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Is poligamy a good concept?

poligamy

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#1
neorasp

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How would poligamy work in the modern world? What about reverse poligamy, with one wife and multiple husbands? What about a communa, with multiple wives and multiple husbands?

 

Anything related goes here.



#2
VawX

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In most cases, I guess one husband and one wife is what considered as the best, in my opinion polygamy is ok but not the reverse mmm...
Why? Well because with one husband and several wife, you can know quite easily who's the legitimate Father and Mother of the children since the  wives only impregnated by 1 man (which is their husband) mmm...
But in reverse polygamy family, you can't really know who's the real father of the children since you don't know which husbands' sperm reach the ovum and become the baby, so in the future it can lead bad things (like incest with cousin [though i think cousin x cousin is ok] mmm...



#3
Cautionary_Tale

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the only reason monogamy is considered "normal" is because most english speaking countries have a high percentage of christians and catholics whose beliefs regard polygamy as filthy or inherently wrong. without that particular religious angle, polygamy is not really a bad thing. maybe people in the middle east practice it and are very content. honestly, i dont think its impossible to love two completely different women equally. different doesnt mean less. and the reverse is true as well. if a woman loves 2 men the same, i see no problem with it. the whole multiple men/women thing is confusing though lol. they would all have to be bisexual or something for it to work out or some weird system of wife swapping....? i dont know. could work out anyway. whats really important at the end of the day is that they are happy and love each other right? thats my 2 cents anyway.



#4
narinari

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In most cases, I guess one husband and one wife is what considered as the best, in my opinion polygamy is ok but not the reverse mmm...
Why? Well because with one husband and several wife, you can know quite easily who's the legitimate Father and Mother of the children since the  wives only impregnated by 1 man (which is their husband) mmm...
But in reverse polygamy family, you can't really know who's the real father of the children since you don't know which husbands' sperm reach the ovum and become the baby, so in the future it can lead bad things (like incest with cousin [though i think cousin x cousin is ok] mmm...

 

This is why DNA tests exist.

 

Also, if two wives have children at the same time, the two children could easily become mixed up. It's not like the mothers will be perpetually attached to their children. And I don't think not knowing the "real" father would be as much of a problem as you think. I would imagine that in a polygamous relationship, children might even see all of the wives/husbands as their "real" parents.

 

the only reason monogamy is considered "normal" is because most english speaking countries have a high percentage of christians and catholics whose beliefs regard polygamy as filthy or inherently wrong. without that particular religious angle, polygamy is not really a bad thing. maybe people in the middle east practice it and are very content. honestly, i dont think its impossible to love two completely different women equally. different doesnt mean less. and the reverse is true as well. if a woman loves 2 men the same, i see no problem with it. the whole multiple men/women thing is confusing though lol. they would all have to be bisexual or something for it to work out or some weird system of wife swapping....? i dont know. could work out anyway. whats really important at the end of the day is that they are happy and love each other right? thats my 2 cents anyway.

 

No, it's not "normal" because of english-speaking countries with a high percentage of Christians. In India, polygamy is subject to religious law, so while Muslim men are permitted to have multiple wives, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, and Buddhists are not. Even in ancient China, monogamy was traditionally practiced, but of course, high-ranking individuals took multiple wives. Across all cultures, polygamy is generally a luxury reserved for elite men. Even Muslim men must be rather well-off to take multiple women. In accordance with the sharia of the Quran, a man with multiple wives must be able to provide for each wife and her children equally. With the elite taking multiple women, women became less available to lower-ranking men, and an absence of women always causes social unrest. For this reason and others, some speculate that monogamy arose to temper the social ills that are common in polygamous societies. Sexual frustration was one of the contributing factors to Bacon's Rebellion, and polygamous societies are linked with higher rates of rape and kidnapping among other things. See here for an extensive study on the issue.

 

As for my opinion on polygamy, I don't think it should really matter to anyone but the people involved.



