35 replies to this topic

[M3OW]

Hello, I'm M3OW. I've been typesetting, cleaning, and redrawing manga for a little bit over a year, and I've seen all other scanlating groups have different methods and guidelines about typesetting manga, and the reason for this post is to show the guides and rules that I use when I typeset, so that other people can learn or expand on their methods. Keep in mind that for most of these examples, I'll be using Photoshop, but both GIMP and P.net should have the same settings, just in different places.

Red Rules are rules that should be followed always. These are usually for leggibility.
Orange Rules are rules that should be followed usually. These are standard, but can change depending on the page.
Blue Rules are rules that I personally follow, but depends on your preference.

bonus rule) It's just manga. Have fun.

Positioning/Size

1) Text in text bubbles should be at the center of the bubble with an equal amount of padding on all sides, this mean the text should somewhat resemble the shape of the speach bubble.
The Reason we do this, is so that the text is kind of 'buffed' by white space in the middle of the middle. This seems trivial now, but remember, MOST people will read your scanlation in a browser, and the browser will resize the bubble if the user has a smaller monitor. This means the text might touch the sides if you're not careful.

2) The font size of all bubbles of the same font must be the same size on a page. If you feel a font should be bigger (shouting, ect), then that usually means to use a shouting font. Do NOT change a font-size to fit the page.
This is the biggest error I see in manga. People usually change every dialgoue bubble's font size in order to fit. If you do this, then it looks like the speaker is shouting and whispering words ("did you hear?" "WHAT" "The font size changes!"), and that confuses the reader. A way to combat this is to select all text layers, and then change the properties there, so they all have the same font size and leading (covered in the fonts section)

3) If there is one bubble with two or more parts (usually connected like in the example), then the two different bits of text need to be seperated. Keep in mind that there NEEDS to be an ellipsis or a comma at the end of the first part in order to show that they are combined ideas.
The reason we do this is because these bubbles are one line, but split up, and therefore we need to split up the lines as it is in the original. The reason for the ellipsis or comma is so that the reader can understand that the sentence doesn't end at "..should be together", and that the "do you?" is a connected idea.

4) If a word has less than 5 or 6 charecters, do not use a hyphen. Only use a hyphen when it is really nessisary. Also, if you do use a hyphen, try to put it where it seperates parts of a word. ("I am/Over-/joyed").
The reason you split a word at the end of a syllable is so it's easier to read. Keep in mind that if you're using honorifics (-san, -chan, ect), that the hyphen goes before the honofic, and not after the name itself.

5) A lot of times, a manga will have out-of-bubble text when a charecter whispers or mumbles something. This can be given a stoke and overlated over the main bubble to show that it's part of the same idea.
The reason we overlay the text is because the original text only fits when it's vertical in japanese. By placing it smaller and off to the side, we get the same effect. I reccomend Akbar or Ashcan as a font.

Punctuation

Source/Inspiration: Blambot.com/grammar

6) Do not use a period to end a bubble. You can use a period to end a sentence in a bubble however.
However, if a sentence is 2 or less words, then use a period to accent the statement. Usually this will happen when somebody says "No." or "I'm ready." If you do put a period here, use bolditalics. Also remember that since bolditalics is different from normal, you can break rule #2 and make it bigger for emphasis
The reason we don't use periods at the end of a bubble is because it's redundant. There's no reason tell the reader that the sentence is over if the bubble already does that. The reason you CAN add a period to small sentences is for dramatic effect.

7) If a charecter shouts a question, put the question mark before the exclamation point. Also, bolditalic the line.
The reason the question mark is first is because the charecter is exclaiming a question, not questioning a exclamation. The bold is just for emphasis

8) If there is any form of punctuation, (comma, question mark, exclamation), in the middle of a bubble, try to insert a line break right after that punctuation.
This seperates the two sentences in the bubble. Also, fast readers will read the line "Did you know how I? I didn't" and put the "I" in the first sentence.

