Edited by Mizura, 05 October 2013 - 02:58 PM.
Overview of Kubera military capabilities
#1
Posted 05 October 2013 - 02:47 PM
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#2
Posted 05 October 2013 - 03:32 PM
That was a longer post than i imagined. <drops jaw> You make historians proud.
Edited by ëėŽėë , 05 October 2013 - 04:25 PM.
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#3
Posted 05 October 2013 - 04:57 PM
lol, yeah. Now that there's a clear overview, aww man, Gandharva really screwed up in terms of preserving his leadership authority.
- Convincing Agni to leave was perhaps THE best accomplishment by the Sura faction by a good margin, whereas...
- Sagara's mistake with Brilith, which resulted in Agni coming back, was Easily THE biggest screw-up by the Sura faction.
Yet Gandharva failed to capitalize upon his accomplishments, while Sagara managed to shrug off her failings as though it were nothing. Consider:
What Gandharva should have said after Agni left:
Everyone, great news! Agni has agreed to leave us alone, as long as we don't harm his Priestess. As you all know, Agni was by far the biggest obstacle we were facing until now. Now that he's gone, only humans are left, and his Priestess will probably die on her own soon enough. Now our only opponents are humans.
How Gandharva Did react after Agni left:
Everyone, we mustn't attack Atera even though it's the easiest target, because if we do Agni will hate me, and then Shakuntala will hate me too.
Similarly, he made his own situation progressively worse by failing to keep an eye on his army. When God Kubera summoned Sagara and her army through the portal, he could have asserted his presence first, with something like "Look now, we've been here longer than you, and we know the area better than you. We've already done most of the work, and there are only a few cities left. I've even managed to convince Agni to stay away. So this is what you're going to do: [insert plans]"
Instead he went off to sulk, leaving his faction to twiddle their thumbs, making them highly vulnerable to influence by the likes of Sagara.
If he were calmer, he'd have been able to make the most of the situation. For example, he could insist again that Atera should not be attacked (for now), then formulate plans for both armies to attack Rindhallow (much easier victory). Or perhaps his promise could be used tactically: they could form a false siege around Atera, therefore prompting other cities to send in reinforcement, then suddenly using the other army to launch a surprise attack on one of the remaining cities. In exchange for Sagara agreeing to the plan, Gandharva would agree to lend her Maruna to break the barrier, for example, or even offer his own help. Instead of leveraging his own pieces though, he had Sagara steal them from under his nose.
When Sagara screwed up, Gandharva still had the opportunity to take the upper hand again. "This is what you get for ignoring my warnings. Now Agni is back, and it's all your fault. From now on, I'll be the one making the decisions." Again, though, Gandharva went soft and let Sagara take the initiative.
We'll have to see how things end in Kalibloom. As I said in the raw thread, there is a small chance for Sagara's army to be annihilated here: Claude is in constant communication with Airi, so if Agni and Kasak have already decided on their course of action, they could rush to Kalibloom at the first warning from Airi. If Kaz tags along too, then it's game over. I was also wondering if Claude didn't want to "borrow" God Kubera's items, in fact, to hand them to Airi once she came over as well. If Sagara succeeds, then Gandharva may suffer an irreversible loss in his own credibility, it's already bad enough that he delayed the whole operation. If she fails though, Gandharva may still have an opportunity to gain the upper hand again (though, he'll need to get a grip on his own emotional mess first).
I wonder if Gandharva is disadvantaged precisely because he's been an all-powerful King for so long. He probably never had to engage in negotiations and manipulations. Sagara, however, being the weaker Nastika that she is, may have been constantly struggling to gain influence and power (not that it seemed to work with the other Nastika in her clan, though), so manipulating others probably comes more "naturally" to her.
Edited by Mizura, 05 October 2013 - 05:03 PM.
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#4
Posted 06 October 2013 - 12:20 AM
I wonder if Gandharva is disadvantaged precisely because he's been an all-powerful King for so long. He probably never had to engage in negotiations and manipulations. Sagara, however, being the weaker Nastika that she is, may have been constantly struggling to gain influence and power (not that it seemed to work with the other Nastika in her clan, though), so manipulating others probably comes more "naturally" to her.
I agree. Gandharva was (and is) a leader who leads by example, with his personal military strength, he decides who and when to fight, and his people will follow. His power is unmatched by his enemies, and he himself sways the outcome of the battle, and as such, sneaky tactics and military maneuvers are not his forte.
Meanwhile, Sagara is more of a political/motivational leader - she will instruct her troops with clear definite roles in case of so-and-so situations (ex: closing their eyes immediately when they met Agni); assign them to roles that they are most suited to perform, and even giving rare praise to motivate their performance.
....This also has a weird parallel with how new dynasties/kingdoms were formed after an upheaval: the first king of a kingdom would be the strong military leader who is a warrior himself, but a "good" king a few generations down would be the smart, political leader who can keep all the noble families in line without resorting to brute force.
.. While typing this out, I also realized that if the Ananta rakshasha kids are actually confirmed to be Sagara's biological children...
Gandal and Maruna have a more typical parent-child relationship when they are biologically unrelated, whereas Sagara has a commander-soldier relationship with her own children. =_=~~
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#5
Posted 06 October 2013 - 03:00 AM
Ah, good point. Gandharva has been a one-man army for too long. He doesn't know how to effectively make use of the rest of his forces.
Ironically, I think Sagara's relationship with her children may be more in the Sura norm than the relationship between Gandharva and Shakuntala, or even Gandharva and Maruna. We know from the side novel that:
- Nastika fathers don't really like their sons, and often kill them by accident when they get mad at them (enough to undo the huge gender imbalance among Rakshasa)
- Nastika mothers do have some maternal instincts, but may as well not have any compared to human mothers
- Near the beginning of the Universe, all Sura races had a lot of children in order to "increase their forces."
- In the new version of the side novel, it also seemed that it didn't matter if Taksaka killed a bunch of Ananta sura as long as none of them were Nastika (read: Rakshasa and below are fine)
We now from the webtoon:
- near the beginning of the Universe, Gandharva had many children too (blog says they've all died since)
- Sagara's blog entry notes that she's had too many children to remember
- When she first showed up, she also told Gandharva that it was his duty to "re-marry" (thus, to increase forces further?)
- Gandharva refers to Shess as "one of Airavata's closest associates", not "her son" (implied: being a close associate > being blood-related)
What I'm saying is, initially at least, Nastika seemed to treat Rakshasa as disposable military resources. Rakshasa are so much weaker than them and die off so quickly, and after a few hundred of them I guess it's hard to get too attached. The notion of experiencing the "joys of parenthood" may only have surfaced much later, and is not universally shared among Sura. For Sagara, the fact that Riagara is a highly competent subordinate may be a lot more valuable than just the mere fact they're blood-related. The other way around, though, children may act more as the direct subordinates of their parents.
I also get the impression that the bond between Rakshasa siblings is stronger than between parent and child. In the side novel, Vasuki noted that Riagara went to visit her siblings (by the way, he never referred to her as his daughter either, nor the other way round). Maruna also seems to miss his siblings more than his parents.
Come to think of it, human mothers have to spend 9 whole months in pregnancy then have to go through the pain of childbirth. Having a kid is a "rather big deal." For Nastika, popping a bunch of kids is probably significantly less of a big deal. o,o
I sometimes wonder if the rest of the Upani are of Sagara's descent as well, lol.
Edited by Mizura, 06 October 2013 - 03:01 AM.
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