30 replies to this topic

[Erda]

In Qur'an Solomon's called Sulaiman.

he is a prophet that rule the region superbly..

he governs jin (djinn), humans, animals.

so this is the origins, why the author make intelligent beings in the story in alma torran in animal shape.. because in Qur'an Sulaiman have a miracle as a prophet to talk and understand the feeling of animals. and also this is maybe the reason later they become djinn in the manga (because djinn obey sulaiman and respect him so much)

he has a wisdom that even the super arrogant djinns obey him.

and also about rukh, in Islam, when people dies the rukh (roh/ruh) will go back to God, Allah (pronounce: Awloh) and name Ilah means Allah or God in Arabic... in magi, it called Ill illah..

but somehow it deprived from the original, and it turns to be something ill, (i say in this manga, the author really loves to draw one eye; though i don't know what it means, in Islam it is called Dajjal, who only has one eye, because the other eye is blind, and when he come, he will bring the downfall of earth and humanity, so it much more alike right? and the major sign of doomsday)

 

I don't know about the story that can be an origin of magi existence in this manga..

*sorry for the bad english, and if this post is unsreasonable, or somehow annoying feel free to delete it..

Edited by Erda, 05 February 2015 - 08:42 AM.

[Theoderich]

Hey, I'm a person of Jewish descent and I know a good bit about Islam so I wanted to dispel some of the misinformation in this thread.

For one thing, yes, Magi is DEFINITELY inspired by the Torah and the Qoran. For example:

• The cosmology of the world - where a world is created by the one before it - comes from Kabbalah, which is Jewish mysticism - parallel to Sufism in Islam.
• The idea of Ruh as a soul is from Arabic, and the whole idea of the world being made of it is from Ruh Al-Quds in Islam, the spirit of God.
• Sheba and Solomon are of course from the Jewish bible.
• The djinn are from the Qoran and possibly pre-Islamic beliefs, and their names come from the lesser key of Solomon (which are demons, which as far as I know = djinn in islam).

However:

• The story in Magnostadt is definitely a commentary about modern-day Israel, NOT some past myths about the Romans... Ohtaka makes this pretty clear to anyone who knows much about the situation in Palestine. "Goy" is the word used because Japanese does not have plural.

•  

All of what Theoderich said above is basically blood libel. All of these stories were made up by the Roman Catholics, the Germans, or current antisemites to justify the killing of Jews. This isn't a light subject. That's not the God of Judaism. The Jewish god is the same God as Christianity and Islam. Elohim/YHWH/Jehova. Please cease spreading this nonsense, it literally gets people killed.

All those stories are stated in the Bible/Tanach, so they belong to the things we (Christianity) and the Jews believe in.

None of this stories are made up by the Germans as far as I know(you may enlighten me which ones that should be),

and none of these stories were written to justify antizionism (since antisemitism would include the whole semitic tribes like Persians,Assyrians,Babylonians,Arabs,Phoenicians etc. I prefer the term antizionistic if it is solely against Jews); in contrast, The Thora and the Old Testament contain lots of stories full of brutality and blood that are in fact a kind of propaganda text that was written by the Jewish priests during their exile in Babylon, according to archaeologists and historians.

It is also a fact that the Phoenicians partly worshipped the so-called "Moloch" and child sacrifices are proven, so concerning the inhomogenity of the people in the Near East region during the bronze age, it's plausible that even some "Jews" might've practiced these rites(as an analogy, there were even people worshipping Egyptian gods in antique "Germany"; spread of belief works through all ethnic groups).

 

About the Purim holiday, please read the Book of Esther, it contains all details about killing the enemies of the Jews and the establishment of the Purim holiday as its consequence (The Book of Esther is also a part of the Tanach).

About the Shawuot holiday, please read the Book Exodus or the Tanach, its stated there that the "heretic" Isrealits that wanted to follow Mose and the word of Jahwe should go into the tents of their kin at night and kill them. After that, they had to pray 50 days to recieve the 10 commandments anew. In memory of these happenings, the Shawuot holiday became part of the Jewish holidays.

These are both holidays where (at least partly) the mass murder of people is "celebrated".

 

This is not some part of antizionistic propaganda but sheer reality of what's written in the holy scriptures of our religions.

