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Petitioning Naver LINE translation quality

Naver LINE petition quality translation

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#1
Gendalph

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This thread is for drafting a petition text for Naver about quality of their webtoon translations on LINE, which was launched recently.

As I've suggested earlier we should petition Naver, because their translations are horrible: they lack proper proofreading and overall choosing of name translations is questionable.

You can find LINE here: http://m.webtoons.com/
Yes, there is only mobile version for now.

What I suggest: we should find a bunch of bad translations and attach them to petition with explanation why community considers them as such, plus we need to come up with a formal text for petition (sadly, my English is lacking on this part).
After we have both I'll create an online petition (on Change or somewhere else) and I'll try to convince Grumpy to post that petition in Announcements.

#2
Will of NGE

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Tomorrow is Sunday, so I'll probably have the whole day to myself, I'll cover as many chapters as I can, looking for mistakes and NAMES UNFITTING.

SIU wrote the names for the korean language. TheCompany has done a wonderful job of modifying those names to fit the english speaking audience.
Localization is done to fit different audience for better understanding, reading and flow.

Close or original sounding names does not mean they are the right ones for the non-korean audience. Best example, Princess Androssi Zahard, or... as official word goes... Endorsi. Yeah, our Princess's name was inspired by an endorsment. See what's wrong with "close" sounding names? That's why localization is done.


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#3
Shrimpeh

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i don't know much about these kind of things, but how about trying to convince them to work with fan-groups/scanlators?

 

Since unlike manga, webtoons are already freely hosted on their sites afaik, so copyright won't be a big problem like with manga, for example.

(free doesn't mean it's not copyrighted, i know, but i think you get what i mean ;) )

 

Ofcourse, fan-groups/scanlators have to agree to it, too.

 

it can be a win-win situation, if done right


Edited by Alex Shrimpostur, 19 July 2014 - 08:38 PM.

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#4
Will of NGE

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i don't know much about these kind of things, but how about trying to convincing them to work with fan-groups/scanlators?

 

Since unlike manga, webtoons are already freely hosted on their sites afaik, so copyright won't be a big problem like with manga, for example.

(free doesn't mean it's not copyrighted, i know, but i think you get what i mean ;) )

 

Ofcourse, fan-groups/scanlators have to agree to it, too.

 

it can be a win-win situation, if done right

 

Exactly what I said a long time ago when character names were put into question, I think it was when Koon's name was in danger.

 

EDIT: Here are some more posts about it.

 

 

 

OK, saying this to whoever that hasn't stepped on the forums, where all is explained. 

Naver has oficially released webtoons in english. Some of the most famous ones ,like ToG or Noblesse, are up to date, whereas some others are not.

The problem is that they have *kindly* *suggested* The Company and Mangacow to drop all webtoons. The spanish and any other languages that have webtoons seem not to have any problem, for now.

Translations are crappy, but as ToG fandom have already told them numerous times, they have hired a proofreader who is slowly improving translations. You can help them by going here and making a point of all the errors you see: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Su1TkRDYjgUNFnTfWcKGEvrqMj9RoOW2I5pQNTyX-Q/edit?pli=1 . Only of ToG, though. I don't know about other webtoons but you can look for them, and even create them :) .

Lastly, but not least, the names.

Korean fans have already stated most of the "official" names are actually better than thsoe of the Company- I suppose tC did names that people were more accostumed to hear, not the most accurate ones.

So that's that. Both good and bad things-

 

 

Korean fans, KOREAN fans. Not people outside. What sounds right in one language definetly not not mean it sounds good in another.

And I already sent them a nicely (NICELY) worded complaint about their site layout and the cringeworthy names. That's the first thing I did when I saw the names.

Site layout was fixed by TheCompany. Names have to be fixed by NAVER or myself in Paint.

 

 

Yes, we took down English translations of and removed ToG from Top Comics section due to DMCA notice.

Quoting what Grumpy said on IRC:

My personal comments:
As far as I understand his intentions - we will insist on getting proper DMCA notice, until then there is minimal probability in removing other comics.
Also, DMCA should cover only English translations of Naver's webcomics (speculation: probably only those, that are present on LINE).

PS: I encourage petitioning Naver about quality of their translations. I think that even if we can get 10000 people to sign a petition, it should have an impact.
Good idea would be linking frames with low quality translations (and explaining why they're bad) in petition.
PPS: If petition fails I have some ideas, but... Let's try petitioning first.

