9 replies to this topic

[Goral]

So why would anyone think that Miria is a skillful strategist?

1) Her plan at Pieta

Even monkey could come up with the idea if it had youki suppressant pills. The idea alone was nothing impressive, getting hands on suppressant pills was. Unless Rubel did all the work for Miria and told her what to do in order to survive. After all it was in his best interest if he wanted the org to have problems with her. That in fact seems to be the most likely conclusion since she somehow knew that by taking half a pill unconscious Claymore becomes cloaked and it's not something Miria could discover by herself.

Miria's plan working was an ass-pull by Yagi since for it to work Claymores had to be injured in a way they would lose consciousness and not die in the process. Also, Clare was the only one of the bunch that could survive Pieta (although in her case it could mean becoming an awakened being) by her power alone. How could all 6 of them (Yuma was already out) be hit just like that when they were surrounded from all sides O_O ? That's like all of them would hit a jackpot in a lottery with chances 1:14 000 000. ABs, being on all sides would see the hit in every possible angle and no one would notice it? 6 times?

And Miria didn't think about such an obvious alternative and much more efficient strategy as escaping using the pills. Instead of handing over the pills, explaining the situation and making everyone scatter she preferred to go with her plan which resulted in only 7 Claymores standing. Miria, while having huge amounts of pills (they had them even after 7 years and fed them to Audrey and the rest) decided to fight instead of making everyone scatter while being cloaked. They had time to escape but didn't. I could understand it if she didn't know Organization's true colors but she had no reason to obey them in that situation. I highly doubt that there would be more casualties if she did that. In fact she might have been able to crush the organization without lifting a finger. Male ABs would have no reason to pursue Pieta warriors, they were heading to the Org. But Miria did exactly what MiB wanted anyway. Hence she's a retard.

2) Her plan to defeat Hysteria

That's basic "divide and conquer" strategy. Haven't you heard about expression "two dogs fight for a bone and a third runs away with it" or "when two quarrel, a third wins"? And it only worked because Yagi made a total idiot out of Hysteria and Miria super lucky. I mean, how come Miria wasn't hit by any of the numerous attacks? She basically went into a shredder without being hit by the blades even though her opponent was. That's absurd. In other words it was not because Miira's plan was genius. Dumbing someone down is easy, making a genius out of him is not.

3) Her plan to use Raki to bring back Clare

Again, nothing even remotely brilliant in this. On the contrary. Fab 7 (+Galatea) were near the blob earlier and haven't triggered any reaction and Raki was the only other living person who knew Clare so taking him along wouldn't hurt. But to be honest, earlier they didn't even try to do much about her AFAWK since they were afraid that would free Priscilla and Destroyer along the way. Which brings us to: Miria is a retard. Her plan was to let Priscilla and Destroyer escape to not let Cassandra power up Priscilla. So instead of fighting Cassandra she thought it would be better to fight not only her but Priscilla and Destroyer too O_O. And didn't think that after freeing her, Priscilla could go to Cassandra to power-up anyway, lol. What Miria did was many times more risky and had no logic in it. And in the first place, where did she get the ridiculous idea of Cassandra powering Priscilla up from? That doesn't make any sense and has no explanation besides that Yagi has decided to let her know that.

And thinking that Raki, who Clare has known for a few months at most would have bigger influence than friends she knew for over 7 years was ridiculous. Not to mention that present Raki doesn't even remotely resemble the Raki she knew (not his voice, nor his appearance).

If you ask me, Miria had only fail moments. Her every "genius" plan was stupid and/or extremely risky and worked only because Yagi made it so. Logic had nothing to do with it. Other example is how she has convinced everyone to follow her. In chapter 123 on the other hand, Miria looked like a retard when she asked Deneve again and again "Huh?" after our favourite Yagi's mouthpiece explained things to her. And here's another example. There is many more but I'll stop at that for now.

[Nero Faust]

Still at it huh Goral. Guess you can split your time between Batoto and Mangahelpers when you don't have much else going on. That's fine. Oddly enough I agree with you where this topic is concerned. Miria always struck me as overrated and I believe I shared this on MH. I'm not going to say she's a complete idiot but she's not nearly as cunning a strategist as Yagi or the fandumb tries to make her out to be for very much the same reasons you laid out.

 

1) Not only was this plan foolish but it also served as the first indication that Miria is just as evil and sadistic as the organization she claims to be against. She could have easily shared her suspicions with the other warriors and they all could have rebelled. Or at the very least they could have chosen to disobey orders. Sure some warriors would have stayed loyal but some would certainly have mutinied and left the organization or worked with Miria to overthrow it. Instead she only shared her grandiose plan with her "friends" and let the other Claymores get massacre. What a bitch.

