30 replies to this topic

[GreatNinja]

well to start it off the Bible, Quran and the jewish scriptures has the same origins and mentions one things like this and that that i will explain later (haven't read the Quran yet so feel free to hate,for those i offended like muslims christians and jewish people feel free to hate, but done some research before hand well i haven't technically read all three at full)

Well if the topic title is correct then this might be some major spoilers like i don't know

Spoiler

someone dying to save humanity

and stuff also sorry for my grammar in advance.

 

Spoiler

well to start it off in the series their are supposed 3 magi to search for the One true king and in the Bible or maybe the Quran (i do know that the Quran has some stuff about Jesus but i don't know if they mentioned his whole story so tell me) and well in Jesus birth 3 magi(well some says they where kings) and gave Jesus gold and stuff well but hey maybe it was just a coincident also their are like 5 magi in the series.

 

Next one is how ruka is depicted well okay okay ruka is that giant bird that guides people to the genies and stuff But the resemblance is so uncanny(to be more specific the Holy Spirit) well first of all if i am correct (my memory is a bit fuzzy) the way king Solomon(also a char on the bible and the Jewish scriptures dunno with the Quran tho) he used his magoi or the ruka to create a new world, well he did not made it for 7 days tho so that's something, now base on everything i read about the holy spirit(cause i made a report about it) is that it is everywhere and is inside of us and guides people to the lord and stuff also there are some people who are blessed by the holy spirit those are like Mary and Jesus and well they have some pros like being immortal(for jesus and Mary) and being able to control/command the Spirits them and do miraculous deeds with it(for Jesus and the apostles after the Pentecost) and well the ruka in the series is everywhere inside of all and composed of everything guides people to the great flow toward Ruka and stuff and well those who are being like by ruka,like the magi, have really long life span able to reincarnate and able to control/command the ruka to do awesome magic and stuff  like that but maybe i am wrong it's just so to happen that well they are kind of the same maybe i am just over thinking things

 

Next is well about Sinbad being evil and stuff he might actually one of the main antagonist in the series if i am correct will just refer to the anti-christ thing one the book of revelation and other stuff about the anti-christ but all i know is that anti-christ are considered as great leaders that has a lot of influence he also shows that the things he is telling is for the better of the world and stuff like that well their are, if i am correct 3 anti-christ and 2 had been shown, so basically there are 3 great leaders that is stating he is good but actually bad this one i am still unsure so i might be wrong maybe the certain group(what do you call them again al something) is the anti christ group considering the fact that they say that all of the kings of the world would fight a certain beast or something 

 

also the number of sinbads dijins are 7 ren kohen(am i correct) has 3 both of which are important

numbers to the bible well the only thing missing is maybe that's something right like both of them is like perfect (7 divine perfection & 3 complete perfection) 

 

WELL I MIGHT BE ALL WRONG NEXT IS THAT ID ON"T KNOW WHAT THE AUTHORS RELIGION IS SO YEAH also i found this in one of her question and answer thing for the hopes of finding what her religion is

Q: What did he do about food and bathing in the holy grounds?
A: One can’t go hungry or get dirty in the holy grounds so neither were necessary

(this was ask on the character of aladdin)

kinda reminds you the kingdom where nobody will grow hungry get hurt and stuff

Well again i might be wrong just tell me if you want to delete this

[Fanthor]

theres no doubt that it borrows from old mythologies. But its more likely they borrowed from stories(like 1001nights) rather than directly from the religions

[shahzehan]

yes the Quran mentions the story of Jesus but i don't think there is any mention of 3 magis or kings 

[Dragon88]

theres no doubt that it borrows from old mythologies. But its more likely they borrowed from stories(like 1001nights) rather than directly from the religions

I agree Magi borrowed stories from 1001 nights, nothing with religion.  To me it doesn't have any similarity with any of the 3 religion,  it is however similar to middle eastern stories like 1001 nights.  The 3 important characters names are from 1001 nights Alladin with his lamp, Alibaba and the 40 thieves and Sinbad's 7 seas adventure.

[whitelqd]

Please correct me if I wrong, since my knowledge of Abrahamic religions isn't that deep.

