition, sealing and or acceptance. Especially in this manga, the author used it as a sort of initiation. At the beginning the guy with the glasses wanted to shake Sakakiba's(The Proofreader/Q-cer changed it too Sakakibara in Ch.09) hand to accept/seal/identify him as one of the living, and Mei shaking his hand to accept/seal/identify with him their mutual "fate" or "friendship".
- YomiYama: The name of the town is also symbolic to the story itself. Maybe alluding to the town/village as "field of the dead, mountain of the dead or hell mountain/valley/village". The name is not exactly referring to "hell" per se, but to the realm of the dead. Many believe and teach that the kanji that are sometimes used to transcribe Yomi actually refers to the Chinese realm of the dead Huángquán. Please note, that in transcribing they make use of the transliteration technique where the basis is "It can be translated like...".
- Altered memories: There is a syndrome called FMS(False Memory Syndrome). It is supposed to be a condition in which a person's identity and relationships are affected by memories which are not really correct or fact, but because they are strongly believed they can change the way people remember. It is not considered a mental disorder(many believe so) officially. For me, it is nothing different than "brain-washing" or "Hypnosis". In this case, the memory(by the living) of the dead is in some way affecting the lives of the living and giving life to the dead.
- Shinto: The teachings of this religion is very strong in this manga. Having a basic understanding of what this religion teaches you'd come to understand the "supernatural" aspect of this manga and a lot of other mangas too.
- Necromancy: I won't go too deep into this here. In short, it is the communication with the dead or supposedly dead. The ground basis of this manga is slightly littered with this topic. Actually, if you look at it carefully, you could see the necromancer influence(hint; topic of the dead).

Edited by gremar, 21 November 2011 - 08:54 AM.

[Sociopath Espher]

sigh ... maybe i'm too stupid .... i don't get this at alll....

[Yan Q]

On the topic of altered memory, though I won't write much 'cause I have to sleep, everytime a memory is recalled it is changed, because it impossible (unless your brain has a glitch, like those photographic/audiographic memories) to perfectly recall a memory. The more often something is engrained into your head, the more believable it seems.

I guess the thing I like most about this manga is that it is straightforward in asking "are you alive?" "what makes you alive?"
What I don't understand is, what happens to the non-existent person after this is all over? Do they die? Do they simply cease to exist, as in no one remembers them, which is what I believe the librarian was trying to get at.
The irony here is that, the non-existent person, the dead one, is in fact the most alive one there. They won't die because their "existence" is necessary for the black magic, and they have the most freedom to do what they want because they are not confined, because they are not "a part of" the class, to the rules of the classroom.

Ehh, I ended up writing heaps /: /: sorry

[Hollowcantaro]

What a "guide" facepalm.jpg,
Stuff is perfectly explained in the last 2 chapters

[Hellion Twins]

@Hollowcantaro
I can't see how 'Stuff' is perfectly explained in the last two chapters, although the guide isn't really helping much.
Until now, I am still confused but I think its mainly because of their <year that have>, <year that is not> terms.
It's like everyone in Harry Potter saying 'you-know-who' but I'm a muggle and I don't know 'who' that person is.

As someone who has the experience of being 'invisible' and 'non-existant', it shouldn't be confusing me so much. Perhaps its because I don't understand the translation well.

@YanYan
Altered memories - while what you said is true, gremar's explanation is true too. I was alienated in school when I was six due to a certain incident. Classes, excursions, that I have been in, my presence has been completely wiped from my classmates' and even teachers' memories before. They would say things like 'But she wasn't supposed to be there!' and 'OMG how come she's in this picture?! She wasn't there!?'. While they are doing it on purpose, even my teacher shouldn't show that she never knew I was there, should she? But because everyone was doing it, I think she got affected too and her memories changed. If I miss roll call, by not waving my arm frantically or shouting out 'I'm here!', my name would be missed because no one else would help me report that I am there - if they even realized it.

When I were older, things got better because I wasn't being alienated anymore but I think what changed me before stayed with me. There have been times when I have been following a group for hours, even joining in conversation, only to have the group suddenly startle and jump away from me when they 'suddenly' noticed I was there, for some reason. It startles me too and while they start being nice and include me in their group, the whole feeling is off. It's not like they are 'purposely' excluding me. It was rather, me fading into invisibility and wiping my own presence from their minds. It gets scary.