Besides the fact that there is a word for non-Jews, there are lots of stories within the Tanach/Old Testament that glorify the deeds of the Israelits

and are extremely hostile against gojim (like that story where David had to collect foreskins of his enemies as the bride price for Sauls daughter  in Samuel 1, and Saul and David are competing against each other who killed the most gojim[i.e. the Philistines]), mostly by the hand of Jahwe who decimates them through plague [e.g.Egypt] or catastrophies [Sodom&Gomorrha;Flood myth]. There is even some eugenic guidance somewhere that allows or forbids the creation of offspring between different ethnic groups...

[Funchi]

I wanted to quote Drakan post but the quote button doesnt work... no idea why!

 

Anyway i wanted to correct a mistake that he made as he said that "Christianity is younger that Muslinsm" (which i belive he wanted to say Islamism, cause muslin is a fiber made of cotton) which is wrong as Islamic beliefs started to spread within the human population much later that Christianity nearly 600 after Jesus death. To be precise since 610 AD (Christian calender), which is the year that Muhammad had the first revelation from the archangel Gabriel!

 

After pointing this out, i hope i dont offend anyone, and to stay on topic, i do belive this manga takes various different legends and stories from the three sacred books that are the Tanach, the Bible and the Quran, and uses various creatures and myth from the three books to create the manga plot. This is possible due to the three books having lots of things in common due to their nature, due to the fact that all three books, where written in the same geographical zone (now a day we consider it the Middle East) and most probably all three are based on the same oral legends which where handed down in that area!

 

Again i hope this post doesnt offend anyone!

Edited by Funchi, 28 May 2015 - 05:10 PM.

[vapor]

Reading about the Goi cracked me up. Definitely was inspired by "goyim."

[theanondonjuan]

I don't think this was mentioned, but Almeh (an arabic name) means "to know, be learned". In Aramaic (what Jesus would have spoken), Alma means "World". 

 

In Hebrew, Torah means "Instruction, Teaching". It's also used to refer to the first five books of the Old Testament. In Hindi Toran means an architectural sacred gateway or entry point. 

 

Why bring this up? Well, with all of the other language corruptions (in the artistic, linguistic sense) it becomes hard to pin down what exactly Alma Torran means, but I'm guessing (since Magi is by a Japanese author) it was a name intentionally utilized to have various subtleties and double meanings and probably means all the things I've mentioned above.

[naeon]

The main concept of Magi was adapted from many middle eastern legends and folklore, but mainly the 1001 nights.

 

Christianity (yes, despite what most people think), Islam, and Judaism originated from middle east, so there are some similar aspect within the stories of "1001 night" and the stories within the Bible, Al-Quran, and Tanakh.

Edited by naeon, 10 December 2015 - 06:45 AM.

[Eldaeb]

The religion stuff is interesting, don't forget he also drew from cultures across the world (and many times of war, rebellion, rebuilding, prosperity and decline).  He's represented communism, democracy, theorcracy, meritocacy and a few others.  I find his view point isn't perfect (though I doubt mine is as well) but he has some great ideas so it's refreshing and interesting to read.

 

But back on the thread topic I always felt that the Il Illa and David storyline was jarring compared to those stories - the last world flashback really didn't fit in with any of the old stories I knew from Jewish or Christian mythology.  David WAS solomon's father, but I've never seen him portrayed as that sort of ruler.  I mean there WAS that time where he arranged to have solomon's mother's husband killed (so he could marry her) but he acknowledged his crime and repented; apart from that he was widely hailed as the Jews best king.  Though he ruled in war where Solomon ruled in peace (when David wanted to build god's temple it was to be built by solomon instead because his hands weren't so bloodied; hmm, reminds me of the last episode about the difference between the Kouen and Koumei).

 

Having said that, linking back to my first point the David story does show a rulership structure (absolute authority/control) so I suspect the author made those choices not off any mythology but to showcase a different governing/rulership structure (and maybe demonstrate a "bad end" to contrast the path of Alibaba and Aladdin).

 

What do you guys think?  Is there a mythology that fits the old world story?  (closest I can imagine is Babylonian, or possibly aztec - the structures the staffs were being kept in made me think of those cultures) or did the author pull it from somewhere else.

[Kazaddum]

All those stories are stated in the Bible/Tanach, so they belong to the things we (Christianity) and the Jews believe in.