 

 

Literal word-for-word accuracy (or syllable-for-syllable accuracy, with names) is not the goal of translation; the fact that the official Line translators are fixated on it shows how badly they suck.

 

Translation involves a degree of figuring out what sounds best in the target language, not just running everything through a super-accurate version of babelfish or translating it with a dictionary.  Otherwise you end up with results that sound terrible and which read in a stilted, awkward fashion; that is actually a bad translation, because even if you're literally getting the best word-for-word match, you're not conveying the meaning or intent of the original.

 

If it sounds bad in the translation, and it wasn't intended to sound bad in the original, then you're translating it badly no matter how accurate you think it is.


Edited by Will of NGE, 20 July 2014 - 06:14 AM.

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#5
Random-Webtoon-Fan

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The names are weird even in Korean. They are never meant to be 'flow' because its names from a fantasy world where all sorts of cultures are mixed in.


I am all for fixing the problematic translation quality (made a doc so people can work together pointing out mistakes https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Su1TkRDYjgUNFnTfWcKGEvrqMj9RoOW2I5pQNTyX-Q/edit ) but can we please stop complaining about name changes that actually follows author's intention?

#6
Mizura

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You know, guys, the translations actually sound a lot better now that they've had a proofreader look over it. The proofreader was obviously in a hurry, but his language level is obviously quite decent. If he looks over the translations one more time, that should be enough to make the translations decent enough.

 

As for the names, I can't agree with you either. The Line translators have obviously already made concessions with the names by not using what SIU originally intended, to try to make them sound a bit better to western readers, while simultaneously not straying too far from the originals.

 

You'll have a much easier time getting yourselves heard if you at least acknowledge the improvements that Line has done so far. Unlike most of you, I've actually tried to proofread the now better translations, and there are significantly fewer issues compared to before.


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#7
Random-Webtoon-Fan

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Ex) Our main character is literally named Night and sounds/written exactly like chesnut.

Yuri means 'glass'

Shibisu can mean 'a guy who failed exam 12 times'

Anak can mean 'old married woman'

Jah Wangnan is 'I am prince' backwards.

Yeo Goseng means 'female high school student'

Gyetang came from 'Samgyetan' which is a tranditional chiken soup.

Urek came from 'soft shelled clam' which is read as 'Uruk' in Korean.

Prince, Apple, Love, Lurker - do I have to tell you.

Edited by Random-Webtoon-Fan, 20 July 2014 - 07:08 AM.


#8
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I don't have a problem with the names as long as they do not affect the flow of tge story (and I get used to them) - that I can swallow, but what really bothers me is the quality of the translations. They should at least be understandable without the reader putting effort into understanding them - if you get what I mean..

#9
themantarays

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It's normally about 30 chapters before I start to remember people's names anyway. XD

 

I'll sign a petition, but not with demands about names. One way or another, the names and their meanings are just not going to translate, and whether you decide to keep to the phonetics or the meaning, I don't really care as long as it's consistent.



#10
Will of NGE

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Ex) Our main character is literally named Night and sounds/written exactly like chesnut.

Yuri means 'glass'

Shibisu can mean 'a guy who failed exam 12 times'

Anak can mean 'old married woman'

Jah Wangnan is 'I am prince' backwards.

Yeo Goseng means 'female high school student'

Gyetang came from 'Samgyetan' which is a tranditional chiken soup.

Urek came from 'soft shelled clam' which is read as 'Uruk' in Korean.

Prince, Apple, Love, Lurker - do I have to tell you.

 

Why "Bam", what is wrong with Baam? Baam sounds soft, Bam sounds like a sudden loud noise, short and sharp. Since it's just one "a", and the name wasn't butchered to death, I don't hold it too much against them.

Shibisu sounds like a car brand.

Nothing against other examples you provided, they're basically same as what TheCompany "used", with the exception of extra "h" in "Jah Wangnan".

Let me give you a painful, painful example. Endorsi, endorsment. It's just as bad as Andorthy. THAT'S WHY LOCALIZATION IS DONE!

We've been using these names for what, 3 years? GOOD, REASONABLE, THOUGHT OUT NAMES! I can understand "fan groups are not authorities", but I'd say since the fans are of countless different origins and languages, that we have a rightful say in what is right. One thing is easier to conform than many. And it is just names! A very simple thing to adjust for the foreign readers who have been hearing those names for THREE YEARS.

I am not being unreasonable, names are a big part of the impression, and having the names changed after so much time, after we got accustomed to them would be a painful and useless transition that pointlessly hurts the readers, and the only reason I see for changing names now is "because we said so".

