19 replies to this topic

[Cacuu]

So, I've been reading Kubera for a while and I had made a few presumptions about the so called power of the name that no one knows what it is.
in my opinion, the power of the name is actually a way which a human turns into a god, by using his/her own magic.
as for our Leez, every time she uses hoti kubera for example, she'll slowly drain the god's power. I feel it's that way because of that part where Kubera (*god*) says "at that time, I wasn't aware of the power of the name's power' (*not exact words, I don't remember it well*)
and also, I think Asha has something peculiar, she may also have the power of the name, under the name of Visnu, he dissapeared, Agni thinks once that Asha has an insight, which is a characteristic only found in gods, she also uses hoti visnu, even though it's effect isn't shown, its apparently the ability of "creation". and she avoids to use this spell at most times, but she uses it when Yuta attacks her.
she also refuses teaching Leez spells and makes a shocked face when Ran proposes the hoti Kubera spell.
but of course this is only speculations and I have no means to prove what I just wrote.
It's all a gut feeling I had. lol
What do you guys think about it?

[truepurple]

I have a nearly opposite set of theories I posted awhile back http://vatoto.com/forums/topic/9945-power-of-names-and-who-is-kubera/

But to sum up the parts pertinent to this thread. IMO Leez is not fully human. And no, a full human can not turn into a god IMO. Slowly drain WHAT god's power? You mean Unnamed? I couldn't disagree more, the power comes from the name, and from her blood/ancestry, not from Unnamed. If anything, I think Unnamed gets power from the name with it combined with Kubera Leez.

Also, the end of the latest chapter shows that Kubera/Leez's father is pretty special. His name is on a powerful neutral bow, as its true owner and once only person able to use it before it was altered. And we know that the bow requires crazy stamina to fire (kind of like a girl we know who wears a bracer that requires crazy stamina) Which suggests he is not fully human (or perhaps not human at all?) which of course makes Kubera/Leez not fully human.

Edited by truepurple, 04 January 2013 - 01:04 PM.

[Cacuu]

the "Unnamed god" as discussed on your thread, used to be the god Kubera, but then, for some reason, he isn't Kubera anymore, and refuses to accept a name. why? I think that, also, fits in my theory, since the name "Kubera" is now Leez's. I don't know how it happened, it just is like that. not everyone has the power of the name by just having the name of the god, since there are a few people called Agni on his city.
but yes, Kubera's father is definitely misterious, maybe he has something to do with it all. No, he has to be something to do with it.
I personally think your theory is, indeed, the complete opposite of mine, and beign like that, I'll stand my terms, I still think my theory is a bit more right.
no offense intended.

If Kubera's not a human, I don't think she is a half or a quarter, maybe she's related somehow to a god. Or something that may get shown further into the manhwa that we still know nothing about.

Edited by Cacuu, 04 January 2013 - 04:30 PM.

[Euodiachloris]

Dear Lord: keep it simple.

Leez = the one you're currently calling Kubera (yes, we all know who she is, really, but she's using the cover name, so we can, too).
God!Kubera = currently Unnamed Brand (but, most in-universe people don't know that, and will still call him "Kubera": and, it's always going to be fun watching his grumpy reaction).
Once Leez accepts that, yes, she has the power of the name, then I'd be tempted to go all Leez!Kubera to differentiate between the two, if required.

For now... whatever power is within the name is still maturing in Leez. Yet, the raw power dynamo, abilities, items, identity (as in, [glorious] personality, memories, gender, etc.) and god-nature still belong with God!Kubera. And, the things he did whilst still in the possession of the name don't seem to have shifted over to Leez at all, except by him giving her one of them voluntarily and refusing her the information of who he was straight, so she couldn't ask him to remove it.

Leez already has whatever the Power of the Name will become. The rest? Looks like he'd had to give it her, if she can meet the requirements to take it.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 14 January 2013 - 09:29 AM.

[truepurple]

No, Leez owns the name fully, right now, not unnamed, his power stems from Unnamed being a powerful being, and perhaps draining the names power indirectly from Leez. (the power difference between them is because Leez doesn't know how to access much of the names power, where as unnamed knows all the ins and outs) So there is nothing for her to take from him except information. This is the way I figure it anyway.