 

2) I don't have a problem with Miria not getting hit by the myriad of attacks for the simple fact that they were too large scale. It's like casting a big net and missing the small fish. The battle between Cassandra and Roxanne had rather low odds of getting the other Claymore killed. What was bullshit was the fact that the AB's simply ignored Miria and her allies. While I can understand Cassandra and Roxanne's fascination with each other, there is no way in hell Hysteria a former number one would have let herself fall victim to such bush league tactics.

 

Oh please continue. You're doing a fantastic job deconstructing Miria. The issue with manga in general is that when a character becomes popular the marks ignore all of that characters faults for no reason other than they fact the character in question is well-liked. Miria and Teresa are two such characters in this title.

[MangaFan]

Both of them- she is clever and lucky.

[GreenDrag]

I've got at a problem with it concerning her plan at Pieta. They not only wanted to survive, but escape from the organization at the same time. The only way to do that without getting hunted by the Org was to have them believe they all died.

 

About the rest, IIRC, it was solidly established that most of her plans required bucketloads of luck to work and even then had a decent chance to fail.

 

Also, if you want to call her anything, you should call her a tactician. So far, only a few characters have been shown to move the pieces on the field with long-term goals in mind. Anyways, that's just me rambling and nitpicking... I'd say, that she's a lucky tactician...

[Lowlightt]

Well in the case of Pieta They couldn't run away. The organization had eyes on them (gala) so that they would know if they fought or not. If they ran they would be hunted down by the organization and wouldn't be able to survive. Remember Number 1,2 and 3 claymores could have easily killed the entire claymore order at this point in time. So escaping was not an option. They had to fake there death. Which is why they had to fight in Pieta. Second they had to fight In Pieta because if they lost countless people would be killed (they actually care about people not being killed crazy) So even if it was suicide they had to hold the lines for the people who were escaping. Third to hold Pieta she needed all the warriors to fight at there best, hence why she couldn't risk splintering her force if tried a rebellion. All this makes reasonable logical sense. As it was explained just taking the pills and disappearing would result in the organization chasing them. Just taking the pills and running would not let them out pace the incoming Yoma (who if you remember were quite ansy to kill everyone) Taking half the pill and running would not hinder there running abilities but the organization would know they ran away and give chase. The only way to win was to take half a pill and fight the Yoma and make Gala lose there presence in the mixture of awakened beings. Only then could they fake there death. Like she said sucky odds at best.

 

Quite logical as you can see.

As for part 2 thats as easy as looking at a fan. Lets say a gnat flys through the fan, you give chase with your hand. The gnat may get hit by the fan blades but its small size makes it unlikely. If may get tossed around a bit but should arrive on the other side relatively unharmed. You on the other hand stick your hand into the blade giving chase...........     That was the Histaria plan in a nutshell. Again makes much logical sense.

[Goral]

Well in the case of Pieta They couldn't run away. The organization had eyes on them (gala) so that they would know if they fought or not.

At that point Galatea had barely avoided purging because of disobeying orders which Rubel made perfectly clear. There was no danger coming from her. And in the first place, MiB wouldn't need an eye to know that Claymores deserted if as many as 28 ABs would come marching to their stronghold. If they would be so weak they couldn't even kill some of ABs they wouldn't send them to Pieta but told Alicia to chop their heads off since they were useless anyway.

 

So #3 going after them was out of the question. And even if, Clare knew exactly how strong Galatea was and knew her tricks wouldn't work on Claymores who knew how it worked and Galatea knew that she knew. In addition, Clare combined with Jean would be a serious threat to Galatea, add to that Miria + Flora + Deneve and Helen and she would stand no chance at all. But most of all, Clare would know that if Galatea would appear in Pieta she would either join them or leave the Organization. She disobeyed for a reason (and Clare saw that she's a good fellow) plus Rubel made it perfectly clear that they won't have any trouble coming from her since she was far too busy staying alive by doing various dangerous tasks.

 

As for numbers 1 and 2, they would not send them and leave the base undefended against Riful and Isley (and Luciella, at the time they wouldn't know she had been killed by Rafaela).

 

So yes, escaping was a much better option, you just fail to realize it. What's more you keep bringing Galatea into this even though at this time she was on the sidelines and Lune/Renee was being trained to replace her. So at the time they didn't have a reliable eye.

 

The only viable argument you're making are the people. But honestly this doesn't convince me either. After all no Claymore goes and kills youma unless he's ordered to and because of that many people are killed. I just don't see Miria and the rest suddenly going out of their way and protecting people that might not be harmed anyway (since Org's HQ was AB's destination and it's not like people emit youki, so they wouldn't be that easily found).