 

 

"NAMES ARE NOT TO BE PLACED HERE.

While some may prefer the names of fan translations they have been used to, the LINE translations are far more closer to what SIU originally wrote and does not need to change"

THAT STATEMENT IS WRONG! Again, for the nth time, close does not equal good. THAT'S WHY LOCALIZATION EXISTS! Sometimes, things just don't transfer well, and that's simply part of translations. Many english word games and puns do not translate or make any sense in croatian, and that is simply the nature of language differences. THAT'S WHY LOCALIZATION EXISTS!

It is their duty to translate text properly, this is not something we must ask them to, it is their JOB. But the names are different. Names do not convey meaning behind words said and thus do not really foreshadow or imply meanings, Name is a name, not a wordplay to secretely hint something to another character.


Edited by Will of NGE, 20 July 2014 - 09:17 AM.

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#11
BehindTheLighT

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not this name crap again... NGE, why should they care about the names you are accoustomed to?

 

I'll say again, a name that is strange for you may not be strange for me, or viceversa. The first part of the name Androssi in italian means man/male XD I assure you that sound quite strange in my language, at least Andorthy would be an actual name :P
 


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#12
Random-Webtoon-Fan

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I just gave list of about a dozen examples of names that are stupid/silly in original Korean by decision of author himself. And half of them improtant characters.


Yet about no one among countless fans give a fuck.


SIU makes weird names. Its part of his work. Get over it.

#13
Will of NGE

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Then I'll fucking correct them in Paint if I have to.

I will not have my reading experience and the impression of story and character be endangered by someone's stubborn nature to adapt to 3 years of foreign ToG existence.

I am honestly disappointed with you people. I really thought better of you.


Edited by Will of NGE, 20 July 2014 - 11:36 AM.

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#14
BehindTheLighT

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how could "reading experience and the impression of story and character be endangered" by a name, ugly as it may be is beyond me. Just call her whatever you like in your mind, is not difficult


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#15
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Oh, hey, cool. O_o I didn't even know this existed until now. <Proceeds to read *everything*>

 

P.S. I don't know why people care about ToG so much. <_<


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#16
Will of NGE

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how could "reading experience and the impression of story and character be endangered" by a name, ugly as it may be is beyond me. Just call her whatever you like in your mind, is not difficult

 

Read the colors and not the words.

BLUE RED GREEN PURPLE BLACK ORANGE


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#17
BehindTheLighT

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well, it isn't difficult for me, I suppose that arguing more about the subject would be useless


I'm italian, so please excuse me if my english is not very good, feel free to correct me.

 

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#18
Will of NGE

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It is not difficult, it is distracting.

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#19
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I didn't know about LINE up to this point, I think it's awesome to be able to read webtoons online while supporting the author.

If names and translations are less than optimal I'd say to endure it for now. First, they are probably going to get better if the site becomes successful and they can hire more/better people to work on them; second, we will eventually get used to the new names, I don't think it's that important.

 

I think we should all try to support the site, and if there is something that needs to change is the terrible website design and functioning, it's... dreadful. Also, there is quite a bit of .jpg compression artifacts, image quality should be better.

 

There are no ads that I can see, though. ¿Are they going to put them up later? ¿How is this being monetized?

 

-EDIT-

 

Nevermind, I didn't pay attention to the fact that it's made for mobile, but most people are going to read from a PC I wager, so it's probably not the smartest move to give people such a bad first impression until the regular site is released (it's in the making, right?)


Edited by dissident, 21 July 2014 - 01:45 PM.

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#20
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This is probably not the right thread for this and maybe other people have noticed this before but I'll point it out anyway since I found it funny. The translations are bad and the names questionable, that's what people keep talking about but some other changes feel weirder to me. In the first chapter of Annarasumanara they actually edited the image, the very original webcomic to swap out a 10,000 won Korean bill for a 10 dollar American bill. I laughed quite a bit since it looks so weirdly out of place since now Hamilton's face is all over the chapter. It's truly hilarious - seriously even if you haven't read the webcomic just check out the first chapter in comparison to the original. It's especially funny considering that the bill has an important role in the chapter and there's a part where it covers an entire "page" - in the original it looks normal, but in the Naver version the 10 dollar bill was clearly enlarged using something like photoshop so it looks somewhat blurry ahahah.

 

Apparently Naver set out to create the illusion that Annarasumanara is a story set in the USA. Not weird at all.


Edited by Mizukami, 24 July 2014 - 11:42 AM.