31 replies to this topic

[Slimy Fast Eel]

well, i started this thread 'cuz there are people who thinks he is omnipotent and no one in the entire world can beat him, but i know that's not true , so here people who knows more than me, can post all what they know about this topic. i'll put some information from the comments section:

from me:
about I'm GOD!
he can be killed, they only need to destroy his brain faster than his brain can process the magic for restart his body.
about I'm ultra Fucking Genius kid
he only pushed the world advancement in magic by 10 years, and the only hurdle he solved was the flight type magic. he has a big team that had been helping him develop everything he wants to do, and he only is in charge of the software development part.
about I'm one of the richest man on earth
the Company is propierty of the clan yotsuba, his father is the chairman of that company and he only works there as Silver Taurus. He isn't the richest man on earth, there are many others companies that have more money than that
about I'm all powerfull magician who can:
he had lost to many people, his master in ninjutsu kokonoe yakumo can beat him, his boss in the 101 battalion kazama and other memeber of that battalion too,

and i don't remember anymore right now. but i think he has many people who can beat him, even katsuto from the disciplinary commitee has a chance against him, tatsuya himself said he would be a tough/difficult opponent.

From pham_hoanglinh:

Spoiler

Well, 1st of all I have to say, this is a "Novel", and not many novels and mangas have reached to this point of "good logic, deep of story" like this.<br><br>And I have some disagreements with some of your points.<br>- Powerful magician: It not about one or more spell, its about what it does, and more over, he was born with this.<br>- About the genius kid, you are right, but he only solves one of the 3 great puzzle(not much different eh?), but what is wrong with this, a lot of MC is genius, at least better than "will power" - that shiet is old and every author should stop that thing.<br>- He is strong because he was trained after 5 years old, if he was weak, he should have died. Why? because the trained-to-be-guardian likes him dies alot.<br>- About lady killer, whats wrong again? Lot of girls like MC is not something like a hole of plot or st, or you never read any harem mangas?<br>- He is not rich, I have to say again, not rich . Why? because the guardian can not have property, he has money, simple because he was lent by the family to do his job (guardian of Miyuki), he has alot of money to pay for the information, because it is for the job. And the company is his father's, and he sees MC likes trash.<br>-He is not god because a lot of people can kill him.<br>-His family is not that simple, and there might be alot of monster-like likes him, they are famous and powerful before gave birth to him.<br>-He lost strong emotions, not emotion.

Quote
Tatsuya's heart did not possess the ability to "hate".
He could not feel any strong emotions like fury, despair, envy, hatred, disgust, gluttony, lust, sloth, and...... love.
Never would he forget himself in anger.
Neither would he wallow in despair.
Nor struggle with envy.
Unknown to hatred, nor known to disgust.
Or fall in love with women.
To hunger, but not gluttonous.
To arouse, but not lustful.
To tire, but not slothful.
The unique magic that only his mother possessed in the entire world erased all the strongest emotions and urges from his heart.
He did not hate his mother.
Nor was he furious.
That was because he was "unable" to enrage and "unable" to hate.
The only "emotion" they left for him was intentionally left behind to bind him to the Yotsuba Family with a chain forged of duty. Of course, this was not filial piety.

Last thing, he is no equal to any other MC, I dont say he is the best, but every MC has their own unique characteristic. Dont just freely compare them.

The only "emotion" they left for him was intentionally left behind to bind him to the Yotsuba Family with a chain forged of duty. Of course, this was not filial piety.

this is from the summary of arc 4.

Since he wasn't considered a magician, he was operated on 7 years prior, and during the operation, his emotions were lost. Only one emotion remained after the operation, and though he was able to use magic, the artificial calculation abilities granted by the processor they used was inferior than his natural ability, so they had no choice but to use him as a Guardian. Miyuki, sad at hearing this, asked if Maya was the one who operated on him, which Maya admits to. Miyuki understands that her mother, too, lost her emotions, either out of guilt or as a side effect of the operation. This was the first time Miyuki sees magic as scary.

Maya admits she is not entirely sure why that emotion remained and that she had told Tatsuya. Miyuki sensed that she was in some way frustrated with Tatsuya's lack of affection for her.


i understand from this that i was not intentionally.