9) If you are separating two thought boxes, (usually rectangles), use an ellipsis in order to show that they are part of the same idea, not a comma. (A comma is used for situations like #3). At the end of the whole thought, use a period.
You can also choose to use a special font for thoughts. However, if you do this, remember to capitalize the first word.
The ellipsis serves as a way to combine two ideas, but also, there will usually be something happening between the thought boxes, so the ellipsis also serves as a way for the reader to remember what the thought bubble was about. The period at the end marks the end of a group of boxes.

10) If there is any shouting or exclaimation that you feel should be in bolditalics, then it is also necessary to add exclaimation points.
If you feel that the bubble "works" without exclaimation, then it also does not need bolditalics. Keep in mind that you do need italics and bold, and to never use only bold. Also keep in mind that you require two exclaimation points if the bubble is one word or phrase.
 

[20:49:47] <M> Hello. I recently wrote down some typesetting guides/tutorials and i'd like to post it on the forums, but where should I put it?
[20:50:07] <M> I thought it would fit in Scanlator's Forums, but that's for specific groups
[20:52:22] <Gendalph> putting it in General should be a good idea
....
[20:55:11] <Gendalph> M, put your guides into General forums and pm me (Genda1ph) and a mod to pin it for you
[20:55:23] <Gendalph> it will get sorted out later

Edited by M3OW, 19 May 2014 - 02:10 AM.

[mimi25]

The font size of all bubbles of the same font must be the same size on a page. If you feel a font should be bigger (shouting, ect), then that usually means to use a shouting font. Do NOT change a font-size to fit the page.

 

This is the biggest error I see in manga. 

mm, that sometimes depends on the size of the bubble. Lots of times (specially in manga), bubbles are too narrow to actually be typeset with the same font size as other bubbles, so we gotta make changes. And well, there are times we gotta typeset in smaller or bigger font to follow the shape of the bubble.

 

So I think this one isn't necessarily a must follow. that's imo.

Edited by mimi25, 05 May 2014 - 05:57 AM.

[Chocolate Chip]

The font size of all bubbles of the same font must be the same size on a page. If you feel a font should be bigger (shouting, ect), then that usually means to use a shouting font. Do NOT change a font-size to fit the page.

 

Disagree. The original manga will often change the font size (without changing the font). When choosing font and size, I always consider how to best reproduce the visual aesthetic and feel of the original.

[mhh]

I've pinned this thread. I'll most likely make a forum for this kind of content at some stage.

 

(When I TS, which doesn't happen that often, I usually make it a rule to try to match the original. If the font size does not change I don't change mine either if I can help it. And if it does I do change it as well. etc.)

[αρняσɖιтє]

Like mimi & Chip said, the font sizes are not always the same and as well as the fonts are different. It depends on the width and height of the bubble/box or whatever its on.

[M3OW]

mm, that sometimes depends on the size of the bubble. Lots of times (specially in manga), bubbles are too narrow to actually be typeset with the same font size as other bubbles, so we gotta make changes. And well, there are times we gotta typeset in smaller or bigger font to follow the shape of the bubble.

 

So I think this one isn't necessarily a must follow. that's imo.

 

 

Disagree. The original manga will often change the font size (without changing the font). When choosing font and size, I always consider how to best reproduce the visual aesthetic and feel of the original.

 

I agree with Chocolate Chip, but not with Mimi. We can't just change the font size to fit the bubble, it's perfectly fine for there to be white space around the bubble. If we fill the bubble, it looks like a user's voice gets louder and softer randomly.

[mimi25]

 it's perfectly fine for there to be white space around the bubble. 

ofc it is.

I meant, the small bubbles. We can't typeset using the original font size as the others if the bubble is toooooo small. Tiny bubbles call for smaller fonts.

[M3OW]

ofc it is.
I meant, the small bubbles. We can't typeset using the original font size as the others if the bubble is toooooo small. Tiny bubbles call for smaller fonts.

Are you talking about moaning/sfx bubbles? if so, it might be better to use a different font to convey that emotion.

[Alcruid]

Are you talking about moaning/sfx bubbles? if so, it might be better to use a different font to convey that emotion.

