3 replies to this topic

[granolabar]

I really liked the Outaro character. He reminded me a lot of Jaime Lannister from A song of Ice and Fire. Both had unconventional loves, and were assholes, but went through some kind of journey to find what they really want out of life.

 

Yeah He's an asshole, but he grew up with power, money, and looks. He uses people around him, and is used in return. Like that girl at the beginning who throws him out naked. She was most likely the same as him: Vain, cold, selfish and kind of an asshole. I read about this kid who grew up as a billionaire's son, who commented that he couldn't forge real human relationships because of his status. Everyone wanted something, so he ended up cold, and superficial.

 

Yeah, but Outarou's still a creeper and an asshole.

 

That's true, but I don't think he knows how to show affection to a girl in any way other than sexually. All his life, he's been with women, never able to forge any kind of emotional connection, only physically. So he doesn't even know how to start to show love.

 

Eww, he said he was in love with a 10 year old. 

 

Yeah, I don't think he wanted to sleep with a 10 year old. The greeks had many different words for love: Eros= passion/sexual love, Philia= mental love, like friendship and Agape: love due to respect of the other person's character.

His love was definitely a bit of Eros, but at the end when he said he still loved her, it was mostly Agape. 

So what did he love about her? I think it's her sincerity and joie de vivre. Ran said that she liked him and she meant it.

 

 

Anyway, in the end, it's still a bit squicky if you can't empathize with him. It's the same reason a lot people are turned off by Nabokov's Lolita. Well, have you ever loved someone who believed that you were a better person than you actually were? And did that make you want to be a better person? I know how it feels to want to be a better person due to love/affection.

 

He's a seflish asshole, creeps on girls, but he's trying to be better, and I can relate

 

Lastly: I think the saddest part isn't that he died, but how he died and the effect it will have on Ran. A lot of people I see just say "thank god, the pedo's dead", but that's from your perspective. When I put myself in Ran's shoes, it's totally different.

Anyway, if he didn't die, would it have worked out? Oh boy, gonna get flamed for this... Give them ten years and lets see. Stranger things have happened. 

 

PS: another manga that looks at some unconventional love is  Otoyomegatari, with a 12 year old groom and a 20 year old bride. It's fascinating to see the affection they hold for each other even in such a circumstance, I  recommend it

Edited by granolabar, 02 January 2014 - 06:58 PM.

[ElectricApple]

The only problem with this interpretation (and one that I totally agree with by the way) is that ultimately the 'asshole' figure needs a redeeming moment. Lolita had a redeeming moment. The Great Gatsby had a redeeming moment. The Wind in the Willows had a redeeming moment.

 

There was a moment in his last day alive that he could've swayed me, where the author could've made me agree that ultimately, he was a good person. It was when Hibi reaches out to him, and is telling him to tell Ran he's going to die. Apologizing to him would've been the ultimate act of humility and deference, and it would've honestly made me feel that Ran had changed Outarou completely. Instead, he screams at a 10 year old kid. Why doesn't he tell Ran that he's going to die? I think he makes it pretty clear in what he yells. It's not that he doesn't want her to be sad. She's going to be sad when she wakes up, that would just prolong it. It's because ultimately, this isn't about her. This is about him, and what he wants. He doesn't want her to forget him, he doesn't want her to love anybody else, it's all him, him, him. I don't care that he apologized to his harem. I don't care that he apologized to his parents and to his butler. I care about the fact that he didn't apologize to the one person who he would've actually had any trouble apologizing to. 

 

Now look, I get it, you're probably saying he's a selfish character, that love makes you selfish, that there's nothing wrong with that, that it's okay for him to be an asshole, that he's complicated and multi-dimensional, etc. etc. At the end of the day, there's a reason why so many people hate him. It's not because the average person is some sort of philistine who can't enjoy high-brow themes and characters. It's because Outarou is a fucking PRICK. He kicks around children. He's a misogynist. He knew Ran was 10 and still had no problem forcing a kiss on her. But that's not why I hate him. I hate him because he was given a chance at redemption. I hate him because he had done so many wrong things in his life, so many terrible, terrible things, and STILL he was painted out to be some sort of saint at the end by the author. I hate that nobody called him out on his bullshit. I hate that Ran will never realize how terrible a guy he was, that she almost killed her entire damn family and Hibi to save him.

 

I hate all those things but damn it if I can't not hate this manga, it's too creative and beautiful and unique by half. 

[rabidduck18]

I don't think Humbert Humbert ever had a redeeming moment in Lolita, I mean he still kidnaps a young girl, probably rapes her, and ruins her life and her mother's life. I mean. he's still a sympathetic character and all, but he's still pretty much a monster and he realises that. Also gatsby wasn't a monster or anything, and Tom and Daisy never redeem themselves, so yeah. I think that Outarou's deal is that he's still pretty immature, like his mother went terribly wrong in raising him so now he's just a thirty-something year-old manchild. His entire character arc is essentialy Ran interacting with him on his own level, which is probably why he wanted to be with her so badly. Ran is the only person who doesn't treat Outaro like an adult with adult liberties. So his outburst at Hibi was essentially a prolonged temper tantrum at his death, which is something any kid would do when they're told that they're going to die. It's still unacceptable behavior for an adult, but Outaro's never actually grown up. That's why he's such a terrible person, and it is the driving force behind his character.

[Asahi Asahi]

I don't like him, since I hate all playboys, but I wont have mind ran and outarou ending together, I'm sure he would have waited until she was old enough if not he would have move on but as a changed man, since all the bad stuff got suck out of him by the bug. also people seem to have forgotten that hibi was also a very bad boy he bullied and beat up ran, but he changed and became adorable. the people in this story change for the better.