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Why, oh why Kio Shimoku?


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#1
cloudbill

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            Why did Mr. Shimoku add insult to injury with poor Madarame? Not only is poor Madarame a loser in life but now he's also ... . I had a feeling it was heading this way I just kind of was hoping it wouldn't.



#2
TOxicHigh

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Why oh why? 



#3
KaazaLite

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A what? A pedophile? Well, yes, that would be bad but Sue's technically an adult.

 

A homo? You a homophobe? What the hell does it have to do with you if he's gay or bi? You're not one of those losers who sees Madarame as some kind of avatar for yourself are you? Besides, you would have to be gay to NOT be attracted to Hato. Yes, he's a guy so you wouldn't be serious about it but attraction? Hell yes.



#4
Mudakun

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Why is obvious. So that Madarame can be the coward.

 

It's Ok to feel a bit of 'phobosity, it is expected. It will keep you from noticing that it was Hato who chickened out by unrealistically upping the ante. Hato gets out of something he blundered into and Mada gets to carry the can.

 

Coward and Sou-uke; gotta play the role to keep the peanut gallery and the star happy.

Fer krissakes, Mada didn't say, bring on the tub of sex lube naow dammit! He was just saying, this is weird, lets see if it is too weird, or what. Bro is in a jam. I've been caught up in it. This might need some talking over.

 

Keiko was right.

 

And Kio Shimoku is (gently) rubbing the fangirls' noses in it

 

Easy, wasn't it?



#5
Mudakun

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Well I misread that one big time!

Shortly after my above griping ch120 raws get lose, were digested by bloggers and fans and content hints begin to emerge as to what is going on.
 
Hmmmm Cant find spoiler tag. use white text mode, highlight below to read:

 

So Madarame is no longer a coward. Hato is warning him off (but not telling him NO DAMMIT GET LOST!) and Mada is not yet scared off.

Somebody suggested that it was because while the girls were forward, Hato cooked and cleaned for injured Mada, cause that's all he could do.
Hato is not trapping as a trap. He is in fact throwing furniture in Mada's path as he backs off. Even mentioning his Hatomada fantasies and the MadaHato fantasies and all that means.
Madarame is not backing down yet. Mada is sick of being the coward? Mada is unfazed by the spectre of man-love. Maybe even Mada is looking at Hato and seeing escape maneuvers as a cue to chase. And Maybe Mada likes...

 

Wow... Threw me for a loop Kio Shimoku. Some fans will squeee, others will rage. At least Mada is no longer stuck in coward role.

Maybe after ch121 or 122? That would suck. and he prolly also lose a chance at Sue, Angela, even Keiko.
So Mada, a choice: Face the weird or lose it all.


Edited by Mudakun, 31 January 2016 - 03:28 AM.


#6
cloudbill

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A what? A pedophile? Well, yes, that would be bad but Sue's technically an adult.

 

A homo? You a homophobe? What the hell does it have to do with you if he's gay or bi? You're not one of those losers who sees Madarame as some kind of avatar for yourself are you? Besides, you would have to be gay to NOT be attracted to Hato. Yes, he's a guy so you wouldn't be serious about it but attraction? Hell yes.

 

I always assumed Sue was at least 18 at this point.

 

As far as being a "homophobe", I suppose I am a bit of one. Not to the point of violence or even protesting it in general. I have no issue with people being homosexual in and of itself. It's not something i would personally chose for myself and it isn't something I would be happy about if someone I cared about chose that path. I wouldn't be happy about it but I wouldn't ostracize that person for it either. That being said since I personally like the Madarame character I am not happy about where the path his choice is leading him. What makes this series good , for me at least, is ones ability to get invested in the individual characters and their growth.

 

Concerning your rather rude and ignorant accusation that I am a loser who over empathizes and super-imposes myself onto the Madarame character..........I am not. Maybe you should take a minute to yourself before you make such a blanket statement next time.

 

Internet heroes


Edited by cloudbill, 23 February 2016 - 07:34 PM.


#7
richardserious

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I think it's an interesting development that gives both of the characters some more depth and brings some humanity to the archetypes they represent. Ogiue's comparison to her relationship with Sasahara isn't a coincidence; This is a similar exploration of how these kind of fantasies can play out in real life. If you're not comfortable with that, maybe you shouldn't be reading seinen manga.



#8
cloudbill

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I think it's an interesting development that gives both of the characters some more depth and brings some humanity to the archetypes they represent. Ogiue's comparison to her relationship with Sasahara isn't a coincidence; This is a similar exploration of how these kind of fantasies can play out in real life. If you're not comfortable with that, maybe you shouldn't be reading seinen manga.

 

Seinen Manga rarely deals with male homosexuality. It often deals with a vast variety of sexual proclivities though just not with male homosexuality. That's what yaoi is for.