 

I think she means when the bubbles are of the same size, but the text is bigger and takes more space, for example if it's supposed to be

"I haven't heard anything about this ridiculous news you're going to tell me now", the text is longer and doesn't fit, so she makes the font smaller, I think ._.

[M3OW]

I think she means when the bubbles are of the same size, but the text is bigger and takes more space, for example if it's supposed to be

"I haven't heard anything about this ridiculous news you're going to tell me now", the text is longer and doesn't fit, so she makes the font smaller, I think ._.

Well then (usually) you should resize every text layer that uses that same font, or else you could make that specific line a different font.

[mimi25]

Are you talking about moaning/sfx bubbles? 

Nah. You know, those long narrow bubbles, where it's hard to typeset long english texts...

 

I think she means when the bubbles are of the same size, but the text is bigger and takes more space, for example if it's supposed to be

"I haven't heard anything about this ridiculous news you're going to tell me now", the text is longer and doesn't fit, so she makes the font smaller, I think ._.

And this is also true.

[M3OW]

Nah. You know, those long narrow bubbles, where it's hard to typeset long english texts...

 

I would resort to hyphens, but it's up to you.

[svines85]

Spoiler

Hello, I'm M3OW. I've been typesetting, cleaning, and redrawing manga for a little bit over a year, and I've seen all other scanlating groups have different methods and guidelines about typesetting manga, and the reason for this post is to show the guides and rules that I use when I typeset, so that other people can learn or expand on their methods. Keep in mind that for most of these examples, I'll be using Photoshop, but both GIMP and P.net should have the same settings, just in different places.
 
Red Rules are rules that should be followed always. These are usually for leggibility.
Orange Rules are rules that should be followed usually. These are standard, but can change depending on the page.
Blue Rules are rules that I personally follow, but depends on your preference.
 
Positioning/Size
1) Text in text bubbles should be at the center of the bubble with an equal amount of padding on all sides, this mean the text should somewhat resemble the shape of the speach bubble.
 

Spoiler

The Reason we do this, is so that the text is kind of 'buffed' by white space in the middle of the middle. This seems trivial now, but remember, MOST people will read your scanlation in a browser, and the browser will resize the bubble if the user has a smaller monitor. This means the text might touch the sides if you're not careful.
 

 
2) The font size of all bubbles of the same font must be the same size on a page. If you feel a font should be bigger (shouting, ect), then that usually means to use a shouting font. Do NOT change a font-size to fit the page.
 

Spoiler

This is the biggest error I see in manga. People usually change every dialgoue bubble's font size in order to fit. If you do this, then it looks like the speaker is shouting and whispering words ("did you hear?" "WHAT" "The font size changes!"), and that confuses the reader. A way to combat this is to select all text layers, and then change the properties there, so they all have the same font size and leading (covered in the fonts section)
 

 
3) If there is one bubble with two or more parts (usually connected like in the example), then the two different bits of text need to be seperated. Keep in mind that there NEEDS to be an ellipsis or a comma at the end of the first part in order to show that they are combined ideas.
 

Spoiler

The reason we do this is because these bubbles are one line, but split up, and therefore we need to split up the lines as it is in the original. The reason for the ellipsis or comma is so that the reader can understand that the sentence doesn't end at "..should be together", and that the "do you?" is a connected idea.
 

 
4) If a word has less than 5 or 6 charecters, do not use a hyphen. Only use a hyphen when it is really nessisary. Also, if you do use a hyphen, try to put it where it seperates parts of a word. ("I am/Over-/joyed").
 

Spoiler

The reason you split a word at the end of a syllable is so it's easier to read. Keep in mind that if you're using honorifics (-san, -chan, ect), that the hyphen goes before the honofic, and not after the name itself.
 

 
5) A lot of times, a manga will have out-of-bubble text when a charecter whispers or mumbles something. This can be given a stoke and overlated over the main bubble to show that it's part of the same idea.
 

Spoiler

The reason we overlay the text is because the original text only fits when it's vertical in japanese. By placing it smaller and off to the side, we get the same effect. I reccomend Akbar or Ashcan as a font.

