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Does Baam Think He Is Strong?

Baam

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#1
death2boredom

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TL/DR- Is Baam's problem simply that he doesn't see himself as a strong individual like the people around him? Could it be that his lack of confidence created by his lonesome past is what is holding him back? Are his friendships a crutch, a chain that holds him back, or his greatest asset? Is Baam simply a child afraid of being left alone like he once was?

 

With the introduction of the Cooker everyone is excited about Baam's potential growth in power, and even before then people have always wanted to see Baam become an over powered monster like the story seems to imply at times. However in thinking about what occurred in the latest chapter with Baam's rejection of "the power" that was offered to him, and more so, in trying to make it seem sensible to people that think he should have accepted it, a question came to mind. Does Baam think of himself as strong? Does he see himself as a capable individual able to single-handedly deal with any problems that may arrise? My thoughts on this are as follows, and I'd like anyone reading this to keep in mind that when I speak of Baam's thoughts, it is more probably how Baam thinks on the subconscious level.

Season 1 Baam definitely had a low opinion of himself and sought to become stronger alongside his friends with their help, but with Rachael's betrayal and FUG's intervention he was forced to become stronger on his own. Even Baam would have to admit that he was strong during his time as Viole, but even so, at the end of the day what saved him was his friends. If we take this back even further to his time in the cave, when Baam tried to escape on his own by building a tower he was still powerless to free himself from the cave, but through Rachael's seemingly simple effort what was once blocking his way was removed. Because of this, I have to think that Baam see's himself as someone that is powerless on his own. If Baam see's himself as such a person, then a lot of his actions make sense. He seeks friends and relationships because he feels he alone is nothing, and he denies greater power out of the fear that it would leave him alone.

However this lack of confidence in himself and a fear of loneliness may not be all negative. From a positive point of view, this mentality simply means that Baam trusts and relies on the abilities of his friends. Part of the reason he can reject a greater power is because he believes that even if he were to not become strong on his own, his friends that support him will supplement that. This is more in line with what Baam within Season 1 had initially wanted before Rachael's betrayal. More than the cut throat method displayed by others like Androssi and Ho on the Floor of Tests who valued their desires over any human relationships, Baam desired to value human relationships.

After Rachael's betrayal though, there is a clear change in Baam. While deep down he still values human relationships, it is clear that through Rachael's and FUG's actions Baam lost himself. In Season 2, as Viole, Baam started out acting as a fairly different person, but it was quickly revealed that he was still the same person. But Viole isn't really what I'm talking about, its Baam during the Hell Train Arc that is odd. Baam during the Hell Train Arc is alone. He is alone and doing whatever it takes to make himself stronger without relying on any of his friends and companions. The marital arts, the reliance on The Thorn, and the disregard for his own health all occurred from a desire to make himself stronger that Baam wouldn't normally display. I believe this occurred because of his time as Viole.

Though Baam may fear being alone, FUG forced him to be alone. FUG made it so that his presence was a danger to others, and in addition Rachael's betrayal made him question being with others. Because of this, Baam has been forced to take on the role of the strong individual. That is, until now. Through Hwa Ryun's harsh words and the God of Guardian's speech, Baam has started to think about what and who he truly is. Is he really someone capable of being strong on their own, or does he require allies? Should he make himself stronger so that his allies won't be harmed, or should he trust in his allies strength and abilities? Should he take on all the burden himself, or should he lessen it by sharing it among his friends? Is he a strong individual or is he a strong team member? Is he weak or is he strong?

As I see it, Baam initially thought of himself alone as weak or more so powerless. It is because of this that he initially both sought and valued companions, and later sought power for himself at any self sacrifice. What Baam needs to realize, is that he is indeed strong. He is strong of body and will, and if he trusts in his desire to have companions there is no reason for him to excessively burden and sacrifice himself for power. Some readers may not like that kind of conclusion, but I feel this is what is most like Baam. Baam is a child who knows the horrors of what true loneliness and powerlessness are. He was saved from that horror by others, and as such, I believe more than anything else, he would believe in the power of others.


Edited by death2boredom, 11 October 2015 - 10:28 PM.

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#2
salvatore

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I agree everything you've said. 

 

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He's desperate to keep up with them, he think they'll leave him behind if he's not strong enough. 



#3
Lester

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He's desperate to keep up with them, he think they'll leave him behind if he's not strong enough. 

His friends leave him behind even when (and in some cases because - hi Wangnan) he's far stronger than them. Sharks and fishes, like Quant said back in Season One.



#4
death2boredom

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I agree everything you've said. 

 

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He's desperate to keep up with them, he think they'll leave him behind if he's not strong enough. 

Wow, awesome job compiling all those together. And yea, I really hope this is what SIU is trying to get across. Baam is afraid of loneliness and is being pushed by that fear. Hopefully the Baam that comes out of the Cooker is a bit more self assured and stable.

 

His friends leave him behind even when (and in some cases because - hi Wangnan) he's far stronger than them. Sharks and fishes, like Quant said back in Season One.

Wangnan came back though, and its clear that he has his own hold ups when it comes to getting close to others and forming relationships. That would also be a reason for Baam to be afraid of power though. It'll be a dificult balancing act for sure though. Having Yuri and Urek on his side would help quite a bit though.


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#5
Diabolical Rhapsody

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I am not knowledgeable as you guys but I'll add in my two cents.

 

What Baam has in spades, he lacks in Self Confidence. He's a being driven by the fear of loneliness. Not as much as a fear of being left behind but a far deeper fear of being abandoned: losing touch completely. So he hungers for power to keep his friends alive and close to him.