None of this stories are made up by the Germans as far as I know(you may enlighten me which ones that should be),

and none of these stories were written to justify antizionism (since antisemitism would include the whole semitic tribes like Persians,Assyrians,Babylonians,Arabs,Phoenicians etc. I prefer the term antizionistic if it is solely against Jews); in contrast, The Thora and the Old Testament contain lots of stories full of brutality and blood that are in fact a kind of propaganda text that was written by the Jewish priests during their exile in Babylon, according to archaeologists and historians.

It is also a fact that the Phoenicians partly worshipped the so-called "Moloch" and child sacrifices are proven, so concerning the inhomogenity of the people in the Near East region during the bronze age, it's plausible that even some "Jews" might've practiced these rites(as an analogy, there were even people worshipping Egyptian gods in antique "Germany"; spread of belief works through all ethnic groups).

 

About the Purim holiday, please read the Book of Esther, it contains all details about killing the enemies of the Jews and the establishment of the Purim holiday as its consequence (The Book of Esther is also a part of the Tanach).

About the Shawuot holiday, please read the Book Exodus or the Tanach, its stated there that the "heretic" Isrealits that wanted to follow Mose and the word of Jahwe should go into the tents of their kin at night and kill them. After that, they had to pray 50 days to recieve the 10 commandments anew. In memory of these happenings, the Shawuot holiday became part of the Jewish holidays.

These are both holidays where (at least partly) the mass murder of people is "celebrated".

 

This is not some part of antizionistic propaganda but sheer reality of what's written in the holy scriptures of our religions.

Besides the fact that there is a word for non-Jews, there are lots of stories within the Tanach/Old Testament that glorify the deeds of the Israelits

and are extremely hostile against gojim (like that story where David had to collect foreskins of his enemies as the bride price for Sauls daughter  in Samuel 1, and Saul and David are competing against each other who killed the most gojim[i.e. the Philistines]), mostly by the hand of Jahwe who decimates them through plague [e.g.Egypt] or catastrophies [Sodom&Gomorrha;Flood myth]. There is even some eugenic guidance somewhere that allows or forbids the creation of offspring between different ethnic groups...

Zionism refers to the political theory that the region Palestine is rightfully part of the jewish nation state Israel (the founder of the movement mixed Jew as religion and/or as race as he saw fit).

People who think this is a load of BS are antizionists. That has nothing to do with hating the Israelian people, it's just not liking a sort of political movement.

 

Antisemitsm per definition being against the cultural group Semites, which is damn big (as you rightfully mentioned). Sadly people are unable to get the definition and  that word gets only used when against people with jewish religion.

 

No idea if a anti-something word exists that would refer soley on people with jewish religion.

[GreatNinja]

Well in the recent chapters i notice that the final arc could be loosely base on the book of revelation(actually some arcs also actually).

So first of i don't know if i should add the pretty obvious one but ok who cares cause i'll just be quoting from the Bible and some of them will be self explanatory.( i am not the best in explaining anyway)

first of lets look at King David/Sinbad and anybody related to him.(this one is pretty long)

Spoiler

Well first of in Chapter 13 in the book of revelation the first part talks about some dragon and some beast more or less the dragon is ill ilah while the beast is king david cause of verse 2 "2 The beast I saw resembled a leopard, but had feet like those of a bear and a mouth like that of a lion. The dragon gave the beast his power and his throne and great authority" and also in verse 7 " 7 It was given power to wage war against God’s holy people and to conquer them. And it was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation"(by it it means the beast which is david) if you guys don't get why well read the flash back arc but in summery ill ilah gave david mgc and he pretty much conquer everything  and well mind control "every tribe,people,language, and nation" .

In the next half of chapter 13 talks about the second beast who is well sinbad(al thamen could also be added here too). so yeah in verse 11-12 "11 Then I saw a second beast, coming out of the earth. It had two horns like a lamb, but it spoke like a dragon. 12 It exercised all the authority of the first beast on its behalf, and made the earth and its inhabitants worship the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed" long story short in the bible Jesus is sometimes refereed to as a lamb and well Jesus is said to be the one true king (which is btw the thing all 4 of the magi in the series are looking for to rule the world) sadly for sinbad lambs don't have horns so he ain't the one true king in addition this lamb speaks like a dragon(ill ilha) and worships the first beast(king david),i think you guys already know why just read the previous chapters if you guys don't get it. and yeah the fatal wound cause of that flashback arc(ill ilha was destroyed and king david was killed).