Edited by Fast eel, 28 February 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[Beelz]

since this thread is asking about Tatsuya in detail i'd assume spoilers are welcome

Nope Tatsuya can't be omnipotent because he can still be killed its just there is nobody who has the ability to do so... They would have to destroy his brain before his auto-restoration could take effect and well thats pritty damn fast asoon as his "combat" ability is effected he will auto-restore his body to a state prior to recieving said damage... So in that reguard he isn't omnipotent but when you combine all of his abilities Elemental sight, Decomposion, Restoration, Flash cast ect he becomes pritty close to omnipotent because well killing him with magic is out of the question... unless they can get past both his Elemental Sight and Decomposion and if they do get threw these then they need to destroy his brain before it starts auto-restoration. So far we have not met anybody who can acheive this feat especially when Miyuki removes the seal binding his powers. Something that could kill him is a nuclear warhead but thats assuming he didn't decompose it before it goes BOOM.

I like to think of Tatsuya as a genius but just a cut above the other geniuses.

That should about cover it although if i did get anything wrong please tell me.

Edited by Beelz, 28 February 2013 - 04:15 AM.

[Xenoevil]

He may not be a god but really, who can stop him from just nuking the shit out of anyone he wants. And no, his sister keeping his power in check doesnt count as it's a plot device because his power is too "dangerous".

How is pushing technology by 10 years not a amazing accomplishment that makes one be considered as an ultra genius. And pretty much all the geniuses making the fusion reactor or whatever comes begging tatsuya, the ultra genius for his help.

I havent gone through enough to see that fights with those guys but do they fight tatsuya unrestrained? Otherwise it doesnt mean anything.

Edited by Xenoevil, 28 February 2013 - 03:56 AM.

[Slimy Fast Eel]

well, if someone put a bullet in his magic processing zone of the brain he's done for. like the time one sniper put a bullet right through his heart, he only reacted after the bullet was out

[Beelz]

well, if someone put a bullet in his magic processing zone of the brain he's done for. like the time one sniper put a bullet right through his heart, he only reacted after the bullet was out

Thats not quite right... the shot was meant to hit Tatsuya's heart... he realised it was too late to dodge/decompose the bullet so he shifted his body so the bullet went threw his lung. (unless the Baka-Tsuki translations where off.)

I havent gone through enough to see that fights with those guys but do they fight tatsuya unrestrained? Otherwise it doesnt mean anything.

I don't think anybody has come close... In most of Tatsuya's fights he is holding back... The first time he releases the seal on his power is in Volume 7 of the LN and i think the only other time he releases the seal is for a fight with another "strategic"(probably spelt wrong) Class Magician (although the volume for that isn't out yet so i've only read the web summary and i'm not sure about how in depth that goes to know wether he beat her by a land slide or not.) or i might be going loopy its been awhile since i read the web summaries so not totally sure about it. Anyway so far we haven't seen anybody match up to Tatsuya when he becomes the literal personification of a Shinigami... Although Tatsuya is quite the monster even when he holds back.

Edited by Beelz, 28 February 2013 - 04:26 AM.

[kosmaj]

Let me refer to the emotions of the main character. It is illogical to say that he may feel only a weaker emotions. He can love, but only a little. He may be angry, but only a little. What does that mean? Does this mean that he will be sorry when the dog dies, but not when a friend dies? Does this mean that he will be able to envy someone new pen, but will not be jealous of having a normal family? Perhaps the author has created a list of weak and strong emotions? An extremely interesting theory, which is completely hypocritical. Hunger, fatigue, physical pain are not emotions, are states in which the body is. For these states correspond midbrain reticular formation (if i'm wrong please tell me) located in the dorsal part of the brain stem. Which would mean that Tatsuya is at most animal (it will be interesting when the hero will be in need of sex resulting from the mating instinct)
Retired intelligence agents say that a man who seems to be without emotion, in fact, is either mentally ill or he can well control nerves. In the latter case, after many years suppressed emotions resound again in the form of different syndromes. That's why professional army soldiers after finishing the service must go to a psychologist, who will "switch them off" in order to be able to live a normal life in society.
Respectfully Kosmaj

[Slimy Fast Eel]

is this true? a haven read it anywhere, can someone tell me if the emotion left in tatsuya was really intentional

by soranokira

iirc the emotion left in Tatsuya was actually intention. They had intended to make him into a Guardian from the start of the experiment, they had removed all emotions because it was deemed to be unnecessary (it may be a necessity of the experiment), but left him with one vital emotion which is care/love for his sister (not male/female love, but protection love) in order for him to be bound to his duty as a Guardian of Miyuki's. Maya also thinks that Miyuki wouldn't betray the Yotsuba, but in truth she may very well will because of her love for her brother. Their mother does see Tatsuya as a failure hence she actually offered her son, a failure, for the experiment. Whether Tatsuya's father thinks of Tatsuya as a failure or not is not certain, but he certainly does think of him as a tool like the Yotsuba, and is also scared of him at the same time, knowing full well of his strength as a Guardian.