#5
TheGrimReaper

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as long as you can support them financially, sexually, and love them equally , polygamy is a green light for me, 

 

and i've read some of the post above me mentioning "its impossible to love two wives equally" clearly you have seen the world enough to said that from your experience or you just said that from your perspective, 

 

i have an uncle, who practice polygamy, he have two wives and with that 3 child , 2 boys and one little girl, 

 

he's a pretty wealthy man, so he could support his child, his wives without any problem

and he love them both equally,the wives, i've seen the look in their faces, their eyes, its no different than the view of a woman in love

still in love and always full of love and caring, and they carried somehow a satisfied look all the time, there's no discontent,

whenever i ask "who's the first and second wive" they both answer me in almost like its syncing, 

 

"Does it even matter?" & "he married both of us at the same time?" , 

 

they were college mates, and they love the same man together, and what the heck right? since polygamy was allowed for my uncles, they took

the advantage to be together with the man their love 

 

the wives get along naturally as if they were sibling who grew up together, married to a same man, and tied by the same man, by law, and by marriage,

 

and when they take care of the child, 

they love all three child equally, they didnt treat the child any different from their own, their child even call both "mommy" and they comfort them

when they cry, rejoice when their happy, its pretty awkward when they pay visit to their friend's home, when people view their relationship in different way, but that doesnt stop them at all... 

 

and recently, 

well i cant blame my uncle, he's pretty aggressive in sexually ,  whenever we hang out together he cant help harassing beautiful women like an old pervert in a manga, i guess his vigor still strong as ever...

so he talked bout to take a 3rd wife, 

but before that, he consult both of his, asking permission, saying if they dont consent to it, he will respect their decision,

and he wont talk about to take another wife again

that is how much he love them both,

 

and another surprise is, both of them consent to it, i was really shocked about it too,

both of the wives ( after a few months and give a deep thought about it) allows it, 

from what i've heard (yes, i love to drop my ears on their conversation secretly , its not always you get an uncle that can show you the path of polygamy)

the wives we happy with their currently lifestyle, but they somehow cant keep up with their husbands sexual need most of the time

(damn uncle, you horny son of a gun)

 

they agreed to it, but only when they look at the 3rd women, on their choice , or its a no no

(its not like their jealous or anything , they just want to avoid gold digger women to be the third wives)

 

so somehow they both became the judge for the 3rd wife, my uncle is happy as ever

 

and i cant be jealous anymore than i am right now... wew

 

well, they found a young woman to be third wives, one who can take his sexual need aswell , happy in being a polygamy marriage, 

i heard that woman only 2 years older than me, and im 22 years old, and their wedding was held , kinda small quiet wedding coz 

somehow from what i've heard , the parents of their third wives kinda discontent with their daughter marrying to a family as a third wives,

like my uncle said, "there's always a complication, but we will get through with it anyway" (easy to say , for a man like you)

 

its been one and a half year since their marriage, she's (third wives) pregnant with his child, and same goes to the two other wives (pregnant aswell, i smell some kind of agreement here) and my uncle couldnt be any happier, 

 

tldr,

 

in short,  

financially

sexually

and equal love

polygamy = OK

 

disagree with reverse polygamy 

 

that's my opinion


Edited by TheGrimReaper, 27 September 2014 - 05:50 AM.


#6
StarvedShark

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I'm not that knowledgable on human relationships but I do know that monogamy is rare in other animal species. Maybe it's because humans have really long juvenile stages, so they need more parental investment?

I've also heard that humans may be inclined towards having a series of monogamous relationships.

 

Half-asleep hypothesising aside, I don't really care whether a relationship is monogamous, polygynous, polyandrous or anything else. As others have said, if the people involved have agreed to it and are happy enough it's not really anyone else's business.



#7
Evilnemesis

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disagree with reverse polygamy 

 

that's my opinion

 

Can you elaborate on why you think this way?