 

I do feel that Ohtaka Shinobu did quite a research on Abrahamic scriptures like the Bible, Quran, or the Torah to incorporate some of its myth alongside a number of lore from 1001 nights to make the base of Magi's story. As an example for that is the way King Solomon was told. The Quran does mention Solomon (or Suleyman) as a Prophet and a kind of Messiah that saves his people from a large-scale apocalyptic flood that supposedly could made humanity went extinct, and the Torah did too if I'm not mistaken. Didn't know about Jesus since Quran doesn't mentioned him detailly.

 

I think the author want to give his manga a nuance of  "A vibrant world where magic and mythical beings just happen to be" or something like it, and he saw the Abrahmic religion's lore, the 1001 night's stories, and some other myths from various part of the world as a nice material for him to incorporate into Magi.

[Shikots]

Please correct me if I wrong, since my knowledge of Abrahamic religions isn't that deep.

 

I do feel that Ohtaka Shinobu did quite a research on Abrahamic scriptures like the Bible, Quran, or the Torah to incorporate some of its myth alongside a number of lore from 1001 nights to make the base of Magi's story. As an example for that is the way King Solomon was told. The Quran does mention Solomon (or Suleyman) as a Prophet and a kind of Messiah that saves his people from a large-scale apocalyptic flood that supposedly could made humanity went extinct, and the Torah did too if I'm not mistaken. Didn't know about Jesus since Quran doesn't mentioned him detailly.

 

I think the author want to give his manga a nuance of  "A vibrant world where magic and mythical beings just happen to be" or something like it, and he saw the Abrahmic religion's lore, the 1001 night's stories, and some other myths from various part of the world as a nice material for him to incorporate into Magi.

 

actually in Quran Noah or Nooh is the prophet who saved his people from the flood , Suleyman is a prophet and a wise king who could command AlJinn (the Jinn) among other abilities given to him by God cause he asked him to bestow upon him unmatched reign and rule , and he was known as Suleyman the wise or Suleyman the Just , and yes the Quran did mention Jesus in detail . 

 

Magi incorporates elements from both 1001 nights and the story of king Suleyman or Solomon .

[Dragon88]

actually in Quran Noah or Nooh is the prophet who saved his people from the flood , Suleyman is a prophet and a wise king who could command AlJinn (the Jinn) among other abilities given to him by God cause he asked him to bestow upon him unmatched reign and rule , and he was known as Suleyman the wise or Suleyman the Just , and yes the Quran did mention Jesus in detail . 

 

Magi incorporates elements from both 1001 nights and the story of king Suleyman or Solomon .

Yup exactly so far only thing that comes from Quran seems to be the Solomon thing, aside from that it comes from 1001 nights.

[Portgas D. Itachi]

Yeah Magi draws inspiration from a lot of things middle eastern, too many to count. some obvious: Balbadd, Sinbad, Djinn, fallen djinn, Solomon, A world created by god for human dominance etc. some less visible, since most people wouldn't know it: Scheherazade's name, Allah and his three daughters (this is pre-islam) (here solomon and three magi), Rukh being angels who are forced to follow god's (or in magi, solomon's) will (In islam, djinns are made of fire, Angels made of light and humans are made of mud/wet dust)etc.

 

This is why i love this series, so fucking intelligent writing, with all these references that are a joy to discover.

[falconbane]

It depends on how far back the author dug in, because a lot of the words seems to imply a deeper etymology beside from borrowing the elements of middle eastern story and belief.  Dijinn (root Jinn) actually have a lot older meaning and had no affiliation with fire (that would be the specific jinn of Ifrit), they are simply beings that outside of human existence.  They can view as independent spirits since they have individual characteristic and personalities (just like the differences in people).  There are some that think Seraph (6 fiery winged higher servant of god) was actually borrowed from Ifrit.  

 

Spoiler

It wouldn't be hard to imagine there were people thought that, if there's a creator, who's the creator of the creator?  (This is also explain in aspects of Hinduism and indo-china creation myths)  And before religion was use as a tool of oppression, it was often used in discourse.  If the current arcs goes to explain that Solomon/someone close to him wanted to destroy Utopia for the sake of advancement and cycle (I think the translation was "moving beyond stagnation"), this would be a lift from the western asian/indo-china creation mythology.