 

What Yu Hang Sun did was manipulate his fear of being alone. He threatened his friends, he had him him toughen up and utilize his potential and be a slayer candidate but Baam also gained from the exchange. His will to protect is very strong, even when we saw Viole's debut in S2 with all the guys on the floor. What followed next summed him up.

 

He didn't disable them because he was a killer. No he did it because he didn't want to get close to them and end up having more people that he can't protect (He failed in this thanks to Wagnan & Co.) but what we can gain from this is that Baam never leaves the Good scale. He swings between Lawful Good and Chaotic Good but he never really crosses the proverbial grey area. I highly doubt that he has killed anyone till now.

 

But that's also why I like him as a character. Because coupled with Koon and Androssi or any other high stakes players, he is the complete opposite. I mean he is tenacious and headstrong and has a complete lack of self preservation but that's what makes him much interesting that other shounen characters.

 

I mean that test on 1F and then the face off with Urek. Two times, had it been anyone else they would have turned and run. But Baam stared them in the eye and came out alive. 

 

So in conclusion, I would like to say. Baam is as strong has his will allows him to be. Should things come to survival of his friends, he can surprise even some of the heavyweights for a moment.


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#6
Random-Webtoon-Fan

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His friends leave him behind even when (and in some cases because - hi Wangnan) he's far stronger than them. Sharks and fishes, like Quant said back in Season One.

Wasn't it actually Lero-ro?

 

Anyways I agree on that comment. He is too powerful to be with others, which is problematic because that is exactly he does not want.

 

 

 

About Baam's 'new powers', I agree on he needs to accept he does not need to fight alone. But what I think he really needs is a motive to fight and climb.

 

After 2nd 'fall' he began to question why he is climbing, the purpose rejected him. While I am personally very interested in Rachel as a character, it is sure Baam needs to grow up from the attachment. And find another reason to climb to the top.



#7
Lester

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Wasn't it actually Lero-ro?

I'm almost positive it was Quant. I think he said right before Androssi showed up to fight him, while looking on at the outcome of the Ho situation. It's memorable because you wouldn't expect anything genuinely insightful out of Quant.


Edited by Lester, 07 October 2015 - 04:03 PM.


#8
death2boredom

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I have to wonder if maybe I made the post too long... Anyone want to help me think of a tl:dr version?


Edited by death2boredom, 11 October 2015 - 10:08 PM.

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#9
Masterpace

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Maybe he doesn't per se need to get stronger cause he can have faith in his friends but because of the situations like in hell train he has to be the strongest...he can have friends but now he has to fight with Hoaqin alone...they can't help him so he has to be strong enough.

 

I agree with RWF that Baam needs his own reason to climb...without that he will never have any real motivation to get stronger and just better for himself and his friends.


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#10
death2boredom

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Maybe he doesn't per se need to get stronger cause he can have faith in his friends but because of the situations like in hell train he has to be the strongest...he can have friends but now he has to fight with Hoaqin alone...they can't help him so he has to be strong enough.

 

I agree with RWF that Baam needs his own reason to climb...without that he will never have any real motivation to get stronger and just better for himself and his friends.

I think the most important aspect is that Baam himself feels like he is strong and gains the confidence to follow whatever reason he comes up with to climb.


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#11
Jakken

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Baam thinks himself is strong as strong is he will to protect his friends OR meets Rachel again.

 

It's the same since the 1st chapters.

 

 

"Yeah, i will let that fucking giant eel eats me and ill surivive because i MUST follow Rachel wherever she is!"


Edited by Jakken, 12 October 2015 - 01:36 PM.


#12
death2boredom

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Baam thinks himself is strong as strong is he will to protect his friends OR meets Rachel again.

 

It's the same since the 1st chapters.

 

 

"Yeah, i will let that fucking giant eel eats me and ill surivive because i MUST follow Rachel wherever she is!"

All that means is that he's willing to give his life to escape loneliness.


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#13
Bryanky

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I hope he thinks he's strong with everyone calling him a monster every two seconds.

 

But then again a million people are also called "monsters" so i guess he might not feel very special 



#14
Random-Webtoon-Fan

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I'm almost positive it was Quant. I think he said right before Androssi showed up to fight him, while looking on at the outcome of the Ho situation. It's memorable because you wouldn't expect anything genuinely insightful out of Quant.


Yeah I was misremembering. It is chapter 49, to anyone curious.

http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-1-ep-49/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=50

LINE changed it to tiger and cats.... I guess it is easier to understand but still... The fish theme is lost....

#15
Lester

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Yeah I was misremembering. It is chapter 49, to anyone curious.

http://www.webtoons.com/en/fantasy/tower-of-god/season-1-ep-49/viewer?title_no=95&episode_no=50

LINE changed it to tiger and cats.... I guess it is easier to understand but still... The fish theme is lost....

Yeah, I've never even tried to read the LINE versions of Season One. They're part of the initial rush job of getting current for the site's launch, and I don't think they've ever been fixed. And the tC version are at all the usual places, so there's no reason to slum it.



#16
Diabolical Rhapsody

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I personally liked the Shark analogy. It brings out the insightful side of Quant much better plus the whole Fish theme the tower has. It somehow fits.

Edit: On a random note, I wish to know from anybody who knows Korean. What Mazino's Usurper's Fist actually translated as? Any help is appreciated.


Edited by RP Fiend, 24 October 2015 - 03:19 PM.

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#17
death2boredom

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I personally liked the Shark analogy. It brings out the insightful side of Quant much better plus the whole Fish theme the tower has. It somehow fits.

Edit: On a random note, I wish to know from anybody who knows Korean. What Mazino's Usurper's Fist actually translated as? Any help is appreciated.

It'd be better to ask that in Q&A . This thread isn't getting that many views from the people who could answer you.


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