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Shall we try to understand the story so far?


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#1
josh25

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Apologies in advance, I tried reading it in advance but still don't feel fully confident in my comprehension

The beginning was easy enough to understand but it really gets difficult, let's try to work this out comprehensively.

We begin with Knight, Knight is a self-aware knight which makes him different, he's also a lot stronger than the others. 

Knight goes and rescues the princess and finally discovers the magic of love.

Odin orders for Knights death (why? maybe b/c he can see the future and wants him to be a demon lord).

So Knight sneaks in with the help of the raven-computer girl (who worked for Odin, but is trying to betray him?).

Knight kills his lover  pal who shows him around.  (The kid is self-aware b/c he isn't a knight but some sort of peasant worker I think)

Knight meets a strange girl, the prophetess, who looks remarkably like the princess.  Perhaps Odin loved her once and locked her up to be safe only to stop loving her or some sort of parallel story-line.  It seems like Odin may have once been (or is) a demon lord.

He attempts to save the princess only to realize he is a clone of Odin, or was forged by the princesses power to look like Odin, because she was created by Odin to be a sacrifice and naturally wanted to recreate him.  Does this mean that the knight never had self-awareness until she gifted it to him?  

At any rate he basically sells his soul to become a demon lord with a horrible-ish fate.

At this point we get 2.1 which recaps that idea, and reveals that Odin planned to die, or at least lose the princess because it seems like what he really wanted was a demon lord (why?)

The story ends with Knight taking the princess and them living in the twilight of the earth, but then again it could be Odin.

At the end of volume 1, another knight visits the demon lord (who I think is Knight because he uses charge sword, but could be Odin), and explains the fact that its the curse of the princess that turned knights into demon-lords.  But he cannot kill her.

Then suddenly Loki?

 



#2
Nephos

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Seem's like one of those never-ending cycles.



#3
PhantasyPen

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All I managed to figure out after three or four go-throughs is that season one was all one big flashback exept for the beginning and the very end.



#4
josh25

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Other people seem to say it is a cycle as well, but I don't see it that way.  I think this is just a flashback to before Odin was killed.  He can't die unless he is faced with Ragnarok just like that knight is unable to kill the princess, because of their roles in the story.  So they both are relying on Nameless Knight to finish the story.



#5
Sydir

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It's similar to the old Norse stories. For instance, in Beowulf, there are stories with stories within stories. You literally have a guy starting to tell a story, and then a guy in that story tells a story about a guy telling a story. Currently we have no proper frame of reference to construct the story's point of origin. I think those two school girls in volume 1 may help us out a bit.

 

Also, Loki hasn't appeared. We have Puginn and Muginn. Muginn is not Odin, but the recorder.  


Edited by Sydir, 26 April 2014 - 09:01 AM.


#6
l0gin4me

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I think the author tried at the end to make this a cycle:

1. knight rescues sleeping princess from demon lord

2. knight falls in love with princess

3. princess is taken from knight

4. knight fights to regain princess, but in the end becomes the demon lord and the princess goes back to sleep

5. return to step 1

 

In this abstract way you have a complete cycle. In season 2, the author goes on to imply that it was Odin who intentionally created this cycle. The third chapter of season two helps reinforce this when Odin says "The source of evil in the world has been sealed. The demon lord is trapped in an endless cycle of self-restraint, so he will not seek the world's destruction."

 

That said, I'm not quite ready to accept this cycle. In both the cycle shown in season 1 and the cycle shown in season 2 Odin appears to be responsible step 3 (princess is taken from knight). As a result of this, Odin is killed by the new demon lord. In season 1's cycle, Odin is also responsible for sending the knight to rescue the princess in the first step. My problem with this cycle idea is that I don't see how Odin ends up back in position for the next cycle. In order for there to be a cycle everything has to return to the way it originally was. In this case, the cycle starts with Odin in power sending knights to "rescue" the sleeping princess from the demon lord. While the cycle does end with the princess sleeping in the demon lord's custody, Odin is now longer in power. Odin is dead. Unless the author comes up with a way to create the next cycle's Odin to send knights after the princess I can't buy into the cycle idea.

 

This is a cycle I could accept (depending on how well the author manages to implement step 8):

1. King sends knights to rescue catatonic Princess from Demon Lord

2. Knight kills Demon Lord, rescuing (and awakening) Princess

3. Knight falls in love with Princess

4. King takes Princess away from Knight

5. Knight tries and fails to rescue the Princess with his power

6. Knight becomes Demon Lord and uses his new-found power to kill the King

7. Princess is somehow rendered catatonic as Demon Lord takes her away

8. Time passes as a new King rises to power and begins sending knights to rescue the Princess

 

It should be noted that this cycle doesn't explain all of Odin's comments about past sins or why he needed the princess' power over fate, but it would be a step in the right direction


Edited by l0gin4me, 07 June 2014 - 12:21 PM.


#7
Kyon12

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This new chapter add new information for more possibilities as the ¨Knight¨ is similar to the original princess............xD



#8
Asukalasin

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Well if all goes well, it should give us information on what the hell just happened right? I mean if you try and understand it now, wouldn't be the same with trying to understand a research theory that has not been proven yet?



#9
Zhi Laohu

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My understanding is that vol. 1 was a general prophecy about the demon lord, and the events of vol. 1 should not be read with a direct cause/effect relationship to vol. 2. Therefore, with only 9 chapters of the 'real' story(vol. 2 onwards) out so far, we can only speculate so much.

 

I didn't re-read the series before writing this, so I might be missing some details, and some of my assumptions might be entirely off the mark.