also this from chapter 13 verses  15-17 "15 The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name" so yeah i'll repeat it "THE SECOND BEAST(sinbad) WAS GIVEN POWER TO BREATH TO THE IMAGE OF THE FIRST BEAST(king david)" verses 16-17 self explanatory sinbad removed all hierarchy and tells everybody to sell instead of doing war those that don't follow ends up like chi... i mean Kou empire. 

next is well the whole chapter 17 so just read it i'll just mention the good parts in verse 4 "4 The woman was dressed in purple and scarlet, and was glittering with gold, precious stones and pearls. She held a golden cup in her hand, filled with abominable things and the filth of her adulteries" well their is only one crazy b*tch in the series so yeah. in versus 9-11 "9 “This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. 10 They are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; but when he does come, he must remain for only a little while. 11 The beast who once was, and now is not, is an eighth king. He belongs to the seven and is going to his destruction" so yeah 7 seas alliance (the current one i am guessing) so yeah possible spoiler that 5 is fallen the other one is ??? and the last haven't come yet?  so yeah "the beast who once was and now is not" is possible another Sinbad relation. in that chapter they also mention 10 other kings probably the additional nations under Sinbad rule. or well this can also be seen as the king vessels being ruined or something. and well i don't know if chapter 18 is important but more stuff about capitalism i guess? (by capitalism i mean sinbad's rule though it's more of it's destruction after killing some woman)

i think that's it for them for maybe once i realize other stuff again

For Alibaba

Spoiler

well my realization here is more he's well Jesus(kind of) well at first i don't know cause Aladdin pretty much took the direct lineage of King David(which is one of the thing in the bible it stated that the Messiah is a family relative of King David) but Alibaba also has a kings blood and well he was kind of born in a sh*tty place kind of like Jesus. maybe their both separate representation of Jesus.

but here is the one that took the cake well HE DIED AND GOT RESURRECTED AFTER 3.... years well it's not days but you guys understand the parallel plus a movie/book/story where character dies and was reborn usually have a christianic theme to it.

in addition to that the design of Alibaba's dijinn equip could also be based of the book of revelation well i already saw this years ago but it would be weird to mention the ending of a book while the series that takes some stuff from it is just beginning. so yeah it's in chapter 1 verses 12-16 "12 I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lamp stands, 13 and among the lamp stands was someone like a son of man, dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. 14 The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. 15 His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. 16 In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance." soooo yeahh i would say that alibaba doesn't have white hair or a voice of a rushing water and well his sword coming out from his mouth but the rest is pretty close to the design.

one last thing the recent chapter it had 3 shadows plus Aladdin well could be the 4 horse men but more or less if their are 4 characters that would follow Alibaba pretty sure they are parallel to the 4 horse men and yeah the kids btw said "maybe god lives their" adds up to the part that both Aladdin is also a representation of Jesus technically both of them are the son of God (well for Aladdin his father became a God) and their was also that part in chapter 12 in the book of revelation it was part of the flashback arc where arba is pregnant.

 

Another last thing it's only loosely related to the book of revelation so don't expect the ending to be Alibaba straight up massacred majority of the characters. Their might be other influences that author put in the manga

[soablackwhite]

Well as a Muslim, I think OP is right when he says that there are few things in Magi inspired from religion.

For example, in Islamic mythology, Djinns are creatures that lived in Earth before humans, but who were all wiped out from the planet after the Apocalypse. This is very similar to the story of Alma Torran and all Solomon's servant who became Djinns. (Ilah also means Deity in Arabic, so when he destroyed Alma Torran, it might've been a reference to the apocalypse of the Djinn).

There's also the Magi. It's pretty obvious but Magi are mostly assimilated to prophets. Djinns had their prophets too in Islam ( just like the 3 Magi in Alma Torran ). Moreover, in every era, prophets were assigned to a certain region to guide the people ( which is also similar to the fact that there are constantly Magis in the world ).

As for Solomon, in Islam he is known as the only person who could rule over the Djinn, another similarity with the manga.

PS: one last thing, wanted to correct some misinformation about the "Djinn" in Islam: They are not demons, they are characterized with free choice, and can be good or evil just like Humans. Iblis (a.k.a Satan) was also one of the Djinn, and as he had a good behavior during his life on Earth.

Edited by soablackwhite, 23 December 2016 - 08:36 PM.

[icedpyro]

i mean it is a fantasy story based in a desert with Egyptian and Persian influences, just like the bible and quran