13 replies to this topic

[truepurple]

I've been seeing this term alot in comics comments, it doesn't matter if the character is 3000 years old or not sexualized (but perhaps associated somehow with a older male) they use this word.

 

So how come I haven't seen a single person used it in reference to Ran? Could it be that only appearance matters for some of you?

[inzaratha]

Cause she isn't.   

When she's a little girl she's a little girl.   When she age shifts with the sneakers, she looks like twenty, which is how she looks when she's with Outarou, so she is not a loli and he does not see her in child shape so he is not a pedo.  

[truepurple]

She's a sexualized little girl, isn't that the definition?

[inzaratha]

She isn't sexualized.   When she is a little girl, she acts like a little girl,  she also sees Outarou more like a friend.    She isn't a sex object as a little girl, she dresses like a kid not like a loli.   When she is bigger she looks sexualized but she is in the body of a young woman then.   It's different,  I defintely would Not call her a loli.  

 

Lolita is also a certain fashion look too, and she definitely does not have it.    I like some lolita fashions and some are just overdone. 

 

Shimotsuma Monogatari  is an example of lolita style. 

 

I don't like her with Outarou either, but I wouldn't call her a lolita just cause she is a kid,  there is a lot more to the definition and she really acts like a kid.    I suppose some people might but I wouldn't. 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lolita

 

I don't think she looks sexualized when she is in her child form but that's coming from a female perspective, but to me she doesn't.   

 

This is an example of lolita fashion.   

This is from Deka Wanko and although she dresses like that she is not a loli either as she is an adult policewoman and it's a josei comedy. 

Edited by inzaratha, 24 August 2013 - 08:31 AM.

[truepurple]

It seems the term varies wildly among person to person, perhaps too much to be of any use. Aside from whether  the term "loli" applies or not, there is the issue of morality by appearance. That certain aesthetics decide right and wrong, especially with sexuality, with some people, rather then more logical factors. (by logical, I do not mean simple and unemotional) I actually wrote up a thing on this, but I am not sure where to put it, or if to put it somewhere.

 

This is apparent to me with this comic and the issue of Outarou and Ran, where the difference of appearance of both of them I think matters more to some readers then the emotional and true ethical issues at play here. 

Edited by truepurple, 26 August 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[inzaratha]

Yes I think it is one of those things where it's definition is pretty ambigious,   but I know it when I see it.    

A nine year old dressed in make up  and in a mature looking dress to make her look like a teen for a pageant would be a loli.   

 

Well personally I think Outarou is an jerk and I would never want to see him wind up with Ran in a million years  and yes  part of that's cause I know she is a kid   -  he doesn't know that fact though so I can't say he's a pedophile just a perverted guy  however  part of me reacts like he is   -  Even if she were say 19 she still acts like innocent - she isn't dressing that way to be sexy - she is dressing that way cause that is what she was wearing and then when she changes it fills out and she seems ignorant of her sex appeal.

-  but it doesn't matter even if she was 20 I wouldn't want her with him.  :\    cause he is a prick.    

Edited by inzaratha, 27 August 2013 - 01:03 AM.

[truepurple]

Let's say Outarou looked like a 90 year old man, and a ugly one at that, can all you who don't mind Outarou so much. you Outarou defenders out there, honestly say it wouldn't make a difference to you?

[inzaratha]

I'm obviously not an Outarou defender, as I just called him a jerk and a prick,    I know a few people who like his character - but most people reading it Hate him. 

[truepurple]

That is why I wasn't talking to you  inzarath I am talking to the fair number of people who have posted comments in his favor for this comic.

[truepurple]

inzaratha, your definition's nearly uselessly specific, yet still somewhat vague.

 

Let's say a adult women with a growth disorder that makes them look a little like a child at first glance, dressed in the style you mentioned, but with some adult features. "loli" according to you?

Edited by truepurple, 28 August 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[inzaratha]

I don't know - It's not like I'm into that genre.     I like the fashion style so I guess the term could be used on anyone dressed in that style. 

 

But the regular defintion - yes it's ambigious -  you could look on Ran that way if you see it that way  -  I don't  but I sort of see what you mean.    Some people think of the girl in my sig from  Until Death Do Us Part that way too and I don't.  

 

But as a straight female I'm not seeing those girls as being sexually provocative.      So I can't really say any more about it.    It's probably something a male Japanese otaku would know more about. 

[inzaratha]

For most readers I know  ( at least female ones ) the term applies more to fashion and would be this type of look based on edwardian parisian fashion with western clothes that have lots of frills and lace and long styled hair.    It's more of a cosplay term mostly and that is what most readers would think of if you said a girl was a lolita they would picture her looking like this. 

 

http://cdn.buzznet.com/assets/users16/charlottejhons/default/lolita-dresses--large-msg-132986318876.jpg

 

http://www.mlo.me/upen/hvx/201205/20120523/Cotton-Black-Lace-Gothic-Lolita-Dress-Outfit-7777-0.jpg

[Purple Library Guy]

To me the fashion thing is almost completely separate from the "loli" term as applied to people.

The "loli" term as applied to people seems, as near as I can figure, to relate even more to body type than to age as such.  Although I agree sexualization often/usually has something to do with it. 

Basically, a loli is a girl or woman with a physically small and slender, girlish figure who is in some way sexualized, whether through dress or taking a romantic and/or sexual role, active or passive.  The appearance must invoke the typical appearance of an underage, even prepubescent, girl, but the person does not have to actually be that young and very often isn't; they are frequently teens, sometimes adults and occasionally very old (vampires and whatnot).  That's how the term "loli" is used among manga fans as best I can define it. 

The physical appearance is definitely a, even the, primary issue; what that says about manga/anime fans I couldn't say--it is a visual medium, but frankly I do feel that among many dedicated manga/anime fans particularly of shounen material there is a tendency to emphasize, even become connoisseurs of, certain fetishistic elements; it gets a bit artificial for my taste.

 

So I agree with Inzaratha--Ran isn't a loli.  When she's physically young she isn't sexualized.  When she's got a romantic/sexual context she doesn't have a loli physique at all.  That's why nobody's referred to her as one.

Edited by Purple Library Guy, 18 October 2013 - 06:50 AM.

[Liar]

The only term I could apply to Ran in terms of her appearance in her pre-transformed state is 'fashionable'. For a little girl, she has great tastes in clothing.