 

Odin, the ruler/deity of the world, is trapped in a cycle of fate that he is desperately trying to break. He's been trapped for so long that his mind has grown pretty warped, and he's willing to go to any lengths to break the cycle.

 

Our main character, The Knight, holds is self aware as someone else mentioned. He is the only person with the potential to fill the role of the Demon Lord in the prophecy(vol. 1). Odin appears to be attempting to create a demon lord capable of breaking the cycle. He has failed in his attempts thus far. The Demon Lord is the only entity able to oppose Odin, and thus break the cycle.

 

The "Princess" is integral to creating the demon lord(Note that the "princess" seems to be a role in the prophecy rather than an actual person; the knight that he kidnaps and befriends in vol. 2 seems to play the role of the "princess").



#10
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This is a mind screw of rather epic proportions. I  think the story will only make sense once it ends and you start rereading it...



#11
Siegvar

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Hi guys, my first post here.

With the conclusion of season 2... I was tempted to unravel this massive mind fsck once more. Its late at night, and I may not be completely coherent, but season 2 seems to give us so much more info that I wanted to start the discussion. The core idea seems to be there, but some details are iffy. Anyway... this will be comprised of ramblings and random quotings/references from Wikipedia on norse mythology, and particularly, Ragnarok.

Ragnarök
In Norse mythologyRagnarök is a series of future events, including a great battle foretold to ultimately result in the death of a number of major figures (including the gods OdinThorTýrFreyrHeimdallr, and Loki), the occurrence of various natural disasters, and the subsequent submersion of the world in water. Afterward, the world will resurface anew and fertile, the surviving and returning gods will meet, and the world will be repopulated by two human survivors.

Yea, first wiki-quote-dump. Key points:
- Ragnarok roughly translates to "Fate of the Gods" and "Twilight of the Gods"
- The culminating battle of Ragnarok is fought between the Gods as led by Odin, and a bunch of monsters led by Loki.
- Tons of gods and monsters die, and nearly everything in the universe will be destroyed.
- 2 humans survive; 
Líf and Lífþrasir, and they will repopulate the world. It feels like a new cycle of Ask and Embla, the first two humans created by the gods to populate the world.

Anyway, back to AFotDL (I ain't typing the whole freaking title everytime.)

In season 2, chapter 10, we learn from Mimir what's Loki's ultimate fate is, and it gives us a hint to Odin's plans.

Mimir says to Ormr: "Destiny has already changed, because of Odin. You will all become extinct, and the world will forever continue to be ruled by the AESir. Loki's dream... contains the future. "

Ormr: "And what happens in the dream?"
 

Mimir: "All I can see with my abilities is just an image.
Odin's sword of destiny...
and Ragnarok impaled by the sword...
sealed within cheers of victory and joy."

So. It sounds like Odin wants to concentrate all elements of Ragnarok into one being; namely Loki. And then seal him with a sword. To what end? To prevent the passing of the events of Ragnarok? 

Where's this sword? our princess/knight "Nir"... which in hindsight now looks like an affectation of the full name "Gungnir"

So, how does she serve her purpose? I'm going to quote Garmr here from chapter 19:
"It makes sense. Lord Loki is different compared to when I was observing him before.
He would kill anything that trespassed in his territory, no matter if it was a Knight or a Dragon.
Like an unsheathed sword that only exists to slaughter.
He looked like a mad swordsman, just as the rumors said."

This looks like him fulfilling his role as the "Doom" that will claim the world of the AEsir.

"But there has been a massive change. He's a totally different person... it is like he had a different personality stuffed into him.
The change started to happen just after... His encounter with that knight. It seems that is when his fate began to change."

Thinking back to the way the Nameless Knight behaved in season 1, and Loki's behaviour in season 2, they both match what Mimir says in chapter 3:
"The source of Evil in this world has been sealed. The Demon Lord is trapped in an endless cycle of self restraint, so he will not seek the world's destruction."


So. Now we kinda know Odin's goal and plan (A.K.A. The TL;DR version):
Goal: Prevent the end of the world of the AEsir.
Step 1: Concentrate all the fates of evil into one being - The Demon Lord Ragnarok.
Step 2: Bewitch Ragnarok with the cutie pie Gungnir and seal him with the power of LOVE!!
Step 3: Prance about like a happy man, except, it seems that the cost of this is his own death. Can't dance if you're dead.

Now. This still leaves a few questions for me:
- What is Odin's sins that Ragnarok now bears?
- What about the Nameless Knight that Odin created was necessary to fulfil this plan? Why did it take so many incarnations?
- What is Puginn's objective and motivation? She seems to be working to foil Odin and Mimir's plans.
- I feel like the answers are there but I just haven't noticed them yet.

Also, back to season 1:
- If Ragnarok is now sealed by Gungnir, why did Odin continue to create Nameless Knights to unseal Ragnarok only to take its place again? Why that cycle?

    - The only guess I have is that its a natural occurrence and not Odin's design. Fate is auto-balancing and its creation of the Namless Knight is the means to this end. It tries to unravel the entwinment of Gungnir and Ragnarok so that a natural Ragnarok can occur. Each time this happens Odin kicks in the plan for corrupting the Nameless Knight once more and reseals it with Ragnarok.
- How the fsck is Odin alive? Why the hell is he panicking? He seems to have things under control.
- Actually... season 1 makes no bloody sense. Its so full of plot holes its ridiculous.

Anyway... after typing it all out there seem to be even more holes in this explanation. Oh well. What insights do you guys have?


"I may devour the five continents, and swallow the three seas, but a body with neither wings, nor hands, nor feet, is powerless against the sky."