Punctuation
Source/Inspiration: Blambot.com/grammar

6) Do not use a period to end a bubble. You can use a period to end a sentence in a bubble however.
However, if a sentence is 2 or less words, then use a period to accent the statement. Usually this will happen when somebody says "No." or "I'm ready." If you do put a period here, use bolditalics. Also remember that since bolditalics is different from normal, you can break rule #2 and make it bigger for emphasis
 

Spoiler

The reason we don't use periods at the end of a bubble is because it's redundant. There's no reason tell the reader that the sentence is over if the bubble already does that. The reason you CAN add a period to small sentences is for dramatic effect.
 

 
7) If a charecter shouts a question, put the question mark before the exclamation point. Also, bolditalic the line.
 

Spoiler

The reason the question mark is first is because the charecter is exclaiming a question, not questioning a exclamation. The bold is just for emphasis
 

 
8) If there is any form of punctuation, (comma, question mark, exclamation), in the middle of a bubble, try to insert a line break right after that punctuation.
 

Spoiler

This seperates the two sentences in the bubble. Also, fast readers will read the line "Did you know how I? I didn't" and put the "I" in the first sentence.
 

 
9) If you are separating two thought boxes, (usually rectangles), use an ellipsis in order to show that they are part of the same idea, not a comma. (A comma is used for situations like #3). At the end of the whole thought, use a period.
You can also choose to use a special font for thoughts. However, if you do this, remember to capitalize the first word.
 

Spoiler

The ellipsis serves as a way to combine two ideas, but also, there will usually be something happening between the thought boxes, so the ellipsis also serves as a way for the reader to remember what the thought bubble was about. The period at the end marks the end of a group of boxes.
 

 

I think you've listed some pretty useful information for those interested in typesetting, though, as others have mentioned, there aren't always hard and fast rules on some of those points. Much can be subject to the individual styles of the typesetter/editor, groups, or the specific project that's being scanlated. 

[Daktyl]

Spoiler

Hello, I'm M3OW. I've been typesetting, cleaning, and redrawing manga for a little bit over a year, and I've seen all other scanlating groups have different methods and guidelines about typesetting manga, and the reason for this post is to show the guides and rules that I use when I typeset, so that other people can learn or expand on their methods. Keep in mind that for most of these examples, I'll be using Photoshop, but both GIMP and P.net should have the same settings, just in different places.
 
Red Rules are rules that should be followed always. These are usually for leggibility.
Orange Rules are rules that should be followed usually. These are standard, but can change depending on the page.
Blue Rules are rules that I personally follow, but depends on your preference.
 
Positioning/Size
1) Text in text bubbles should be at the center of the bubble with an equal amount of padding on all sides, this mean the text should somewhat resemble the shape of the speach bubble.
 

Spoiler

The Reason we do this, is so that the text is kind of 'buffed' by white space in the middle of the middle. This seems trivial now, but remember, MOST people will read your scanlation in a browser, and the browser will resize the bubble if the user has a smaller monitor. This means the text might touch the sides if you're not careful.
 

 
2) The font size of all bubbles of the same font must be the same size on a page. If you feel a font should be bigger (shouting, ect), then that usually means to use a shouting font. Do NOT change a font-size to fit the page.
 

Spoiler

This is the biggest error I see in manga. People usually change every dialgoue bubble's font size in order to fit. If you do this, then it looks like the speaker is shouting and whispering words ("did you hear?" "WHAT" "The font size changes!"), and that confuses the reader. A way to combat this is to select all text layers, and then change the properties there, so they all have the same font size and leading (covered in the fonts section)
 

 
3) If there is one bubble with two or more parts (usually connected like in the example), then the two different bits of text need to be seperated. Keep in mind that there NEEDS to be an ellipsis or a comma at the end of the first part in order to show that they are combined ideas.
 

Spoiler

The reason we do this is because these bubbles are one line, but split up, and therefore we need to split up the lines as it is in the original. The reason for the ellipsis or comma is so that the reader can understand that the sentence doesn't end at "..should be together", and that the "do you?" is a connected idea.
 

