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Gender, GID, and related discussion


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#41
SaitamaBro

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Not once did Christ speak on sexuality, or sexual matters.

20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” Mark 7

 

16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.” Matthew 15

 

Marriage i between a man and a woman(he also says that), so sex between people of the same sex is imoral.

 

 

 
 
However the old and new Testament talks a lot about eunuchs, and basically they are OK according to the bible.

Except eunuchs are not the same as transgender, it's just a man that can't have children. Legally female or not, to God it makes no diference since he doesn't follow trends and laws made by human society.

 

About Ranma, he didn't like being kissed by a man, and he only have any romantic interest in one when he is forced to by magic. He flirted with boys to get free food and he flirted with Ryoga to make Akane jealous because he didn't like Roga being close to her.



#42
gothicshark

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20 He went on: “What comes out of a person is what defiles them. 21 For it is from within, out of a person’s heart, that evil thoughts come—sexual immorality, theft, murder, 22 adultery, greed, malice, deceit, lewdness, envy, slander, arrogance and folly. 23 All these evils come from inside and defile a person.” Mark 7
 
16 “Are you still so dull?” Jesus asked them. 17 “Don’t you see that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the body? 18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander. 20 These are what defile a person; but eating with unwashed hands does not defile them.” Matthew 15
 
Marriage i between a man and a woman(he also says that), so sex between people of the same sex is imoral.
 
 
Except eunuchs are not the same as transgender, it's just a man that can't have children. Legally female or not, to God it makes no diference since he doesn't follow trends and laws made by human society.
 
About Ranma, he didn't like being kissed by a man, and he only have any romantic interest in one when he is forced to by magic. He flirted with boys to get free food and he flirted with Ryoga to make Akane jealous because he didn't like Roga being close to her.

 
Highlighted word is = πορνεῖαι ([/size]porneia) which mean fornication now lets translate that word into Hebrew, since that is what he was speaking. תַּזְנוּת[/size] (taznuth)= Harlotry, premarital sex, prostitution. 
Yes, you found the chapter where he told women not to have sex, until marriage. It has nothing to do with sexuality. 
 
And you have no understanding of Transgender history, to think you can separate eunuchs from trans. Learn to history. 
 

Marriage i between a man and a woman(he also says that)

 
 
Ok, to disassemble this, and look at it closely. I assume that you mean to say 'Christ said Marriage IS between a Man and a Woman'. Sorry very wrong, in fact on the subject of Marriage Christ could give 2 s***s, this is what he said:
 
Luke 20:26-38
26 And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.
27 Then came to him certain of the Sadducees, which deny that there is any resurrection; and they asked him,
28 Saying, Master, Moses wrote unto us, If any man's brother die, having a wife, and he die without children, that his brother should take his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother.
29 There were therefore seven brethren: and the first took a wife, and died without children.
30 And the second took her to wife, and he died childless.
31 And the third took her; and in like manner the seven also: and they left no children, and died.
32 Last of all the woman died also.
33 Therefore in the resurrection whose wife of them is she? for seven had her to wife.
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.
37 Now that the dead are raised, even Moses shewed at the bush, when he calleth the Lord the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.
38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.
Now what did he Just say? Marriage is meaningless in the eyes of heaven, once you die and are resurrected, you are as the angels.

---

 

Now for your sake, please do not continue your defense of modern Bigoted Christianity, because I know the Bible a whole lot better than you, and I can read Greek and Hebrew. I have studied this a lot for reasons, and you do not want me to really get into this. Because I can easily shatter your world view using Christs words, and the actual meanings of the Torah. As a kindness, I do not want to proceed. But if you spew more uneducated  words of hate I will destroy your belief in Christ. 


Edited by gothicshark, 05 October 2015 - 09:26 PM.


#43
SaitamaBro

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Highlighted word is = πορνεῖαι ([/size]porneia) which mean fornication

Wich means sex outside of marriage.

Harlotry, premarital sex, prostitution. 
Yes, you found the chapter where he told women not to have sex, until marriage. It has nothing to do with sexuality.

You do know that premarital sex and prostitution are valid for men too, right(the same man you described while talking of eunuchs)? And that men can't have sex with other men because they aren't married, and they can't be married because marriage is between a man and a woman as Jesus said in the bible. If you can't understand simple logic you should rethink your priorities, instead of taking greek and hebrew classes, you should take some in common sense.

 
And you have no understanding of Transgender history, to think you can separate eunuchs from trans. Learn to history.

Well, eunuch is not a synonim of trangender, it's a man who can't or choose to not marry and have kids.

 
Ok, to disassemble this, and look at it closely. I assume that you mean to say 'Christ said Marriage IS between a Man and a Woman'. Sorry very wrong,

He did say it, a man and a woman, what God unites can't be separated, etc.

 
Now what did he Just say? Marriage is meaningless in the eyes of heaven, once you die and are resurrected, you are as the angels.

So? How does this change the fact that he spoke of homossexuality(sexual immorality) and that eunuchs are not transgender?

 
Now for your sake, please do not continue your defense of modern Bigoted Christianity, because I know the Bible a whole lot better than you, and I can read Greek and Hebrew. I have studied this a lot for reasons, and you do not want me to really get into this. Because I can easily shatter your world view using Christs words, and the actual meanings of the Torah. As a kindness, I do not want to proceed. But if you spew more uneducated  words of hate I will destroy your belief in Christ. 

