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Incredibly late question


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#1
jrusse18

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So the first time Rai told somebody to kneel and they just dropped to their face what did you think happened? The first time I saw it I actually thought they were obeying him out of instinct instead of it being mind control, like he stood so far above them in the food chain that their instinct actually surpassed their thoughts and forced them to obey.  Maybe it's because I don't read much vampire stuff that I didn't realize the obvious conclusion of a vampire using mind control or that I was having a long debate on instincts when I started reading, but anyways I wanted to share that thought and see if anyone else had some weird theory that turned out to be wrong.



#2
d1r31

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I think that it is purely his mind control ability that enables him to control the opponents body. This contrasts greatly to Rai's support of "free will". The person wants to move his body & fight, but Rai has taken that ability away from them. Their mind is still free to think, but their body is no longer under their own control. It is a monstrous power.

But while they sense his aura & may respond to that out of instinct, w/ fear, I don't think that their body stops just due to instinct. Their desire to fight has not been changed into an overriding feeling of fear. For example, Kranz was still very intent on trying to fight even though his body would not respond. Kranz still thought himself a superior being & was not instinctively cowed & certainly did not acknowledge that Rai might be superior to him.

I don't think Rai ever uses physical power to fight/ stop an opponent. Like when he stopped M-24 or Kranz --- he wasn't physically pushing them. He elegantly raises his hand, perhaps to focus his power, but the instant he makes the barest, gentlest contact, their body stops -- despite the intent of the body's owner, which is to move & fight.

I think that Rai is incapable of normal physical fighting. Too inelegant. Can you imagine him doing such things as kicking scratching, biting, punching, shoving, etc? Even elegant ninja style moves are too crass for him. However, he does have superior speed & stealth.

Edit: but I do think that there are some opponents who are so overwhelmed by Rai's aura, when it is not concealed by power limiters or otherwise suppressed/ sealed, that they are instinctively stopped. More of an instinct to save oneself from committing an act that would endanger oneself, self-defense, self-preservation. So in that respect, I think that your idea of instinct does have quite a bit of merit. Like that time when Regis instinctively stood up when Rai stood up & left the room. Instinctively acted polite to a superior. I don't think Rai uses his mind control ability to make Regis move like that.

Edited by d1r31, 07 September 2014 - 06:20 PM.


#3
DarkPrince

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It could as well be telekinesis too.
He just freezes them, maybe? That would explain why the opponents minds are still intact.

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#4
salvatore

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It could as well be telekinesis too.
He just freezes them, maybe? That would explain why the opponents minds are still intact.

''Stop''.....

 

Nope, it is not it. xD


It is pure mind control, because he can make people forget things.


Edited by salvatore, 30 September 2014 - 01:23 AM.


#5
DarkPrince

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''Stop''.....

 

Nope, it is not it. xD


It is pure mind control, because he can make people forget things.

Yeah, he can use mind control and make people forget things.

 

But whenever he made an opponent to kneel or freeze, they never lost control of their minds, just their bodies. That's why I think it's more likely he used telekinesis on them.

And it would also explain how that Family Head, whose specialty is his strength managed to break out of it.


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#6
salvatore

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Yeah, he can use mind control and make people forget things.

 

But whenever he made an opponent to kneel or freeze, they never lost control of their minds, just their bodies. That's why I think it's more likely he used telekinesis on them.

And it would also explain how that Family Head, whose specialty is his strength managed to break out of it.

I believe it is the same,a mind control, it is just that when someone is also a supernatural being, he may have enough strength to keep his mind intact, like when he told that guy to stop breathing, that wasn't a telekinesis but more like a mind control.

 

It is just like Regis and Seira, when they were investigating the incident in the hospital, they were able to question humans with their mind control how ever they please and ask questions then later erase their memories, but when they encountered someone who's also a supernatural being, they could only able to control his external body a mere moment and not even mention his mind, they couldn't able to do it like they were doing with the humans because humans are weaker than them, then again Rei is also superior to Regis and Seira but at the same time he also can encounter opponents that's strong enough to resist his mind control or even if they can't, they are still strong enough not to lose their conscious. 



#7
DarkPrince

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I believe it is the same,a mind control, it is just that when someone is also a supernatural being, he may have enough strength to keep his mind intact, like when he told that guy to stop breathing, that wasn't a telekinesis but more like a mind control.

 

It is just like Regis and Seira, when they were investigating the incident in the hospital, they were able to question humans with their mind control how ever they please and ask questions then later erase their memories, but when they encountered someone who's also a supernatural being, they could only able to control his external body a mere moment and not even mention his mind, they couldn't able to do it like they were doing with the humans because humans are weaker than them, then again Rei is also superior to Regis and Seira but at the same time he also can encounter opponents that's strong enough to resist his mind control or even if they can't, they are still strong enough not to lose their conscious. 

Well, telekinesis could be used to make him stop breathing too :P

 

Regis and Seira forced those people to answer their questions through mind control, they weren't exactly conscious.

Every time Rai made his opponents kneel, or make their bodies do anything out of their control, the opponents were always conscious.

 

You do have a point. It just could be that either they are strong enough to remain conscious, or Rai leaves them like that on purpose... more likely the latter, IMO. IF that is the case.

 

But my point is: Mind control with their minds intact is kinda unusual. And that's why I think it's more likely to be telekinesis.


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#8
d1r31

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Rai can control anything w/ blood. BloodField poses a danger especially to anyone who possesses blood. That's why Union is developing Cyborgs like the 8th Elder to specifically fight Nobles -- something more machine rather than physically flesh & blood. Telekinesis would still work on them, but the 8th ElderBots have power to move/ attack/ defend.

How he controls the blood in another being is probably a combination of skills -- blood affinity + mind control + telekinesis?

I think that moving the curtains on the curtain rod -- telekinesis. He's not controlling a mind -- the curtains don't want to stay closed by choice, so it's not like he is overriding the will of the curtains. (Just physics -- a body at rest tends to stay at rest.)

But when he controls someone's body, while leaving their mind free to think... That's tricky. He's overriding the physical impulses from brain to body, but not overriding the intention (to move, to fight, to resist). So it's not like the Jedi mind trick, where the person's thoughts change & become the same as what the Jedi has suggested. In that respect, not the usual "mind control". Rai's "victims" are still quite lucid & thinking independently.