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It's like saying President is the strongest combatant of a country...


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#1
wuhugm

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Okay I can understand that nobles Gaju are strongest because perks of being a Gaju and soul weapon

 

but why is Union Elder also the strongest in their organization?

 

It's like saying President is the strongest combatant of a country...

 

Presidents don't engage in combat duh, their subordinates do



#2
svines85

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I suppose I believe in the Union's case it's an inverse relationship as compared to the Noble leadership.............in other words they're not "strong" because they're an Elder in the Union, they're an Elder in the Union because they were strong enough to become one in the first place

 

But of course it'd be a self-fulfilling sort of thing too, once they had the power of leadership in the Union they'd have the inside-track so to speak on all the new advances on getting even stronger as well. 


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#3
wuhugm

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I suppose I believe in the Union's case it's an inverse relationship as compared to the Noble leadership.............in other words they're not "strong" because they're an Elder in the Union, they're an Elder in the Union because they were strong enough to become one in the first place

 

But of course it'd be a self-fulfilling sort of thing too, once they had the power of leadership in the Union they'd have the inside-track so to speak on all the new advances on getting even stronger as well. 

 

Yes, gaining immortality when you become elder is understandable, but by no means there is a need to make elders the strongest beings

because this union is like Illuminati right, it controls the world's politics and economy, and I suppose the elders are the one making final decisions, on top of that adding responsibility as combatant is ridiculous

 

it seems there's ongoing trend in this comic that The Leader is The Strongest

like DA-5 and Cerberus, but they applied it to everything else as well



#4
Ozen

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Because, in the world of manga and manhwa, as you get stronger the power gap between you and those less strong becomes exponentially larger (DBZ, The Breaker, ToG, Noblesse, etc., etc., etc.). In the real world, personal strength doesn't mean shit when your opponents have guns.

 

So a small number of overwhelmingly powerful people will supplant those who have political power. And thus we have the Elders. It doesn't make sense because it isn't realistic.



#5
SNMS6

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From what i can infer , the author referring to ancient hierarchy where the strong rule . Union and Lukedonia's Nobles are established far ago when human was still primitive creatures . And from time to time the definition of strong shift into achievement + physical prowess + intellectual prowess + influence like Dr.Crombell did . Simply , the one with only outstanding achievement will not gain access to becoming an elder , and so . 


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#6
wuhugm

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About Cromblell, it seems he only got promoted because his research achievements

 

even Union doesn't know he has "powers" since the 10th, 11th, and 12th elder were surprised by Frankenstein's power which Yuri said similar to Crombell's power.

 

and most of those elders (beside defectors from Lukedonia and werewolves) got their power from Human Enhancement + Noble Contract

means originally they were simply "powerful" people of our times, like Bill Gates or Trump

 

if they (random rich people) could be made strongest because of that, there's no reason to NOT replicate that results to other subjects. Means Union could have a legion of beings with elder level of power but somehow refrain to do so?

 

just because strong rule trope? they lower their overall fighting prowess so no one stronger than elders? but those elders are lousy combatants...


Edited by wuhugm, 19 December 2013 - 06:53 AM.


#7
SNMS6

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well about Crombell , i think that his achievements was causing a chain reaction because his achievements are considered bull's eye . Let's assume that a value that have to be reached is z . Crombell Achievement is y , his physical prowess is x , his intellectual prowess is w , his influence is v . His achievement alone bring the intellectual prowess and influence which is unknown value come to certain number that surpasses z , even if his x is 0 , the 3 alone is enough to reach the z , but his x is not 0 as we read in the season 1 chapter ? uh oh what chapter that he showed off in front of franky ? . i believe that this is what the author thinks when plotting the story .

 

and let's assume that the same things happen in our respective country's leader and or the richest man in the world . power doesn't always translate to combat prowess . it is like compare loner Zen Master with outstanding combat prowess but never to reveal his z value to the other world with Barrack Obama .

 

also it is in human nature to bow to the one with z-value transcending his/her own z-value . the system is called fear .


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#8
wuhugm

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The primary problem in this is actually :

 

Are Union Elders the final decision makers in Union activities? or they aren't the true leaders and still bow to someone else

 

Coz it seems to me that they just let Elders fight battles and go die like a dog

 

They just let these people with high Z value to die just like that? Just send hundreds enhanced humans or something will ya

 

Union is like consortium right? what about the assets which respective elders had? when they die no assets lost?

 

contrary to what Union supposed to be, this comic is all about battle and battle



#9
SNMS6

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The primary problem in this is actually :

 

Are Union Elders the final decision makers in Union activities? or they aren't the true leaders and still bow to someone else

 

Coz it seems to me that they just let Elders fight battles and go die like a dog

 

They just let these people with high Z value to die just like that? Just send hundreds enhanced humans or something will ya

 

Union is like consortium right? what about the assets which respective elders had? when they die no assets lost?