Edited by falconbane, 24 February 2014 - 12:11 AM.

[Drakan]

well, I think we could spend ages looking through all of the mythological references in this manga, it's already been stated that it's incredibly detailed, and shinobu strikes me as an amazingly skilled author, let's not forget that even though there's this amount of references to myths there was still an incredible amount of detail in the politics of societies and even then the character development and plot was proper for an adventure manga.

 

That said I think shinobu started going with references to the 1001 nigths but then built further and researched on the mythological roots of it all. As the first poster mentions there might be a reference to the three magician kings (at least that's what they call them in my country), I think it's the three wise men in some other places (melchior, gaspar and balthazar were they called?), who gifted Jesus with gold, incense and myrrh. The three magi selecting someone to lead mankind could very well be based on this.

 

In this latest chapter I might have miscounted, but aren't those 12 people that were introduced accompanying solomon? I know the 12 apostles belong in another myth (all the way in the new testament, which is indeed far away from the history of solomon), but this could be the author  stablishing a common line between the two religious figures identified as messiahs chosen by their creator to lead humanity, and hinting that jesus is simply a later version of king salomon, in a new, younger world (much like christianity is younger than muslinism).

 

As I wrote that last paragraph I thought of yet anoter thing, and this last one might be pure speculation (at least, more speculative than everything before this), but from the info on this chapter we know that humans previously lived in "utopia" (I'll refer to ala toran like this for now), and weren't the only intelligent race there, they were not the only intelligent species and plenty of races were able to thin and speak here, the utopia's creator favored them and chose above the other races, and while the story hasn't progressed further than this we can assume that something happened to make the humans end up on earth (they do call the world that in here, right?).

 

Fast forward to the current point in the flashback, all species live in peace in utopia, but somehow this story doesn't fit, we still don't know how the humans ended here and how they're the only speaking species, given how this is going it's not a long shot to say that it was the the fault of one of these people to have made the mistake that would land the here, now, a world where everything was peaceful and a lot of differnt species lived in harmony, but then someone made a mistake and now we're here, I do believe alma toran in itself is one big refernce to the garden of eden, and with all this, and knowing aladdin has been called "solomon's proxy" and has been sent by him to this world in order to prevent humanity from repeating past mistakes, we could assume that the role of "jesus" in this story is in fact alladdin's.

[witty003]

yes not only the god or the goddess in the bible but also the demons in the lesser keys of solomons

[KanameFujiwara]

well to start it off the Bible, Quran and the jewish scriptures has the same origins and mentions one things like this and that that i will explain later (haven't read the Quran yet so feel free to hate,for those i offended like muslims christians and jewish people feel free to hate, but done some research before hand well i haven't technically read all three at full)

Well if the topic title is correct then this might be some major spoilers like i don't know

Spoiler

someone dying to save humanity

and stuff also sorry for my grammar in advance.

 

Spoiler

well to start it off in the series their are supposed 3 magi to search for the One true king and in the Bible or maybe the Quran (i do know that the Quran has some stuff about Jesus but i don't know if they mentioned his whole story so tell me) and well in Jesus birth 3 magi(well some says they where kings) and gave Jesus gold and stuff well but hey maybe it was just a coincident also their are like 5 magi in the series.

 

Next one is how ruka is depicted well okay okay ruka is that giant bird that guides people to the genies and stuff But the resemblance is so uncanny(to be more specific the Holy Spirit) well first of all if i am correct (my memory is a bit fuzzy) the way king Solomon(also a char on the bible and the Jewish scriptures dunno with the Quran tho) he used his magoi or the ruka to create a new world, well he did not made it for 7 days tho so that's something, now base on everything i read about the holy spirit(cause i made a report about it) is that it is everywhere and is inside of us and guides people to the lord and stuff also there are some people who are blessed by the holy spirit those are like Mary and Jesus and well they have some pros like being immortal(for jesus and Mary) and being able to control/command the Spirits them and do miraculous deeds with it(for Jesus and the apostles after the Pentecost) and well the ruka in the series is everywhere inside of all and composed of everything guides people to the great flow toward Ruka and stuff and well those who are being like by ruka,like the magi, have really long life span able to reincarnate and able to control/command the ruka to do awesome magic and stuff  like that but maybe i am wrong it's just so to happen that well they are kind of the same maybe i am just over thinking things