[Euodiachloris]

Wrongo: God!Kubera is still a god. Still in charge of Earth. And, seems about as strong as ever(ish), even with the restrictions he's under with the new rules Vishnu put in place (when he chooses to stick to most of them, that is). However, some of that could be a brave front. <shrugs> Or... just a stoic one. Mr Stoic is Stoic.

As Agni explained when he was telling Brillith about the Staff, the existence of the gods is split between all aspects of what makes them them... including the items they make. <shrugs> The Name is only one aspect of the whole package that is "Kubera". It's the label that probably helps define a lot of the rest, but... The rest of the package? Is in the hands of Grumpy, Unnamed Brand, still. The definition might be shifting, but... we're talking god-level durations, here...

Leez could, probably, take other parts of the package off his hands due to having the Name... but, she doesn't have the nature of a god. Yet. She can probably only handle bits of what she has already got, as it is. <shrugs>

Edited by Euodiachloris, 14 January 2013 - 12:24 PM.

[truepurple]

Didn't say Unnamed wasn't a god, I don't believe the name is what makes him a god. I don't know what you mean by "in charge of earth"

[Euodiachloris]

Didn't say Unnamed wasn't a god, I don't believe the name is what makes him a god. I don't know what you mean by "in charge of earth"

His jurisdiction is "Earth" -- or, to be more precise... rocky planets, and, by extension the non-human things that grow and live on them, should that occur (well, he certainly likes animals). TBH, I think Leez is reflecting the plant-side of Earth more... There doesn't seem to be a specifically Plant-orientated Nature God. <shrugs> Nor, Animal one, for that matter.

Interesting side-note: Gandhrava, for all he's all ice-and-water. seems to be the planty-one for Sura, as well. (Maybe: all green, and doesn't mind eating veggies one bit, but meat other than seafood preferred... and, Shakuntala was inordinately fond of flowers, and did grow rather quickly "doing nothing": I suspect plant-life was her trigger.) It might be one reason why God!Kubera can stand to use him the way he does. <shrugs>

For God!Kubera, the whole rock-thing extends to gravity manipulation... but, probably only while he's on planets (major guesswork). <shrugs> So, to destroy the whole package that is Kubera without getting hold of The Name first and destroying that, you've got to pulverise every ball of rock in existence and hope none reform from the dust. Sometimes, I think the gods only have power so their names can't get destroyed and, so, leave everything to Physics.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 24 April 2013 - 09:28 AM.

[smthFishy]

From another Korean web-space: http://vatoto.com/read/_/129793/dr-frost_ch44_by_the-company,

 

"A name is the beginning of a relationship."

 

Yuta: Leez, things are not working out...

Leez: Yuta...

Yuta: I don't know if you remember, but I couldn't tell you my real name. And it's is not Yuta.

Leez: Actually, I've been lying too, my real name is not Leez either...

 

And there you go. Relationships based on unreal names are bound to go awry.

[Dreamingflower]

Leez and Yuta are more likely to be an exception to that rule.

[rak n' roll]

Wrongo: God!Kubera is still a god. Still in charge of Earth. And, seems about as strong as ever(ish), even with the restrictions he's under with the new rules Vishnu put in place (when he chooses to stick to most of them, that is). However, some of that could be a brave front. <shrugs> Or... just a stoic one. Mr Stoic is Stoic.

As Agni explained when he was telling Brillith about the Staff, the existence of the gods is split between all aspects of what makes them them... including the items they make. <shrugs> The Name is only one aspect of the whole package that is "Kubera". It's the label that probably helps define a lot of the rest, but... The rest of the package? Is in the hands of Grumpy, Unnamed Brand, still. The definition might be shifting, but... we're talking god-level durations, here...

Leez could, probably, take other parts of the package off his hands due to having the Name... but, she doesn't have the nature of a god. Yet. She can probably only handle bits of what she has already got, as it is. <shrugs>

 

Makes me wonder what would happen to God!Kubera if/when Leez!Kubera starts taking ownership of his other aspects.  Naming them as hers, as it were.  I've been thinking that's the key to the transfer of power actually happening.

 

If Leez!Kubera starts thinking of it as "her" bracelet, rather than as just something she's borrowing from someone else...might such an intentional taking-on be what's necessary for the Power of the Name to transfer over?  But she would at least need to know what she's taking for herself before doing so has any significance.  

 

My theory of the moment is that Leez!Kubera won't be able to master the transcendentals of the bracelet until she takes ownership of it, and taking ownership of it means she'll gain mastery over that part of God!Kubera.  And that her mastery over that part will proportionally diminish the power that God!Kubera has left.