#8
TheGrimReaper

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Can you elaborate on why you think this way?

it was explain in the comment section by the manga , ill just go along with this guys since its the easiest to understand and the shortest

 

 

I think the only country where that can be is India, men from a low cast marry together a woman from an higher cast, grouping their money to do the  dowry.

Anyway, here, it's to solve the problem of declining birth rates, so making babies. A man can knock up multiples girl, but a girl cannot be knocked up by multiple men, so.

 

Ironically, that's how nature made it, sperm is cheap, ovum are rarer so more precious. Yet, if you look at it socially, it's like the woman is worth less.

 

 

not the most accurate description, but easiest and quickest and understandable opinion and responds


Edited by TheGrimReaper, 27 September 2014 - 05:24 AM.


#9
Evilnemesis

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it was explain in the comment section by the manga , ill just go along with this guys since its the easiest to understand and the shortest

 

 
 

 

not the most accurate description, but easiest and quickest and understandable opinion and responds

 

I don't really understand, this particular post only refers a specific cultural phenomon in India and babies.



#10
Solistia

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I actually have a friend in a polyamorous relationship, and all 3 partners love each other equally. Because of laws, the man is only married to one of the women, but rather than just both women loving the man, even the two women love each other, it's a very equal triangle on all sides. 

 

To me, love is love, and I can't say someone is wrong for loving one person of any gender or multiple people of any gender. If there's love on all sides, I don't see the problem. Even the popular youtuber Davey Wavey has 2 boyfriends (and they are seeking a 4th).



#11
TheGrimReaper

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I don't really understand, this particular post only refers a specific cultural phenomon in India and babies.

 

let's say remove india and baby

 

okay, say... whats the dif between an open relationship with multiple people (player) and polygamy?

 

its marriage, it ties them down together, 

 

say , eventually, both version of polygamy, male poly or female poly, 

the female got pregnant

 

male polygamy is 100% to be identified as the father to the babies inside the females

so basicly this is the best tactic the old ways use to preserve your genes and carry on your family generations

 

now, turn it clockwise with female polygamy

lets say, 10 men and a woman,

the woman pregnant, 

now, if today, its easy to identify the father using DNA test , 

but back in the old days? its like playing roulette, you'll never know if your child or not, 

you'll never know if its your child that been carried on, 

and somehow, 

(im not an expert in biology)

 

Female polygamy have better chance in having disease transmitted to them and their males with STD, HIV , AIDS and etc rather that male polygamy

 

male polygamy had been practice for centuries ,

and never before to be heard of that they have manage to get any deadly disease which infect easier to the female polygamy

and if to say its because they used protection better than female polygamy, they dont have condom hundred and thousand ages ago,

 

see genghis khan, they said his descendant are pretty much around the world today, so basically, with all those female he raped , or married, he never get infection despite no protection

 

if he were a she, i dont think she gonna last that long, or having alot of descendant to last to day

 

 

and male polygamy been used forever since from China (royalties, rich merchant ), to the old Kingdom of Europe (royalties, politic marriage), Arab (son of rich sultan, politic marriage , oil baron) and until today, which is the most obvious is the oil baron from Arab and the muslim since their religion allows them to marry to 4 wives at limit with condition they can be supported financially, love equally and sexually aswell,

 

i hope im not being too confusing here

 

simple say, from my view, i dont support reverse polygamy because of my own, (perhaps selfish, health, and trust) reasons


Edited by TheGrimReaper, 27 September 2014 - 08:15 AM.


#12
thorongil

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I don't have any problems in whatever kind of relationship people want to spend their days in,

by the way... how come nobody talks about bisexual relationships in the mix gayman-biman-woman, gaywoman-biwoman-man etc. .... just poitining out that there are more options ;)

 

the reason why polygamy is allowed in some countries/cultures is probably more profane... looking in most of the middle-east: just think about what kinda position women have within society...