 

 

As for part 2 thats as easy as looking at a fan. Lets say a gnat flys through the fan, you give chase with your hand. The gnat may get hit by the fan blades but its small size makes it unlikely. If may get tossed around a bit but should arrive on the other side relatively unharmed. You on the other hand stick your hand into the blade giving chase...........     That was the Histaria plan in a nutshell. Again makes much logical sense.

Except Hysteria was not much bigger than Miria. Her size can be seen here best: http://vatoto.com/read/_/82967/claymore_v22_ch123_by_mib/18

Sure she's significantly bigger but for some reason every shot that Roxanne made plus Cassandra found their way to her (plus they hit her in a way that was fatal and somehow 2 such humongous spikes hit her plus Cassandra who had Miria closer to her) and didn't even scratch Miria. What's more, Miria somehow could parry Roxanne's attack, but an AO could not? Are you kidding me? I'm not saying she should have dodged these attacks (since the speed was too big and she probably wouldn't be able to do thing like these) but at least minimize the damage and not let herself be skewered in the worst possible way. It really was badly written by Yagi.

Edited by Goral, 08 May 2013 - 03:55 PM.

[Lowlightt]

At that point Galatea had barely avoided purging because of disobeying orders which Rubel made perfectly clear. There was no danger coming from her. And in the first place, MiB wouldn't need an eye to know that Claymores deserted if as many as 28 ABs would come marching to their stronghold. If they would be so weak they couldn't even kill some of ABs they wouldn't send them to Pieta but told Alicia to chop their heads off since they were useless anyway.

 

So #3 going after them was out of the question. And even if, Clare knew exactly how strong Galatea was and knew her tricks wouldn't work on Claymores who knew how it worked and Galatea knew that she knew. In addition, Clare combined with Jean would be a serious threat to Galatea, add to that Miria + Flora + Deneve and Helen and she would stand no chance at all. But most of all, Clare would know that if Galatea would appear in Pieta she would either join them or leave the Organization. She disobeyed for a reason (and Clare saw that she's a good fellow) plus Rubel made it perfectly clear that they won't have any trouble coming from her since she was far too busy staying alive by doing various dangerous tasks.

 

As for numbers 1 and 2, they would not send them and leave the base undefended against Riful and Isley (and Luciella, at the time they wouldn't know she had been killed by Rafaela).

 

So yes, escaping was a much better option, you just fail to realize it. What's more you keep bringing Galatea into this even though at this time she was on the sidelines and Lune/Renee was being trained to replace her. So at the time they didn't have a reliable eye.

 

The only viable argument you're making are the people. But honestly this doesn't convince me either. After all no Claymore goes and kills youma unless he's ordered to and because of that many people are killed. I just don't see Miria and the rest suddenly going out of their way and protecting people that might not be harmed anyway (since Org's HQ was AB's destination and it's not like people emit youki, so they wouldn't be that easily found).

 

 

Except Hysteria was not much bigger than Miria. Her size can be seen here best: http://vatoto.com/read/_/82967/claymore_v22_ch123_by_mib/18

Sure she's significantly bigger but for some reason every shot that Roxanne made plus Cassandra found their way to her (plus they hit her in a way that was fatal and somehow 2 such humongous spikes hit her plus Cassandra who had Miria closer to her) and didn't even scratch Miria. What's more, Miria somehow could parry Roxanne's attack, but an AO could not? Are you kidding me? I'm not saying she should have dodged these attacks (since the speed was too big and she probably wouldn't be able to do thing like these) but at least minimize the damage and not let herself be skewered in the worst possible way. It really was badly written by Yagi.

 

 

At the moment the organization thought Rafaela was with Gal, and Knew she could take out all of the claymores in Pieta, what they didn't know was she broke ranks and went to kill her sister. So in the organization eyes, they have Beth an awakened number 1 to defend. They have Gal for recon, and they had Rafaela for offense. Miria knew this, because of the Clair's and Jean's debrief.

 

As for the other part, AB don't fight like claymores. Claymores dodge while most AB's tank hits. That was just such an example.

[Goral]

At the moment the organization thought Rafaela was with Gal (...)

rotfl

 

Also, why are you quoting my whole post?

[Heretic]

rotfl

 

Also, why are you quoting my whole post?

 

I'm too astonished to laugh at that. I'm did they actually read the manga or just look at the pictures.

[Locomoto]

I'd like to think that she is a foolhardy person. She may have strategies but they are often drastic.