 
4) If a word has less than 5 or 6 charecters, do not use a hyphen. Only use a hyphen when it is really nessisary. Also, if you do use a hyphen, try to put it where it seperates parts of a word. ("I am/Over-/joyed").
 

Spoiler

The reason you split a word at the end of a syllable is so it's easier to read. Keep in mind that if you're using honorifics (-san, -chan, ect), that the hyphen goes before the honofic, and not after the name itself.
 

 
5) A lot of times, a manga will have out-of-bubble text when a charecter whispers or mumbles something. This can be given a stoke and overlated over the main bubble to show that it's part of the same idea.
 

Spoiler

The reason we overlay the text is because the original text only fits when it's vertical in japanese. By placing it smaller and off to the side, we get the same effect. I reccomend Akbar or Ashcan as a font.

Punctuation
Source/Inspiration: Blambot.com/grammar

6) Do not use a period to end a bubble. You can use a period to end a sentence in a bubble however.
However, if a sentence is 2 or less words, then use a period to accent the statement. Usually this will happen when somebody says "No." or "I'm ready." If you do put a period here, use bolditalics. Also remember that since bolditalics is different from normal, you can break rule #2 and make it bigger for emphasis
 

Spoiler

The reason we don't use periods at the end of a bubble is because it's redundant. There's no reason tell the reader that the sentence is over if the bubble already does that. The reason you CAN add a period to small sentences is for dramatic effect.
 

 
7) If a charecter shouts a question, put the question mark before the exclamation point. Also, bolditalic the line.
 

Spoiler

The reason the question mark is first is because the charecter is exclaiming a question, not questioning a exclamation. The bold is just for emphasis
 

 
8) If there is any form of punctuation, (comma, question mark, exclamation), in the middle of a bubble, try to insert a line break right after that punctuation.
 

Spoiler

This seperates the two sentences in the bubble. Also, fast readers will read the line "Did you know how I? I didn't" and put the "I" in the first sentence.
 

 
9) If you are separating two thought boxes, (usually rectangles), use an ellipsis in order to show that they are part of the same idea, not a comma. (A comma is used for situations like #3). At the end of the whole thought, use a period.
You can also choose to use a special font for thoughts. However, if you do this, remember to capitalize the first word.
 

Spoiler

The ellipsis serves as a way to combine two ideas, but also, there will usually be something happening between the thought boxes, so the ellipsis also serves as a way for the reader to remember what the thought bubble was about. The period at the end marks the end of a group of boxes.
 

While it's a great tutorial, I personally disagree with some of the information, but I'm getting some professional opinions about what I think is wrong before I make an ass out of myself >.<

[M3OW]

While it's a great tutorial, I personally disagree with some of the information, but I'm getting some professional opinions about what I think is wrong before I make an ass out of myself >.<

Like I said, red are hard rules for leggibility, orange are suggestions, and blue are personal choices.

[Nepenthe]

I personally disagree with some of the stylistic choices here. (Also a little ironic that you've misspelled legibility?) 

 

It's best to avoid using ellipsis if you can, as their use as end punctuation is a very recent phenomena. If you're going to be very technical, they shouldn't be used at all. Ellipsis were originally meant for use in scholarly writing. If someone was quoting a passage which contained extraneous information in the middle of it, they would use replace this extra information with ellipsis, to denote that text was removed. However, ellipsis are seeing a huge rise in popularity, and I can understand wanting to use them (and I do, with regularity). Just be aware that commas and ellipsis are not interchangeable, and using one versus the other changes the interpretation of the text.

 

The more problematic stylistic recommendation here, to me, is recommending against ending all sentences with periods. To the minds of most readers, a phrase without a period is not a complete thought. The example you provide above gives the impression that the first speaker has been interrupted, or that their mind has wandered off mid-sentence. It seems unprofessional. 

 

And note that a comma's intended purpose is to indicate a pause in the sentence. The example given in #9 actually should have a comma. 