 

Next is well about Sinbad being evil and stuff he might actually one of the main antagonist in the series if i am correct will just refer to the anti-christ thing one the book of revelation and other stuff about the anti-christ but all i know is that anti-christ are considered as great leaders that has a lot of influence he also shows that the things he is telling is for the better of the world and stuff like that well their are, if i am correct 3 anti-christ and 2 had been shown, so basically there are 3 great leaders that is stating he is good but actually bad this one i am still unsure so i might be wrong maybe the certain group(what do you call them again al something) is the anti christ group considering the fact that they say that all of the kings of the world would fight a certain beast or something 

 

also the number of sinbads dijins are 7 ren kohen(am i correct) has 3 both of which are important

numbers to the bible well the only thing missing is maybe that's something right like both of them is like perfect (7 divine perfection & 3 complete perfection) 

 

WELL I MIGHT BE ALL WRONG NEXT IS THAT ID ON"T KNOW WHAT THE AUTHORS RELIGION IS SO YEAH also i found this in one of her question and answer thing for the hopes of finding what her religion is

Q: What did he do about food and bathing in the holy grounds?
A: One can’t go hungry or get dirty in the holy grounds so neither were necessary

(this was ask on the character of aladdin)

kinda reminds you the kingdom where nobody will grow hungry get hurt and stuff

Well again i might be wrong just tell me if you want to delete this

You're not wrong on the idea that the Abrahmic traditions were used in making this story. Just want to remind people- fiction is fiction. This story is not real.  

[Rizky Ramdhany]

as a kid that raised by muslim tradition and stories, reading this manga does strikes a lot from the stories i hear when i growing up,

first the stories of prophet Solomon (Sulaiman/Sulayman) who could talk to all beings like animal and could see the Djinn (Jinn) and commands them (not controls them), he is called as Solomon the Just because he treat every beings with respect.

and the second are the stories of Rukh (Ruh) that even Prophet Muhammad couldn't understand fully and only God that know everything about rukh.

i feel that Ohtaka sensei did alot of research not only from abrahamic religions but other believes too. but the centre of the stories does revolves around arabic or mid east culture, and at some chapter there is  magic skill name that resembles a lot like surah (verses) in alquran, and that is quite funny  

 

and sorry for my bad english    

[GreatNinja]

Well i guess you guys are right whooo lol let's just see where it leads too

i will also no longer add anything christianic or whatever here even if i saw one in the recent chapter lol

[jrusse18]

I agree Magi borrowed stories from 1001 nights, nothing with religion.  To me it doesn't have any similarity with any of the 3 religion,  it is however similar to middle eastern stories like 1001 nights.  The 3 important characters names are from 1001 nights Alladin with his lamp, Alibaba and the 40 thieves and Sinbad's 7 seas adventure.

Partially, correct but their is alittle that is based in Jewish mythology especially the djinns they're the 72 demons that King Solomon was granted control of also their abilities are come from those demon's natures. Although some of the demons were early enemies of the Jews and replace some of the other demons I'd say Amon is an example since he takes an appearance closer to the Egyptian God Amun but Amon is also one of the 72 demons bound to Solomon. That's way too much talking for me, I'm stopping now.

[Ousshaki]

Hello, i'm musilman and now i will make the difference between the beliefs in Quran and those of Jewish:

In Quran it said that when the end come close a creature will show up on earth, it has one eye and .... we call it "Massih Dajale" but after some turn of events Christ will descend from the sky and kill it. in Jewish they believe that the one eye creature is their god or in other world it's the god christ "we the musilman think of christ as messenger just like Muhammed " so their trying to make it show up with something called negative energy ... for more detail about them search "al massonia" on google and thanks   

[Theoderich]

Well, the story about Solomon and the demons is true. Solomon is the great King in Jewish history under whoms reign the Jews had their one and only time of properity. And not only that. The Wizards of Magnostadt are like the Jewish high priests. They worship Solomon and want to use the Rukh to recreate their reign over the "Goi" (Goi [גוי]is in fact the term for a non-Jew (the correct term would be Gojim [גוים] since Goi is singular)).