 

contrary to what Union supposed to be, this comic is all about battle and battle

 

i don't know about union's organization structure , but what can i catch from all the story flows is that the union is ancient organization , which consist of humans , defector nobles , and werewolves . the final decision maker is the elder's meeting . any elders with their specific role will have the right as decision maker as long as in their boundaries except for something that the elders discussed in their meeting . Also the elder status are rather vague since some of them are bowing to another elder , i think that have some connection with the elder's number . I am not sure why the author make the elders just go nuts and zerking in spot instead of tactical retreat , oh maybe to cut the story shorter ? 


Edited by SNMS6, 19 December 2013 - 12:40 PM.

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#10
strixflash

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Only strong or intelligent people get the position of Elders. 9th and 13th got Elders position for their brains and not for power... On other hand 8th got his position for strength. The traitor nobles would not have joined Union for the job of underlings...

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#11
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It's because this is basically a fighting series, with the plot just an excuse for the fights.  Characters who can't fight are not important in a series like this, so all characters are given combat abilities as appropriate for their plot-importance, regardless of if it makes sense or not.



#12
wuhugm

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It's because this is basically a fighting series, with the plot just an excuse for the fights.  Characters who can't fight are not important in a series like this, so all characters are given combat abilities as appropriate for their plot-importance, regardless of if it makes sense or not.

 

what a waste of potential......



#13
clamzoopa

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About Cromblell, it seems he only got promoted because his research achievements

 

even Union doesn't know he has "powers" since the 10th, 11th, and 12th elder were surprised by Frankenstein's power which Yuri said similar to Crombell's power.

 

and most of those elders (beside defectors from Lukedonia and werewolves) got their power from Human Enhancement + Noble Contract

means originally they were simply "powerful" people of our times, like Bill Gates or Trump

 

if they (random rich people) could be made strongest because of that, there's no reason to NOT replicate that results to other subjects. Means Union could have a legion of beings with elder level of power but somehow refrain to do so?

 

just because strong rule trope? they lower their overall fighting prowess so no one stronger than elders? but those elders are lousy combatants...

But they can't be made strongest.  They're trying, but as you can see, it's still not as powerful as the Noblesse.  Maybe I'm just not understanding your gripe with the series.  The Union is a bunch of traitors and low-morality individuals.  Do you think they would submit to a democracy?  No, it's a very fragile alliance where everyone is doing what's in their best interest without making a majority of the other elders their enemy.  I mean, you can say it's a waste of potential, but what do you want?  Would you be happy if they had a meaningless figure-head as their leader?  From your original post you seem to think power only comes from physical ability.  I think in all heirarchies, the most powerful will be the leader, regardless of what defines that power, i.e. a combination of intelligence, strength, charisma, diligence, etc.



#14
wuhugm

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But they can't be made strongest.  They're trying, but as you can see, it's still not as powerful as the Noblesse.  Maybe I'm just not understanding your gripe with the series.  The Union is a bunch of traitors and low-morality individuals.  Do you think they would submit to a democracy?  No, it's a very fragile alliance where everyone is doing what's in their best interest without making a majority of the other elders their enemy.  I mean, you can say it's a waste of potential, but what do you want?  Would you be happy if they had a meaningless figure-head as their leader?  From your original post you seem to think power only comes from physical ability.  I think in all heirarchies, the most powerful will be the leader, regardless of what defines that power, i.e. a combination of intelligence, strength, charisma, diligence, etc.

 

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#15
Verne Jules

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I think the elders were initially made up of strong people like the Noble traitors and the werewolf so they could have initially ranked the elders from strongest to weakest. As the 12th appears to be one of those who are more of charismatic people or with lots of money similar to what we know of the modern leaders. But since strength is necessary to get a hold of their underlings, they had to empower the elders in ways such as forming a contract. The other elder had himself specifically modified to fight nobles (by Roctis' daughter and 9th elder). We could also see the 9th elder, while strong as a noble, wasn't really adept at fighting. Crombell became elder because of his research achievements. The elders are elders because they're the most influential leaders in the union. Of course in such an organization where human weapons are not scary and no money nor army could protect you from the strongest guys, it's natural that the strongest become the most influential.



#16
strixflash

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^ 9th Elder is a human and not a noble. There were few panels in which his eyes were red but that was just an art mistake.

9th and 13th got their position for their brains. 12th got his position for being an obedient experiment to show that Union acknowledges hard work and loyalty.

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