[M3OW]

It's best to avoid using ellipsis if you can, as their use as end punctuation is a very recent phenomena. If you're going to be very technical, they shouldn't be used at all. Ellipsis were originally meant for use in scholarly writing. If someone was quoting a passage which contained extraneous information in the middle of it, they would use replace this extra information with ellipsis, to denote that text was removed. However, ellipsis are seeing a huge rise in popularity, and I can understand wanting to use them (and I do, with regularity). Just be aware that commas and ellipsis are not interchangeable, and using one versus the other changes the interpretation of the text.

Ellipsis are used in scholarly writing that way, but in comics, which at most times, but in even the earliest comics and manga, ellipsis have been used at times when a charecter's voice trails off. (1) (2), the reason you should use ellipsis is if a charecter's says something but doesn't end it.

In the example #9 it's important to note that the charecter isn't saying anything, but thinking it. I used an ellipsis here because usually, there will be art in the middle of the two bubbles. (Idealy,) The reader would read one bubble, look at the art and then look at the other bubble. This page is an example where I would use ellipsis
 

The more problematic stylistic recommendation here, to me, is recommending against ending all sentences with periods. To the minds of most readers, a phrase without a period is not a complete thought. The example you provide above gives the impression that the first speaker has been interrupted, or that their mind has wandered off mid-sentence. It seems unprofessional.

If a speaker is interrupted, then use two hyphens or cut out part of the bubble with the part the other charecter interrupted is. However, I put that as an orange rule, which is just a heavy suggestion, not something that bothers a reader, since if there's a period or not, they will still get the message.

Edited by M3OW, 09 May 2014 - 03:42 PM.

[svines85]

The more problematic stylistic recommendation here, to me, is recommending against ending all sentences with periods.

 

 

If a speaker is interrupted, then use two hyphens or cut out part of the bubble with the part the other charecter interrupted is. However, I put that as an orange rule, which is just a heavy suggestion, not something that bothers a reader, since if there's a period or not, they will still get the message.

 

It's also worth noting that not all comics/manga/scanlated manga/editors/typsetters,  use periods......any periods, in their work. "Comic writing" has a number of unique traditions... blah blah blah (Blambot quote   ), most notably here, regarding the use of the ellipsis and the period/full stop, that just don't conform to "normal" writing "rules". If I weren't so lazy I'd show you 7 or eight (out of around 30) of the comic strips in my morning paper that don't use periods. (here's an easy one, you'll see during this period Schulz didn't use 'em)   http://peanuts.wikia.com/wiki/October_1951_comic_strips

 

It's also worth noting that Japanese writing frequently omits the full stop "at the end" where a sentence stands alone (think manga bubbles) and it's only employed to separate consecutive sentences...........so yeah, there are a lot of editors/typesetters of scanlated works who just don't use periods. As I mentioned earlier, a lot of this is just a matter of preference/style. 

[αρняσɖιтє]

I believe the most accurate typeset tutorial is from RHS: http://www.redhawkscans.com/showthread.php?3308-Typesetting-introduction

They pretty much explain how its done their way, but its pretty accurate. Although it may look like what you explained about the font sizes, but there's a bit of changes in it.

[Horn]

The reason we don't use periods at the end of a bubble is because it's redundant. There's no reason tell the reader that the sentence is over if the bubble already does that. The reason you CAN add a period to small sentences is for dramatic effect.

Though you've yellowed this one, marking it as substandard, I'm still not entirely sure I follow. It's not really a question of redundancy. Not ending a sentence with punctuation is simply grammatically incorrect. I don't think I've ever seen a professional comic written in English that skips the periods.

The only times I've seen a bubble missing ending punctuation is when the sentence continues over into the next bubble. As you noted under 3), connected bubbles should always be noted with some sort of separation punctuation (like a comma or such), however in Japanese translations, there are occasions when "Will you" and "go out with me?" are separated in two bubbles. And writing it "Will you, go out with me?" makes the comma redundant. As such, you skip the comma, but if "no punctuation" means "period", then it messes the system up.

I'm sorry if I sound like a party pooper, lol. It's a fairly comprehensive list you've put together. However I do feel that slightly more of these are based on opinion/scan group than you might think...