Edited by Fast eel, 01 March 2013 - 01:44 AM.

[Azneas]

As far as I know, they never say whether his devotion towards Miyuki was intentional or not. However, its probably intentional (doesn't make sense why they would accidentally overlook the only emotion that is keeping him from leaving the Yotsuba)

Also, I believe the greatest problem with Tatsuya is he's essentially too powerful. His toolset is significantly smaller than that of other magicians. Also, he may be amazing at combat, but he wouldn't be able to do something like moving an egg from point A to point B (using the example in the manga).

As for Tatsuya vs the strategic class magician, it wasn't really a full fight.

Spoiler

1. Tatsuya didn't have his seal released
2. He wasn't really trying to kill the magician
3. The magician was trying to take him alive (said magician was aiming for his limbs and limiting her power)
4. The magician made a somewhat amateur mistake and was distracted by talking
5. The magician didn't know that Tatsuya could regenerate and was surprised when Tatsuya attacked with a "missing" limb.

[nar]

Let me refer to the emotions of the main character. It is illogical to say that he may feel only a weaker emotions. He can love, but only a little. He may be angry, but only a little. What does that mean? Does this mean that he will be sorry when the dog dies, but not when a friend dies? Does this mean that he will be able to envy someone new pen, but will not be jealous of having a normal family? Perhaps the author has created a list of weak and strong emotions? An extremely interesting theory, which is completely hypocritical. Hunger, fatigue, physical pain are not emotions, are states in which the body is. For these states correspond midbrain reticular formation (if i'm wrong please tell me) located in the dorsal part of the brain stem. Which would mean that Tatsuya is at most animal (it will be interesting when the hero will be in need of sex resulting from the mating instinct)

Well its stated in the book that Tatsuya does have brain damage. Saying that he only feels weaker emotions actually makes a lot more sense biologically then only being able to feel a set of emotions. Of course, I've never seen a case of a person with weakened emotions. There are many cases of total loss, this isn't due to damage wiping out emotions one by one but from a single point of damage entirely disrupting the ability to feel emotions like lesions in the AIC of the Hippocampus or the VMPC of the Prefrontal Cortex. If instead of a total lesion it was some kind of damage that just inhibited the strength of these areas or others involved with all emotions like the Amygdala, it would make sense that even if your brain is trying to express a great deal of emotion, the damage caps off the expression so you can feel angry, but only to the point of casual anger towards a stranger, even if its someone doing something very personal to piss you off. This also can explain the lack of expression for hunger and such, the Amygdala helps handles both reading bodily reactions for emotions and bodily reactions and needs for other things like hunger and rest.

Against Lina though, I'd say she could probably kill Tatsuya if they were both going all out. Tatsuya's casting spell is insanely fast but Lina's spell literally defies the laws of physics to hit the target super fast and Tatsuya himself thinks it could do damage fast enough to outrace his regeneration. So if Lina went for a killing blow on the first shot she probably would win since Tatsuya's regeneration can't bring things back to life if it has already died.

[kosmaj]

nar Thank you for a lot of useful information. Just one more question, whether, despite the damage to the amygdala, he could still be a security guard? it seemed to me that it is a disqualifying injury, but I'm not a doctor.

Edited by kosmaj, 10 March 2013 - 12:29 PM.

[Rebel Bonhart]

It wasn't a spell... Lina used an oped weapon (forgot the name) lent to her by her superiors from USA... And yes Tatsuya was holding back in  their every fight. He didn't want to reveal his Decomposition to her. 

Edited by bonhart, 12 April 2013 - 08:32 PM.

[supamoogle4]

He definitely is overwhelmingly powerful, but so are many other magicians - there are many abilities prone to abuse, and many could kill him if the context is right. We've only been introduced to a couple of the strategic class magicians thus far anyway (well i hv not read past v8c15).

 

Though I wonder if the ritual to make Tatsuya a more generalized magician was done on purpose to limit his powers. So rather than doing that for family honour and etc, that was done because Tatsuya is so overpowered he could easily destroy the entire world if he really wanted to - what if he got dumped and went mad.

 

Probably not though. Volume 8 Chapter 14 with his mother did terrible things to my heart though.