 

Overall I like the Genshiken series and the direction it is going still won't deter me from reading it. It is still a great series and I just stated my opinion without being rude or contemptuous. I can't say the same for some posters. I'm still at a loss as to why so many people want to play at being Internet Social Justice Heroes.



#9
AndriaAlex

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Seinen Manga rarely deals with male homosexuality. It often deals with a vast variety of sexual proclivities though just not with male homosexuality. That's what yaoi is for.

No, yaoi and BL is about fetishizing and idealizing homosexual relationships for the sake of turning on women. Yaoi and BL are all about fantasies. Seinin is not a genre, it's a demographic, and therefore it can deal with any number of subjects. Just as an example, Hourou Musuko was a seinin manga about a transgender boy and their growth into adulthood.

 

What Kio is trying to do is depict two people falling in love with one another who happen to both be men. People are being rude because you've made it clear that you have a problem with homosexuality and you're letting this bias effect the enjoyment you have for a great manga. There is nothing wrong with being gay and Madarame going out with a man changes nothing about his character. He's still a spineless goober otaku. Him falling for a man has no effect on that.



#10
Gandrel

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This series gets me laughing so hard that even the neighbours are scared. DAAAAANNNNGGGGG MADA- SENPAI! Gotta give props to Kio Shimoku she can make fillers better than DBZ, Naruto and One Piece together. I love to see Rame-Senpai squirm.



#11
cloudbill

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No, yaoi and BL is about fetishizing and idealizing homosexual relationships for the sake of turning on women. Yaoi and BL are all about fantasies. Seinin is not a genre, it's a demographic, and therefore it can deal with any number of subjects. Just as an example, Hourou Musuko was a seinin manga about a transgender boy and their growth into adulthood.

 

What Kio is trying to do is depict two people falling in love with one another who happen to both be men. People are being rude because you've made it clear that you have a problem with homosexuality and you're letting this bias effect the enjoyment you have for a great manga. There is nothing wrong with being gay and Madarame going out with a man changes nothing about his character. He's still a spineless goober otaku. Him falling for a man has no effect on that.

 

      Instead of having a problem with homosexuality I stated more along the lines of tolerance. Why is it that everyone is forced to either love or hate homosexuality? Why isn't a middle-ground an acceptable stance? It seems that in so called "enlightened first world culture", I say first world culture instead of western culture because the following seems to be, for the most part, the pervasive sentiment in both western and eastern first world countries (China can be considered both first world and third world at the same time so I'm not including them.), one must chose a side and that side has to be love. Just because I personally don't agree with homosexuality doesn't mean I'm declaring I want it wiped off the face of the earth. I don't have a problem with it's existence as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else, which it general doesn't.

 

      It is in fact rather hypocritical to champion homosexuality yet deny the ability for others to not be particularly enamored with it but still tolerate it.

 

      As far as the manga goes, I already stated I enjoyed the manga and Madarame seeming to be turning toward homosexuality would not stop me form continue to read, ie. enjoy it. I believe if a story is good it has the ability to draw in it's readers and form a sense of familiarity with it's characters. That is exactly what it did for me. Therefore I didn't really want Madarame to be homosexual but if he is it won't stop me from liking the character itself. Yes he's a moronic, indecisive loser but that's what makes him being put in the overall position that he is in so enjoyable.

 

    I never said I didn't like Genshiken but because I stated that I didn't like the author apparently steering the story toward Madarame being homosexual people have seemed to get atop their own personal social justice soap boxes and start telling me what a heinous crime it was to tolerate homosexuality but not wholeheartedly embrace it. Again it comes back to people wanting to play "Internet Social Justice Heroes" so that they can tell themselves that they are truly enlightened and upright individuals. It actually makes me a little sick to my stomach.


Edited by cloudbill, 04 March 2016 - 11:53 PM.


#12
SomeDuderr

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"Intolerance is not tolerated", goes the saying.

 

Anyway, my frustration with the manga isn't the topic of sexuality, it's how some characters are now used purely for their sexuality. While the blonde girl with the F-cup (We'll call her Tits McGee, can't recall her name) was a fairly minor character in the first run of the manga, with a quite liberal personality, she's portrayed as a hardcore sexfiend in the sequel (Suggesting a threesome with Madarame and the little kid). And don't start on the crossdresser character, who seems to have been invented just to go with the "trap" fad at the time...

 

Compare the first Genshiken to the sequel, and it's like a difference between day and night. What's worse is that the author identified this problem (Sequel not being as good as the first) in the first, only to fall into the trap herself. Remember chapter 54, which was entirely without any "spoken dialogue" (No text bubbles) where the character's actions were explained solely through the artwork and your knowledge of the character? That was a FANTASTIC chapter and a great second to last chapter to end the story with. I can't see the author pulling off the same kind of art with this dumpsterfire of a cast...