Tsundere is one of my favorite 'archetypes' so I really don't see "abusive" (otherwise I probably wouldn't like it) Although when I think of abusive tsundere, I think of Kugi-types... just Louise really. I just brought it up because that's the first connection I could have gotten to get to "verbally abusive".
I do wonder, though, if having a "sharp tongue" 'automatically' means abusive. I'm still considering 'intent' here, although I suppose a victim wouldn't care about that (even if it's just teasing). And if it's accepted as normal within a circle (and there's no victim), how much of a problem is it really? (note: this is just for discussion's sake). Again, I feel like there has to be a "victim" there, and Erika almost always seem comically happy to play that role. And since the manga is pretty straightforward(?) I don't think we should look "between the lines" too much.
Just to clarify to viewers in case my thoughts seem contradictory: "Kyouya is verbally abusive. That's one of his traits... that his friends seem to have thought of as normal(?). How much of a negative is it considering that the manga itself doesn't seem to make a big deal out it?
Also, I still think that both characters got lucky with each other. With the given information (that Erika is kinda tough, and that Kyouya will probably get better, etc.), I think I can be optimistic about this fictional pair. Erika might do well keeping the relationship even if it's not the 'best' scenario. The manga has shown that there are other people who like Erika so she won't be left alone but she could get unlucky or just revert back to her "Wolf" self (which means she'll get into trouble again). Kyouya will probably have it worse though, in case if a breakup... Just sharing possible scenarios, excuse me for "straying" from the topic.
I have no idea what the difference between tsunderes are, or what kugi types are... but yeah! I don't think of most tsunderes as abusive either.
There isn't a problem with teasing if everyone's in on the joke. But there's a difference between making fun of someone/being made fun of and having fun with someone. There is no victim if it's just a joke (and everyone understands it's a joke because being made fun of for others' amusement and being teased+having fun with them is entirely different). I do think intent is important, because that's just a possible abusive situation coming from a misunderstanding, and people will probably want to fix things together. A victim is no different from any other happy person. People just sometimes land in bad situations.
Erika sometimes sincerely gets down from kyouya's remarks, iirc. And she seems to honestly believe that she's beneath kyouya because of the way kyouya and her talk. He belittles her a lot. Erika is easygoing naturally though, so she's willing to excuse it. victims don't always look their part, or act like they're being abused all the time. irl there are a lot of people who are often too-willing to excuse their abusers.
Mangas are made by flawed people too. Sometimes the creator might understand perfectly, or they might not understand abusive relationships themselves. I'm not sure what you meant, but I don't think Kyouya's behavior is a problem in the manga, and he's actually meant to be seen as a positive influence, but if it happened in real life, that behavior is pretty bad. He's just too mean and demeaning all the time.
The topic is interesting, i think it's better meant for the comments section since here's a little big with everything else, and the latest chapter might be leading up to some big plot point like that
i dont wanna just drop off without warning, so i'm formally announcing im probably gonna go back to lurking. I'm honestly not too used to discussions. I hope you get the answers to your other questions ^^
Edited by Yokohama, 30 January 2015 - 06:02 AM.