 

from what i gather, if you look at how many bigamy relationships fail with tiny problems, polygamy would fuel the fires in many cases... most people are jealous (not necesarrily in matters of love) by nature, or rather egoistic and possessive... in theory it may be that there are many cases where open polyamorous factor will eveb help a relation ship.... .... .. just look at that as incentives for further discussion... my head isn't all that clear rigth now... just things that came to mind spontaneously

 

but:

if you look at polygamy, you should include all possibilities without restrictions or none, or rather the moment you define what partners(genderwise) are "allowed" you create problems from the get-go

i don't see any justified reason why men with multiple wives is ok but the other way round is not

and unlike harem, polygamy is genderneutral, so loose the "reverse" (concerning etymology)



#13
mitojee

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Narinari said it the best. Monogamy has become dominant probably due to socio-economic factors. Studies of animals such as lions has shown the inherent problem with  polygamy: young males become rivals to the alpha male, hence they are banished or they end up in battles for dominance. You can't have a truly egalitarian society if all the most fertile/desirable females are tied up with the wealthiest, hence for most men it's actually a better deal to have a monogamist society because their odds of getting a desirable mate is higher.

 

You also have the problem of wandering bands of males who become troublemakers. I believe there were reports about Mormon splinter groups that still (unofficially of course) practiced polygamy, that young males were forced to move away due to rivalry with the patriarchs.

 

Before we get into any ideas of "cultural superiority" of monogamist societies, let's not forget that modern Western society is full of rank hypocrisy with the practice of "serial" monogamy with people trading partners, in some cases people ending up with dozens or hundreds of sexual partners in their lifetimes, but since it wasn't all at the same time it's not considered "as bad" as polygamy. The wealthy also have always operated in their own sphere with the rich and powerful having caches of mistresses that are thinly veiled secrets who are only trotted out when they fall from political favor or when their marriages of convenience end in legal disputes.

 

Donald Sterling is only one such example, his most current, infamous mistress, just being the latest in a series that his wife had tacitly chosen to ignore for decades.



#14
kenjitamura

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the only reason monogamy is considered "normal" is because most english speaking countries have a high percentage of christians and catholics whose beliefs regard polygamy as filthy or inherently wrong. without that particular religious angle, polygamy is not really a bad thing. maybe people in the middle east practice it and are very content. honestly, i dont think its impossible to love two completely different women equally. different doesnt mean less. and the reverse is true as well. if a woman loves 2 men the same, i see no problem with it. the whole multiple men/women thing is confusing though lol. they would all have to be bisexual or something for it to work out or some weird system of wife swapping....? i dont know. could work out anyway. whats really important at the end of the day is that they are happy and love each other right? thats my 2 cents anyway.

Pretty sure Abraham had multiple wives... at what point in the bible did polygamy start to be regarded as heresy again?



#15
DrGynaecologist

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The word is polyandry, not reverse/female polygamy, that would be one woman with many wives. Also, you know, you lose a lot of respect when you describe polygamy as being fine as long as all partners love each other while condemning polyandry based on what I have to believe is a sexist distaste for sharing one one among multiple male partners.



#16
festiveghost

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This whole discussion is very educational thanks!!! :)



#17
TheGrimReaper

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Pretty sure Abraham had multiple wives... at what point in the bible did polygamy start to be regarded as heresy again?

New testament maybe?

This whole discussion is very educational thanks!!! :)

you're welcome, i find myself being educated aswell, found different perspective and opinion from different people kinda enlighten me up abit, but i stand tall and strong with my view



#18
Cautionary_Tale

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and i've read some of the post above me mentioning "its impossible to love two wives equally" clearly you have seen the world enough to said that from your experience or you just said that from your perspective

 

No one actually said that. I was the closest to the wording you used, but i said "i dont think its impossible to love two completely different women equally. different doesnt mean less..." etc.

 

so, while i understand your reaction, i would prefer you read things carefully before responding to them. i dont like being misquoted and/or misunderstood.