Once, I was talking to someone just a feet RIGHT INFRONT of her, but she was looking through me and talking to someone right behind me. It carried on for quite a while and I was staring into her eyes and calling her name. It freaked me out because I started looking around in panic that maybe I died or something on the way to school until I looked back at the person behind me and her eyes flickered to show like she had seen me and was wondering why the person infront of me didn't. It was only then that my panic ceased but if her eyes hadn't shown that, I might have been like one of the <dead ones> and started thrashing things and hitting people just to verify that I am there. I still haven't forgotten that feeling.

The only thing with this manga that I can't get around is how the people are dying and that is why the alienation occurred. It's probably supernatural but its fuzzing up all my understanding of the manga, maybe because I'm still reading it through my <invisible> point of view.

@gremar
I believe with how the manga is going, Sakakibara is the <dead one> while Misaki is the <non-existent > one, like how you concluded. There's never been any mention that there can't be two, although one being both is a little contradicting, because when someone is dead, they have once existed. A non-existent one never existed. Still, they might both die during the excursion but someone else in class might substitute for them both, because of what YanYan said. I'm afraid that a sacrificial offering/rite was made at that place.

Sorry all, it got long.

[Purple Library Guy]

Thanks for the explanations. This sounds like a really excellent, interesting manga which I do not want to read. A bit too harsh for me to enjoy, y'know?

Lucide: Whoa. That's pretty tough. I mean, I got bullied through elementary school in the old fashioned way--kids getting on my case, insulting me, ostracizing me, chasing me around and beating me up some when they caught me. I wished they'd just leave me alone. But, I'd rather have gone through that than what you had to deal with. I mean, it was a pain, but I knew they were all just jealous 'cause I was smarter than they were, so it didn't make much dent in my massive self-esteem. Your thing--I find it disturbing to realize people could do that. Doesn't matter to me if your post got long BTW, it's articulate and interesting.

[Hellion Twins]

@Purple Library Guy

Thank you. Yeah, getting beaten up was better than not being recognized. I was the crazy girl that always crashed the boys' games because even though they beat me up for being weird and joining in, their insults and occasional 'allowance' for me to play was better than the girls all turning their backs on me. At least, to them, I'm definitely someone alive and kicking around and messing up their games.

Unlike you though, it was because I was getting bullied that I worked hard to become top in my class and among the highest ranking in school (at that time), just to have enough ego to survive the non-existence. Not surprisingly, I became very average when I left that school to the next institution. n n;

[Irecinius]

"However, when one student transfers to the class it means that for the dead there is no place" This is just an expeculation, since we have no confirmation that the same occured the other years.
Talking about the manga not some phylosofical meaning of it..

Now about your thing Hellion Twins:
"But because everyone was doing it, I think she got affected too and her memories changed."
This is more closely related to conformity then it is to confabulation.

People tend to give in to peer pressure, even knowing that its wrong., and they follow what the majority is doing.
Everyone was acting surprized so she must also act surprised..
Kinda like when someone tells a joke, everyone laugh.. you end up laughing too even tho you didn't like the joke or wasn't any good.. but you do anyway, since you don't want to be the only one not laughing, specialy since you know if you don't do it, its likely that they will make fun of you for not understanding the joke and there you go.. you just gave in to peer presure

Do you see what I'm talking about?
The manga dibs exactly on this, the girl being ignored, the guy going against the group collective of ignoring the girl, what happens? he gets ignored too.. no one wants to be ignored so.. you go with the mass.

Taking the reason why the girl was being ignored, thats pretty much what happened.

Edited by Irecinius, 16 March 2012 - 06:29 PM.

[Hellion Twins]

@Irecinius

About that, conformity is what happened in the manga.

That's not what happened to my teacher. Teachers aren't supposed to do such things, because hey, when you go to an excursion, if you're listed as not present when you're supposed to be there, and if you go missing, it's their responsibility you know. I was listed, on paper. But in her memories, I wasn't there. She herself can't say that I was not there. Because that would mean she'd have to cancel my presence on paper. It would mean negligence as a responsible adult. There are consequences that defeat that of non-conformity. I could have reported and got her sacked if I wanted to, if that was true.