Good luck with that, and since you are so kind i will give you one advice stop talking like a disney villain.



#44
ReilaChan

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Unsurprisingly, things appear to have gotten rather heated...it would be nice if a larger number of people could be more open minded about a lot of things.

It's saddening that so many people seem to lose their heads as soon as conversation comes up regarding LGBTIQ topics, and all the other things that can branch out from that...religion is also a great way to start a flame war.

Anyways...I feel like pulling things back around to the whole transgender theme relating to the manga, it actually bugs me a bit the way Mizuki clings so tightly to those ideals about being 'manly', in fact it edges close to chauvinism.

Granted, a lot of that could well be attributed to how he was raised, while appreciating, and liking things stereotypically 'feminine', he denies himself and his own feelings as he tries to hide that 'embarrassing' part of himself in an effort to appear more 'manly'. I believe that all people should be free to be true to themselves and like the things they like, rather than being forced to hide for fear of disappointing family, themselves, or others.

I'm not going to get involved with the whole intellectual/religious flame war, though I dislike how Mizuki keeps on trying to do things that 'ir current body is incapable of, it's just going to get 'ir hurt for no reason.

Mizuki's been brainwashed pretty well by 'ir chauvinist father, I want to see her overcome those ideals and discover her(or his) true self, without being chained down by the past and her upbringing.

 

Maybe I'm just a weirdo to some people, but I don't mind that, I choose to live MY life MY way, and damn all who think I should be otherwise.

I'm a transsexual female, and a lesbian as well, but I also consider myself to be a Christian, bit of a mixed bag in comparison to some of the others who have posted. ;)  As a Christian however, I do NOT follow the bible, for the bible is a book, an old one true, but still a book that was written by MEN, and men (talking about humans in general) will always be biased one way or another, as they will generally only portray things through their own individual, opinionated view.  The 10 Commandments are the main things I consider, perhaps some of you other 'Christians' and 'Catholics' and the like ought to look back over those, and see how the bible defers from them.

That's as far as I'll go into that, I understand that I have now chosen to participate in this little debate if only in a small way, but back onto the manga, I look forward to seeing more, and seeing Mizuki mature as a PERSON, rather than simply as either a man or woman.

 

Also as with some of the other *trans who have posted, I agree that it would be heavenly if changing sex was as simple as 'flicking a switch' as it were. ;)


Edited by ReilaChan, 27 November 2015 - 02:47 PM.


#45
Ironclad

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First you're all idiots for expecting a comedy to give you serious commentary on gender issues. I suppose you think it's a good source for Norse mythology too? Why don't you analyze how this contrasts with the Poetic Edda next!

 

Second, conceptions of mental health and social constructs of gender identity are very culturally specific. Trying to apply a diagnosis from the DSM or morals from scripture here is ridiculous. Even in it's latest iteration which was just ratified, the diagnosistic criteria are highly controversial within the American medical community and even more so in other nations. All these charts and citations were created within a bubble of Western academia without even consensus from the American Psychology Association. Do I even need explain why the people of a tiny island nation that had a policy of isolationism for centuries wouldn't give a shit about the values of an Abrahamic religion?

 

Someone mentioned that other manga, IS, that focused on the everyday life of intersex individuals more realistically. I suppose it's a better source on the Japanese perspective regarding gender identity, but even that just wandered aimlessly with no real insights. In the first place the mangaka isn't an authority on the subject or a reliable way of gauging the cultural values of the entire nation. The worst aspect of that manga was that it failed to be realistic from it's very first plot line. The intersex newborn had two completely typical sets of genitals, somehow one of each sex chromosome. That's 4 gonads. That involves more than intersexuality that's a perfect duplication yet somehow polar opposite differentiation. Most intersex individuals have one ambiguous gonad and one recognizable testicle or ovary though not necessarily functional. But no in their ignorance, the author created some magical, illuminati, transhumanist god that had a destiny to overcome all gender barriers but was thwarted by the limitations of our mortal world and feeble science. It gets even worse when they treat the life threatening hormone deficiencies that leave the protagonist anemic and feinting as equally important to the stupid high school romance.


Edited by Jahiliyyah, 17 December 2015 - 09:35 AM.


#46
PieceOfSchmittGames

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True, but you also have to remember that doujinshi like this are typically aimed towards a "Male" audience. I don't think too many would really be into "yaoi" scenarios.

 

Tbh I think it's more that more males like yuri while more women like yaoi. Just what I've experienced.


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#47
Kiri Komori

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As a trans person myself, I really enjoy this manga !

 

I think it's quite a good metaphor and it does sum up a lot of things in my life ;)

 

In my case, I only realized I was in love with my best friend AFTER I transition'd, but when I think about it, I always was. I was just unable to admit it until I transition'd.

 

I thought I was lesbian all my life but was eventually forced to admit I was bi. I guess we are all a little bi when we are born, but society usually does a good job at making us think homosexuality is disgusting.

 

By the way I consider myself more like a boy than a girl, gender wise, which doesn't change the fact that I'm more at ease and feel a lot more 'normal' with oestrogens and a vagina. I don't think your genitals have much to do with your gender either way.