The word is polyandry, not reverse/female polygamy, that would be one woman with many wives. Also, you know, you lose a lot of respect when you describe polygamy as being fine as long as all partners love each other while condemning polyandry based on what I have to believe is a sexist distaste for sharing one one among multiple male partners.

 

i very much agree with you here.


Pretty sure Abraham had multiple wives... at what point in the bible did polygamy start to be regarded as heresy again?

whenever the marriage ceremony was invented/accepted as a catholic practice, im sure it became standardized and was viewed as "HOLY MATRIMONY", thus making all other versions of male/female relationships UNHOLY or HEATHENISH in the eyes of catholic church. when i think about it, i think it probably happened shortly after the western world was introduced to the eastern world during the clash of the Islamic religion and the catholic faith. or at least, thats were i would put my money. i dont know for sure though.

 

besides, the bible is so full of hypocrisy that its a wonder people regard it as the word of god. (i dont want to offend any religious people here, that is not my intent.)

 

 


 

No, it's not "normal" because of english-speaking countries with a high percentage of Christians. In India, polygamy is subject to religious law, so while Muslim men are permitted to have multiple wives, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, and Buddhists are not. Even in ancient China, monogamy was traditionally practiced, but of course, high-ranking individuals took multiple wives. Across all cultures, polygamy is generally a luxury reserved for elite men. Even Muslim men must be rather well-off to take multiple women. In accordance with the sharia of the Quran, a man with multiple wives must be able to provide for each wife and her children equally. With the elite taking multiple women, women became less available to lower-ranking men, and an absence of women always causes social unrest. For this reason and others, some speculate that monogamy arose to temper the social ills that are common in polygamous societies. Sexual frustration was one of the contributing factors to Bacon's Rebellion, and polygamous societies are linked with higher rates of rape and kidnapping among other things. See here for an extensive study on the issue.

 

As for my opinion on polygamy, I don't think it should really matter to anyone but the people involved.

 

 

Sorry, i come from america and 90%+ (exaggeration, but a really high amount) of americans are some denomination of christian or catholic. and marriage, though a religious ceremony, has economic and political implications that involve the government in some way. i was mostly speaking from the point of view of the social norms of my area. this is what is considered "normal to the society in which i live. thats all i meant. i dont know very much about the middle eastern and eastern views of marriage and/or what they find "normal". its simply does not fall within the limitations of my personal life experiences.


Edited by Cautionary_Tale, 13 February 2015 - 07:09 AM.


#19
Twisted13

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You can't have many wives unless your fuckin' rich to ensure they won't die of starvation. Real life is harsh on many levels.

Anyway any manga that has a polygamy concept?


Edited by Twisted13, 17 March 2015 - 09:57 AM.

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#20
TheGrimReaper

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You can't have many wives unless your fuckin' rich to ensure they won't die of starvation. Real life is harsh on many levels.

Anyway any manga that has a polygamy concept?

 

 

none as far as i know that exist currently, thats the thing, Japan took the harem's name and concept and involve it in their manga , but none , or most of them had a true harem development , most of them are fake harem ,that only have many girl in relationship (non sexual one) and then either choose only one at the end of the manga, or have an uncertain ending, or said to have harem, but only at the end, and no harem story develop at all, like in Fujimura kun mates, it said he finally married all the girl, but thats it, only said, and it didnt develop from that since the manga ended, 

 

dont even get me start on To love ru or other type of harem manga

 

 

 

in the end, the reason we are all into this manga by plot or not, its because this manga is showing us things  that we dont want to see but the thing we need to see,  development of a true harem in marriage... not only that, how they works, how they manage it between themselves, and etc

 

 

if you know other type of manga (not the wishy washy type of harem) , true harem manga like this, with marriage and etc, tell me, cuz i really wanna read them


Edited by TheGrimReaper, 05 April 2015 - 04:36 AM.