 

It'd be pretty cagey for Asha to play her cards that way, no?

[Euodiachloris]

If Leez!Kubera starts thinking of it as "her" bracelet, rather than as just something she's borrowing from someone else...might such an intentional taking-on be what's necessary for the Power of the Name to transfer over?  But she would at least need to know what she's taking for herself before doing so has any significance. 

Which I find really weird: he basically clamped the key/ training wheels to the remaining process around her wrist and said something like, "Atta-girl, give it a shot!  If it doesn't pan out for you, well... you're toast, and I'll just continue, anyway. Oh, and maybe I'll still kill you before it gets dangerous.  And, if it interests me to do so...", if so.

 

Weird. Weird. Weird.

Edited by Euodiachloris, 25 April 2013 - 11:33 PM.

[Arkeus]

Which I find really weird: he basically clamped the key/ training wheels to the remaining process around her wrist and said something like, "Atta-girl, give it shot!  If it doesn't pan out for you, well... you're toast, and I'll just continue, anyway. Oh, and maybe I'll still kill you before it gets dangerous.  And, if it interests me to do so...", if so.

 

Weird. Weird. Weird.

Kubera's relationship to Leeze sometimes is more remniscent of that of a Father in one of those "Raised like a lion cub" style.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if somehow Kubera, Visnu and Kali are shown not to be on opposite sides, quite.

[Marim]

For me God Kubera seems like a person who values talent very much O_O (SERIOUSLY....... that's really out of character ) he's like:,,I saw your potential today, so I won't kill you even if I ordered those Suras going after you and made some stuff happen etc." <<< WTF?!! Well the name belonged to him, perhaps he believes, that he should decide owner of the name by himself, even if he lost his name long time ago.

[Dreamingflower]

God Kubera makes no sense. He already found Leez and he has no interest in killing her anymore. Maybe he's using those Sura so Leez can become stronger, man what a jerk. Well gods are supposed to hate/ dislike Sura, So using them so that Leez can become stronger by slaughtering them wouldn't be that surprising. Leez wouldn't be that happy with that plan though. 

[Euodiachloris]

God Kubera makes no sense. He already found Leez and he has no interest in killing her anymore. Maybe he's using those Sura so Leez can become stronger, man what a jerk. Well gods are supposed to hate/ dislike Sura, So using them so that Leez can become stronger by slaughtering them wouldn't be that surprising. Leez wouldn't be that happy with that plan though. 

Gods are also notorious for not giving you a casting vote in something very close to your heart/ being, even if you do get something else you might want. Mind the catch.

[battradio]

God Kubera makes no sense. He already found Leez and he has no interest in killing her anymore. Maybe he's using those Sura so Leez can become stronger, man what a jerk. Well gods are supposed to hate/ dislike Sura, So using them so that Leez can become stronger by slaughtering them wouldn't be that surprising. Leez wouldn't be that happy with that plan though. 

 

It must make sense to Kubera & Currygom or they would be doing all this .If the plot wasn't a Terresect  wrapped in a collapsing Mobis loop cloaked in an enigma and carried off in Klein's basket  we wouldn't be interested near as much .It may be as simple as he only needs one being to replace him and all the others whom have part of the name  must be eradicated before this can happen , and Kalavinka , Maruna and Yuta will have to come together to bestow it to Kubera Leez .

Edited by battradio, 27 April 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[smthFishy]

I remember Mizura a whle back had a highlander theory of the "Power of the Name", which I thought was so cruel at the time. Come to think of it, this might be in fact be the final goal - to obtain the immortality of the Gods, the vigor / mana regeneration of the human, and something of the Nastikas all in one Name. It's possible that the Names were broken up - and we have the game of who can collect all the pieces. Currently it appears that the human faction has collected the Astika name, and Yuta or his sister might possibly have the collectible Nastika name. And *Gasp* Asha might have the collectible Human name.

[Boggyb]

Under that scenario, what is Kali's motivation to get involved? If her goal is to permanently kill the other Primeval Gods (see creation of the Sword of Re), how does that help? 

[Mizura]

Aww, why did you have to bump this? I wanted to create a brand new thread detailing everything we know so far as soon as chapter 2-78 comes out (because there's a big spoiler there). xD

 

Well, I'll probably still make the new thread then. There's a lot to recap. ^^