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A candid opinion regarding Noblesse

noblesse sucks imho victim of plot entropy

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14 replies to this topic

#1
Ozen

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I have to say something.

 

I still read Noblesse because it's exciting to the twelve-year-old that lives in my head. I find myself entertained by the fights and the inevitable truth that the good guys are going to win, and they're going to do so overwhelmingly.

 

Storywise, however, Noblesse is about as bland as anything can be. The same pattern has been repeating since the first arc: good guys try to live their lives, bad guys come in and do something stupidly, completely unnecessarily evil, some minor skirmishes ensue, Frankenstein comes in and has a bit of fun, then Rai arrives and pwns everyone. Crombell is somewhere in the background, scheming. Yuri is still not dead for some reason. Science and experiment are used mindlessly to justify the aforementioned evil. SAME DAMN THING, over and over.

 

The characters have all fallen so deeply into their established behavior patterns that no one, except possibly Frankie, seems to have any space for expansion. The humans have become completely irrelevant as a result of Noblesse's terminal case of Dragonball Z disease - everyone is so overpowered that I can't even tell who's strong and who isn't. The main character - let's pretend for a moment that it's Rai and not Frankie - has the emotional depth of a potato. No, Noblesse, you can't sell to me that he's a lonely, deeply troubled soul and expect me to be emotionally invested in that when the story is so far removed from its namesake. Really, it's like the authors know that he's nothing more than a story-driving device and treat him as exactly that.

 

inb4 "if you don't like it, don't read it". I find some measure of primitive entertainment in Noblesse. We all like big-damn-heroes moments, and Noblesse is essentially a vending machine for those. Turn the crank, wait a few chapters, out comes another one. Unfortunately, that's all it is.

 

Disagreement welcome. If someone can reveal to me some hidden sign of quality in the plotline, I shall certainly be grateful.


Edited by Father Deus, 11 December 2013 - 04:45 AM.


#2
svines85

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"Stoic"......I'd describe Rei as "stoic", i.e. "outwardly unemotional or seemingly indifferent" ..........though I've got to give you credit, "the emotional depth of a potato" is pretty darned snappy. I don't necessarily agree.........but still, pretty darned snappy.   :)

 

Nor do I necessarily disagree with your thoughts about the underlying themes becoming somewhat repetitious. We do essentially have a "good guys -vs- bad guys" theme going on, and as the story has lasted so long......well, yeah, your "same pattern repeating" comment is probably fair. 

 

expect (hope basically) that the story will shift and the dynamics will change........the author(s) have been foreshadowing/screaming of Rei's poor condition pretty much the whole story, one would expect at some point it will finally come into play. Rei dies/disappears/gets his ass kicked......take your pick. Will that happen? Dunno, but I like you apparently would probably like to see some things get shaken up one way or the other. As you said, things can get pretty bland when you know what's going to happen.  


Edited by svines85, 11 December 2013 - 05:27 AM.

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#3
Ozen

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expect (hope basically) that the story will shift and the dynamics will change........the author(s) have been foreshadowing/screaming of Rei's poor condition pretty much the whole story, one would expect at some point it will finally come into play. Rei dies/disappears/gets his ass kicked......take your pick. Will that happen? Dunno, but I like you apparently would probably like to see some things get shaken up one way or the other. As you said, things can get pretty bland when you know what's going to happen.  

 

Here's to that. I do think there's a possibility of something unexpected - details from Rai's past, which has remained nebulous at best, or the Union's leadership - but the way things are going, it's probably going to be that we reach the Union's first elder by the same ol' formula, then Rai dies for shock value, and Crombell is somehow the final boss for Frankie to face. But one can hope, I suppose. :D



#4
svines85

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Here's to that. I do think there's a possibility of something unexpected - details from Rai's past, which has remained nebulous at best, or the Union's leadership - but the way things are going, it's probably going to be that we reach the Union's first elder by the same ol' formula, then Rai dies for shock value, and Crombell is somehow the final boss for Frankie to face. But one can hope, I suppose. :D

Yes, it's pretty much in the hands of the author as to what they choose to do with things. Overall it's been a very enjoyable story....but even the best of things can get old at some point if you keep going back to the well time after time with no variety. :) 


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#5
Giantess

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expect (hope basically) that the story will shift and the dynamics will change........the author(s) have been foreshadowing/screaming of Rei's poor condition pretty much the whole story, one would expect at some point it will finally come into play. Rei dies/disappears/gets his ass kicked......take your pick. Will that happen? Dunno, but I like you apparently would probably like to see some things get shaken up one way or the other. As you said, things can get pretty bland when you know what's going to happen.  