 

Even their hatred for the gojim is a reference to Judaism since the non-Jews are believed by the Jews to be of lower worth as a human being[Untermenschen; they were depicted as pigs who are treated by both muslims and Jews as impure beings] and even treated as being their enemies[e.g. a jewish doctor may treat but not heal a gojim]; It is also reflected in their religious holidays (i.e. the Purim holiday, reminding the Jews of their mass murder of 75.000 Persian people[they were their enemies so they asked the King to be granted the privilege to freely murder everyone they considered their enemy; this request was granted and led to their killing spree, resulting in this holiday] or the Schawuot holiday, reminding the Jews of their mass murder of their own kind back then after they danced around the golden calf instead of waiting for Mose to return from Sinai with the 10 commandments[they had to murder their own families and pray for 50 days afterwards to be forgiven for their sacrilege by Jahwe]).

 

And there is more to it. Magnostadt has this magic device to convert life energy into magic energy, being a direct equivalent to the temple of Jerusalem where life energy (i.e. the life of animals, most prominant that of pure babies like lambs) was converted into prayer energy to satisfy their god[there is the equivalent to the phoenizian god Moloch who was also worshipped in the near east during that time; This god demanded human sacrifices, especially sacrificing children was popular. It is stated in the Bible that worshipping the Moloch should not be done by the Jews, but also stated that Jews were under suspicion by the Romans later on to sacrifice humans[especially children] to the Moloch]. Maybe I can come across of even more references, time will see

Edited by Theoderich, 08 November 2014 - 07:17 AM.

[Sindibaad]

Hey, I'm a person of Jewish descent and I know a good bit about Islam so I wanted to dispel some of the misinformation in this thread.

For one thing, yes, Magi is DEFINITELY inspired by the Torah and the Qoran. For example:

• The cosmology of the world - where a world is created by the one before it - comes from Kabbalah, which is Jewish mysticism - parallel to Sufism in Islam.
• The idea of Ruh as a soul is from Arabic, and the whole idea of the world being made of it is from Ruh Al-Quds in Islam, the spirit of God.
• Sheba and Solomon are of course from the Jewish bible.
• The djinn are from the Qoran and possibly pre-Islamic beliefs, and their names come from the lesser key of Solomon (which are demons, which as far as I know = djinn in islam).

However:

• The story in Magnostadt is definitely a commentary about modern-day Israel, NOT some past myths about the Romans... Ohtaka makes this pretty clear to anyone who knows much about the situation in Palestine. "Goy" is the word used because Japanese does not have plural.

• Well, the story about Solomon and the demons is true. Solomon is the great King in Jewish history under whoms reign the Jews had their one and only time of properity. And not only that. The Wizards of Magnostadt are like the Jewish high priests. They worship Solomon and want to use the Rukh to recreate their reign over the "Goi" (Goi [גוי]is in fact the term for a non-Jew (the correct term would be Gojim [גוים] since Goi is singular)).

   

All of what Theoderich said above is basically blood libel. All of these stories were made up by the Roman Catholics, the Germans, or current antisemites to justify the killing of Jews. This isn't a light subject. That's not the God of Judaism. The Jewish god is the same God as Christianity and Islam. Elohim/YHWH/Jehova. Please cease spreading this nonsense, it literally gets people killed.

[Reyya]

i love this topic.... 

yep... the story likely was taken from that big 3 religion. i am muslim, i dont know how bible and jews told that story.

Solomon (Sulaiman) , Djinn (Jin) is mentioned in Quran. Rukh too, but the idea of the rukh in magi is different what muslims believe.

Edited by Reyya, 01 December 2014 - 10:32 AM.

[Roxis]

finally someone brough out this,i thought people would keep pretended to not noticed this part