Edited by supamoogle4, 13 April 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[kosmaj]

supamoogle4 I do not think that there is someone more powerful than him. The LN indicates that the casting time of "decomposition" is less than a phenomenon of the shot, or about 0.0015 seconds. I remind you that the distance from the target does not affect the casting time and magic activation. So for someone to defend himself, he/she must have a faster reaction of 0.0015 seconds. That means that anyone who fights against him, must kill him in time of 0.0014 seconds. If not, bye bye. And I forgot that you do not see the activation phase of the spell because he ignores it thanks to Flash cast. And the average human reaction time is 0.215 seconds. Miyuki casts the spell (which performs all calculations), at the time of 0.1 seconds. Wizards are just superhumans. Now i know why this friction between, magicians and normal humans.
And I know why Main character irritates me. In any other story we have explained how a hero draws his superhuman abilities. For example, signed a pact with the devil / death / witch (Death Note / Code Geass), is the son of some god (legend of tyr / Thor), an alien or had contact with aliens (Tenchi Muyo Ryo-Okhi/Tekkaman), comes from a different dimension (Isekai no Seikishi monogatari), etc.. Here it does not. Over and over again repeated that the main character is a mediocrity, belittling him, it is ridiculous. I always thought that the Japanese people are very intelligent, but this comic shows that in addition to Tatsuya and a group of 20 people, all the rest are completely idiots. I do not know what is your reaction when you realize that the man whom you do not like is a world champion in MMA. No, do not tell. I'll try to guess ... You continue to insult him, below him, you try to force him to fight? No!? After all, half the characters in this novel does just that. Look how stupid they are. Ahh, I forgot. Author created them with his logic.

I really would not mind if the main character was treated like a god, and he was one. Everything would be logical. Or if they leave him his superhuman abilities to fight and not to make him an ultra, mega, super-genius, but "just" smart killer (dendrobates). Or vice versa, let him be ultra-mega-genius and make his sister, not him, a killing machine. All balanced.

Now I understand why the author wants to end the story on the stage of the school. Can you imagine how powerful opponents have to be, to be a challenge for him? Let me try to imagine the further continuation of the story.

After graduation, the main character joins the pantheon of god (he takes his rightful place), and as a new god-emperor lead humanity against the dangers of the Warp ... Errr, maybe better I stop my thoughts.

[zer0xsoul]

Did I miss something? attacking with a limb?!?!? wtf did I do when I read this, daydreaming?

[Midgardsormr]

emm a little oot,

 

@kosmaj how about onepunch man lol?

just an ordinary human who train with normal method...

and i can't imagine just how strong one must to be able to defeat saitama while dodging his one punch style...

[Caminante]

I'm getting a little numb with all of the information above...   but...

If Tatsuya isn't omnipotent, then... is he impotent? or neither of them?

Is it possible be in the center of this harem and not be able to react?

I think there is some information in the light novels that we are missing in the mango...

[CharlieAL]

The only one who can take tatsuya out for good is miyuki, whith her special ability that frezzes the mind, pretty much like a vegetable, he'll become a sack of meat.
I think is called something like nephilim, the ability of course.

[Rebel Bonhart]

It's called "Cocytus"

http://mahouka-koukou-no-rettousei.wikia.com/wiki/Template:SM_Cocytus

[CharlieAL]

Yep, that's the one!

[Namorax]

@kosmaj:
Isn't it that most people simply don't know the full extent of his power? After all, he goes to great lengths to hide them. From reading the novels, it appears that nobody outside the military knows that he's awfully strong and even the military doesn't seem to know all about him, with the household (which our MC has to serve) keeping things secret to the outsie world. And then there are secrets only the family head knows of... At least thats my impression.

 

It is true that he holds back in almost every of his fights. I kinda wonder how the current #1 magican of Japan would fare against him or his aunt... considering his total restoration ability, his decomposition skill and insane casting time... it feels like the catch is still missing. Missing or detached emotions doesnt really cut it. The series is really enjoable and I expect that this will be made into an anime. Hopefully a serious one without fanservice and/or fillers >_>.

 

As for his emotions: my impression is that he can still feel them, but they are so detached that they could just as well be described to him by another person. He kinda knows what they are but he profiles/analizes them with logic, which causes the (funny) situations where he's unsure how to react "properly".

 

PS: I kinda expected him to be some kind of artificial human/golem/human computer. At the very least that he died as a child and his family tried bringing him back which caused the changes i him. And once they started to realize what he has become they tried to "chain" him as best/soon as they could.