Rei will die, then achieve Super Noblesse Level 2 and come back to life to save the day.  This will happen again for him to hit Super Noblesse Level 3

 

Calling it already.

 

But seriously, it's true.  The series had some promise early on, but the most interesting parts were the early day-to-day life bits and the perspective on the story from the more normal characters.  All of the really important mysteries have been answered now -- it feels like the author never really intended for it to last this long or become so popular, so they're just going in circles and stretching out the few plot threads they have ridiculously far.  The art is still beautiful, but beyond that...



#6
Krozam

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Everything points to that Rai will use the last of his powers to defeat the 1st elder and that'll pretty much be the end of the story. Who'd be the antagonist after the Union, since even the traitor Clan Leaders are in the Union? I find it sad that the normal kids have been shoved to the background, utterly breaking the nice balance of light-hearted school life and the epic stuff, but I think it's too late to turn back now. In another thread I just read, people were speculating about Shinwoo making a contract with Seira or inheriting Rai's powers. Utterly improbable, after the authors already wasted the chance to bring him and his nerd friend to the surpernatural side in the KSA arc.

 

That said, I still find this an excellent manhwa. The battles are very entertaining, there are plenty of interesting characters (even if Rai isn't one of them) and despite all the repetition, there IS a moving plot with an end in sight.



#7
omnipwnage

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If I were to speculate, I'd guess that Rai will probably die before 'the final battle,' as there's no way he'd be able to kill the remaining elders virtually on his own. I'd love to see, as well, how someone becomes a Noblesse, as it's shrouded in a lot of unanswered questions. Rai's death would be a perfect opportunity to showcase this. Also, there's the whole story on how Rai wasn't able to 'deep sleep' 6 elders, and whom Muzaka is.



#8
Krozam

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I'm confused, how does Rai dying early make it any easier to take on the remaining Elders? Also, it's not like he's alone, there's Franky, currently 3 Clan Leaders (in future, others may join them) and even Rael might be able to, cooperating with someone, take on one elder. Oh, and my guess on Muzaka is that he's one of the 6 traitors, the father of Kaye, the strongest of the current Clan Leaders. Why he's not awake and among the elders is anybody's guess. Maybe they did some modifications on him, making him even stronger.



#9
svines85

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If I were to speculate, I'd guess that Rai will probably die before 'the final battle,' as there's no way he'd be able to kill the remaining elders virtually on his own. I'd love to see, as well, how someone becomes a Noblesse, as it's shrouded in a lot of unanswered questions. Rai's death would be a perfect opportunity to showcase this. 

This is somewhere in the rough range of possible events I think would benefit the overall story. I think it would create the potential for the Union to perhaps take the upper hand once all-out war begins along with bringing all the other Noble characters (the Lord included) into the main story more fully.  

 

And yeah, the potential of a new Nobleese emerging, the high-school gang maybe being involved.......blah blah blah. It would create a lot of upheaval compared to where we've finally arrived now in the story...........which is once Rei gets involved everything's basically over. Yeah, a lot of the suspense disappears when you're faced with that repeatedly in a story.


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#10
Tullus

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I have to say something.

 

I still read Noblesse because it's exciting to the twelve-year-old that lives in my head. I find myself entertained by the fights and the inevitable truth that the good guys are going to win, and they're going to do so overwhelmingly.

 

...

 

inb4 "if you don't like it, don't read it". I find some measure of primitive entertainment in Noblesse. We all like big-damn-heroes moments, and Noblesse is essentially a vending machine for those. Turn the crank, wait a few chapters, out comes another one. Unfortunately, that's all it is.

 

Disagreement welcome. If someone can reveal to me some hidden sign of quality in the plotline, I shall certainly be grateful.

 

 

Not every story has to be an amazing, complex epic, or a deep journey into a character's psyche, or an intelligent, multi-layered social commentary. I like those too, but I also like fun stories like this. You say "unfortunately, that's all it is," but I don't see why the "unfortunately" needs to be there. It's fun. Like you wrote in your post, you enjoy it. I enjoy it for the same reasons.

 

There are plenty of awesomely complex stories out there, with all sorts of things Noblesse and works like it doesn't/don't have. But sometimes it's nice to have something simple, something familiar that you know you'll enjoy. Trying new dishes is great, but so is eating comfort food.


Edited by Tullus, 18 December 2013 - 10:00 PM.


#11
darklight2087

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i think this is one of the best manhwa i read.. but it seems that lukedonia is not helping at all.. if only the strong clan leaders of lukedonia will help rai would not used his powers on the weak elders of union.. 

 

and the history of rai is still in mystery.. who is his parents , what is the reason for him to be protecting the humans , does he ever fell in love? ..  it seems that the current lord of lukedonia is a little attracted to him 

 

 

 

as for the latest chapter it seems that rai could only handle a couple of strong opponents not to mention at there is still 5 union elders and 1-2-3 are strong ones the oldest clan leader traitor the geezer together with the current lord of wolves.. and also there still mikasa..  

 

 


 think this is one of the best manhwa i read.. but it seems that lukedonia is not helping at all.. if only the strong clan leaders of lukedonia will help rai would not used his powers on the weak elders of union.. 

 

and the history of rai is still in mystery.. who is his parents , what is the reason for him to be protecting the humans , does he ever fell in love? ..  it seems that the current lord of lukedonia is a little attracted to him 

 

 

 

as for the latest chapter it seems that rai could only handle a couple of strong opponents not to mention at there is still 5 union elders and 1-2-3 are strong ones the oldest clan leader traitor the geezer together with the current lord of wolves.. and also there still mukaza

 

:batoto_016:



#12
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idk but Noblesse is my favorite series, solely because of Rai and Frankenstein. I don't care if it's repetitive; I want to see Rai and Frankenstein kick butt. All the better for me if I get to see it every arc.  ^_^

 

but it looks like maybe the Korean fans are having similar thoughts... the ratings for the past few weeks have dropped. :(  


lol roll lol


#13
svines85

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idk but Noblesse is my favorite series, solely because of Rai and Frankenstein. I don't care if it's repetitive; I want to see Rai and Frankenstein kick butt. All the better for me if I get to see it every arc.  ^_^

 

but it looks like maybe the Korean fans are having similar thoughts... the ratings for the past few weeks have dropped. :(  

Well, I certainly don't think you're alone, I mean, there's a reason you see titles like Naruto, One Piece, and Bleach (among others) just go on, and on, and on...........and be wildly successful at that. Heck, Major ran for 78 volumes and literally transpired over 16 freaking years. (OP's actually not far behind that I'm just now noticing).  >_<

 

But yeah, a personal preference, nothing wrong with that...........I suppose I'm just more of the "beginning, middle and The End" kind though. I actually want closure, I want to see the author work his tale to completion and my characters go off into the sunset (for better or worse). 

 

Are the rating down on it? I hadn't noticed............you know, it is a two-edged sword, you can easily stretch something out too far and lose your audience. I've literally read hundreds of chapters of particular titles and ended up dropping them flatly. It can happen, for that matter I've got a couple right now that're on the fringe (no, not this one though).   :D


Edited by svines85, 03 February 2014 - 09:14 PM.

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#14
Dragon88

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Well to me I read Noblesse mainly because of the characters, action and humor.  The plot was never great.  And its fine with me.  Not every story has to be deep with intricate plots.  Noblesse is a simple effective manga with cool characters, funny moments and awesome action.  I don't expect it to be anything more then this and its fine by me.  Its good to read simple stories too.  Not every story can be complicated.

Though I have to admit with Muzaka and the whole werewolf thing the story is getting deeper but still at the end of the day its mostly about cool characters, action and funny moments.



#15
strixflash

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You see most of the mangas, manhwas, webtoons follow a pattern throughout the story to deliver plot. In One Piece we have that in the form of adventures. Good guys go to an island, found people in distress, help them from villains, the world knows about it... this pattern repeats like ten times. Every story has a different way... And just like that Noblesse uses a certain pattern to deliver story. Villains come to Korea, meet good guys, etc... sure it might seem repetitive as Noblesse is more of a character driven series rather than plot. Some stories focus on plot very much but their characters are weak and generic, and somilarly Noblesse focus on characters more than plot. Noblesse's strength was characters, their interactions & fight...

BTW, Noblesse's rating on Naver is same except on filler chapters where it gets 9.8 or 9.7 as they are short chapters :)

Noblesse Forever!

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